View Full Version : 6.7 Destruction
Just recently lost the bottom end of my 6.7. My truck is in the 900+ hp range and and I'm in the process of rebuilding.If there is anyone in the know of how much piston to valve clearance is needed,are preferred i would greatly appreciate some advice.Here is a pic of the drivers side view.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Official 68RFE Suncoast Test Truck http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101112_154450.jpg
NEsmoker
12-04-2010, 08:09 PM
Sorry man, but thats neat how the push rod is sitting.
Joesixpack
12-04-2010, 08:19 PM
Outstanding.....I'm thinking you got lots of clearance on a few, bit tight on the others.
Yea it was a very interesting ride to say the least.I didn't even have to take the motor mount bolts out to pull the motor,it just came right out with the mounts still attached to the truck.
Outstanding.....I'm thinking you got lots of clearance on a few, bit tight on the others.
HA HA that's a good one.
Joesixpack
12-04-2010, 08:29 PM
I don't like seeing the big ends of some billet rods pulled apart, stuck a piston or two?
I don't like seeing the big ends of some billet rods pulled apart, stuck a piston or two?
Sorry, maybe i should have been a little more clear. This was stock rods and I'm going back with billet.
Joesixpack
12-04-2010, 09:12 PM
Fifty thou gets kicked around for clearance.
BFD99
12-04-2010, 09:15 PM
Wow!
So this was from stock rod breakage?
EPA Violator
12-04-2010, 09:36 PM
Ronnie. What pistons u using?
So this was from stock rod breakage?
Yes,all but number six.Cylinder walls and pistons looked great except for the cracks from the rods breaking and hitting the bottom of the skirts.One piston did manage to fall into the bottom end and roll around with 5 rods though.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101112_154427.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101112_154412.jpg
Ronnie. What pistons u using?
Those were stock and had 110000 hard miles on them.Since they looked perfect i have decided to go back with stockers and have them coated,after all this is just my daily driver/work truck.
Fifty thou gets kicked around for clearance.
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
BanjoDiesel
12-04-2010, 11:48 PM
Just out of curiosity, what were you doing to cause that to happen? Thats crazy!
Just out of curiosity, what were you doing to cause that to happen? Thats crazy!
I was doing about 75mph and rolled into the throttle,Keep in mind i had just left from suncoast converters about five hours prior to this happening.I have never seen 90psi boost on my truck until the comp 68RFE tranny.I ended up getting to 110mph when she let go.Here is a not so good video of the easy throttle pull i made before the destruction.The first part is real bad as i was trying to get it to show up on my droid,but at the end you will be able to see the boost at the top drive is in the middle and you cant see the 480 on the bottom.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/th_VID_20101105_222306.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/?action=view¤t=VID_20101105_222306.mp4)
wideopen
12-05-2010, 12:03 AM
Wow! Holy Massive Carnage!
[QUOTE=rjp;1303294]I was doing about 75mph and rolled into the throttle,Keep in mind i had just left from suncoast converters about five hours prior to this happening.I have never seen 90psi boost on my truck until the comp 68RFE tranny.I ended up getting to 110mph when she let go.Here is a not so good video of the easy throttle pull i made before the destruction.The first part is real bad as i was trying to get it to show up on my droid,but at the end you will be able to see the boost at the top drive is in the middle and you cant see the 480 on the bottom.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/th_VID_20101105_222306.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/?action=view¤t=VID_20101105_222306.mp4)
Its not posting as a video.Cant figure out why.
Oh well,sorry for the Dbl post.Ill try to figure it out later.
Scary picture, expecially when building a 6.7.
Big Swole
12-05-2010, 11:22 AM
I know this is gonna sound like a stupid comment but,
DAY-UM!! That makes even ME Proud!!!!!!
Good Job on that one!!!!
"DRIVE IT LIKE YOU SWOLED IT!!"
^^^ Yes you DID!! ^^^
LOL
Good luck with the new build!!
Joesixpack
12-05-2010, 11:26 AM
X2.....I've had a 6.7 on the floor of the shop for two years now, still just not sure how I want to go with it.
rjp.....I see you deal with Brown's, I surprised they didn't school you on the rods? They were blowing sides out of the 6.7's before anyone I think, just forget what they were getting up to, but that bit of bore and stroke is just death for the same PM rod.
Might think about shaving some compression if you plan on the 900 and above. Your crank will thank you later.
X2.....I've had a 6.7 on the floor of the shop for two years now, still just not sure how I want to go with it.
rjp.....I see you deal with Brown's, I surprised they didn't school you on the rods? They were blowing sides out of the 6.7's before anyone I think, just forget what they were getting up to, but that bit of bore and stroke is just death for the same PM rod.
Might think about shaving some compression if you plan on the 900 and above. Your crank will thank you later.
Well actually Erick and i had this very talk before i left for FT Walton Beach.I had a issue with my compound set up since day one with a loud squeal and some funny boost issues.We finally figured out the problem and it really woke the truck up.At this time i was still on the test tranny with the big drum and though it was bad ass but little did i know there was another 20psi of boost to be made with the comp tranny i have now.Erick told me before i left that rods were going to be my next project and he was right, i just didn't think it was going to be that soon.Just for the sake of knowing i made about 25 pulls on the dyno and 200 are so wot runs between the install and when it blew.I am guesstimating 900+hp from the info i got on the dyno jet dyno.I could not light the turbos as low as i would have liked and max boost was very low compared to what i seen on the street.Turbos lit at 23/34 and max boost was around 64/66 range,on the street i can see 90psi and the truck pulled very hard while it was at that pressure.Here is a chart of a few of the runs.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101105_110437.jpg
I know this is gonna sound like a stupid comment but,
DAY-UM!! That makes even ME Proud!!!!!!
Good Job on that one!!!!
"DRIVE IT LIKE YOU SWOLED IT!!"
^^^ Yes you DID!! ^^^
LOL
Good luck with the new build!!
Thanks,i always try to do my best even if it is in the name of destruction.I have read quite a few of your carnage stories,sounds like I'm not the only one that has taken one for the team.
Soup Nazi
12-05-2010, 12:17 PM
The piston spray pattern is really nice.
The 6.7 really needs rods past about 800-900 HP, IMO. Heavier pistons and rod stroke seem to me, part of the reason.
The piston spray pattern is really nice.
The 6.7 really needs rods past about 800-900 HP, IMO. Heavier pistons and rod stroke seem to me, part of the reason.
Thanks Don,i really like the f-4's and they seem to work very well with my set up.
gunracer1
12-06-2010, 09:09 AM
that 6.7 will never have the guts to do that again, DAMN
Signature600
12-06-2010, 11:29 AM
Glad to hear the 68RFE is at least holding up well...I was kinda worried about the longevity on mine even stock:D
Suck to have that kinda engine carnage though...looks like maybe you can salvage the top end at least!
Chris
Looking at the dyno graph it's easy to see why this kind of thing happens. I'd kick the electronics manufacturers in the nuts for creating the problem.
cquestad
12-06-2010, 12:40 PM
yep...holy fuel down low!
2000 7.3 6speed
12-06-2010, 02:19 PM
your got yourself some very expensive but cool looking paper weights now. that sucks
so how is the rebuild coming along?
Glad to hear the 68RFE is at least holding up well...I was kinda worried about the longevity on mine even stock:D
Suck to have that kinda engine carnage though...looks like maybe you can salvage the top end at least!
Chris
The comp Suncoast 68RFE is a whole different animal than any other.5th and 6th gear is now the wholly **** gears.Granit i didn't get much run time on it before the bottom end gave up i did manage 700 miles of many WOT runs that should have caused a issue if there was to be one.
Looking at the dyno graph it's easy to see why this kind of thing happens. I'd kick the electronics manufacturers in the nuts for creating the problem.
Yea,when it did finally light at 2300 it would spool so hard and fast it would literally run away from the load and quit spooling at about 64psi.If that makes any since.
so how is the rebuild coming along?
Got all the parts and started the assembly today.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_150416.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_141623.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_141640.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_142034.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_141930.jpg
WUnderwood
12-06-2010, 07:43 PM
going back with stock pistons?
going back with stock pistons?
Yes i am,The reason i choose to go this route is because the original ones had 106,000 miles on them with 60,000+ running hot tunes with modified injectors.They have seen 1600+deg more than i can remember and looked like new.There was some decking of the block and a little work was done on the pistons but all in all they are stockers.Cant see fixing something that s not broke.
jsf350
12-06-2010, 08:55 PM
very nice rods... price?
what was the turbo/twin boost problem and what did you do to fix it?
AWESOME CARNAGE!!!!!!
Nice rods.:rockwoot:
Thanks,i had a hard time deciding on witch brand.Thanks to Erick he just sent them to me and sent me a bill and said i owe him XXXX.No but really they are so nice i almost don't want to put them in,until i look at the carnage and think about my 110mph ride of a life time.(Them *****es are going in)
very nice rods... price?
what was the turbo/twin boost problem and what did you do to fix it?
AWESOME CARNAGE!!!!!!
My boost would climb to 65ish and hold on my 66.My 480 would climb to 38ish and immediately drop 10 to 15 psi depending on the load.This happened at WOT and would do this every time,it would also have a jet engine type squeal when this drop in pressure took place.There were two issues found,one was the wast gate plate on the 66 was leaking and the other was the exhaust flange on the 66 had cracks on all four corners of the exhaust housing inlet that went past the gasket sealing area.
Under a normal smooth acceleration from 0 to WOT there would be no squeal and boost would climb to 42psi on the 480 and 70psi on the 66,this was also on the previous tranny.The comp Suncoast tranny will put the power to the ground and build 90psi.
Joesixpack
12-06-2010, 09:19 PM
The destroyed block was decked?
jsf350
12-06-2010, 09:24 PM
was it a htt 66 turbo? each of mine have had wastegate issues- but they have taken care of it/ been real good
so glad the trans is holding-- my buddy has had alot of issues with his -done 3 times now i think
The destroyed block was decked?
NO,it was completely stock.The head was decked ported and polished by way of the exhaust runners and threw the valve ports.Also had it fire ringed back in the day.The same head will be used on this build with the only changes being drilled and taped freeze plugs in the head and pined freeze plugs on the outside along with resurfacing again and reseting and enshrouding the valves.I lost one in the head around 75k miles are so and the truck now has 106k,what a freaking mess.
I have all of the specs and flow numbers saved just in case these changes show improvement over the previous setup.
was it a htt 66 turbo? each of mine have had wastegate issues- but they have taken care of it/ been real good
so glad the trans is holding-- my buddy has had alot of issues with his -done 3 times now i think
II Silver Bullet,it had low miles with this issue.The guys were top notch about it and changed it out with no issues though.
srt cummins
12-06-2010, 10:18 PM
This makes me want to do rods so bad. Its just not in my budget. Maybe a built bottom end would be better then dual cp3s for now.
Joesixpack
12-06-2010, 10:54 PM
The new block has been decked some then? Final compression ratio? Not sure if I'd raise compression much even with the billet rods. Go ahead and post photo's of the build, the tech's dig it.
The new block has been decked some then? Final compression ratio? Not sure if I'd raise compression much even with the billet rods. Go ahead and post photo's of the build, the tech's dig it.
0.020 over and yes the block was decked as well as the pistons.
Joesixpack
12-06-2010, 11:19 PM
Good stuff, nice to see that trans holding. Some hope after all for the 68FRE.
Signature600
12-07-2010, 08:14 AM
The comp Suncoast 68RFE is a whole different animal than any other.5th and 6th gear is now the wholly **** gears.Granit i didn't get much run time on it before the bottom end gave up i did manage 700 miles of many WOT runs that should have caused a issue if there was to be one.
If you don't mind a bit of a de-rail...how long did you punish the "stock" setup??
Chris
Nice to see someone doing a carefull build instead of a tightwad special.
If you don't mind a bit of a de-rail...how long did you punish the "stock" setup??
ChrisThe very first stocker that i only ran a super chips on lasted about 28k miles.I then had a rebuilt dodge (REMAN) as that is what they all are and it made it 1 week.They replaced that one and it went 3 days.I then contacted Ron @ Suncoast and bought one of the first built units that they offered.It did fine for 10k miles are so until i added a different tuner and so on and so on.This is when the break and fix show started back a few years ago.The stock inputs are good up to 550ish,anything after that its just a matter of time and the right wheel hope and bang,a good steady hard pull at 700 will twist one off also.
Nice to see someone doing a carefull build instead of a tightwad special.
I just wish i knew a little more of the numbers side of things,So many things to alter and no idea of what works best.Oh well i guess thats the fun of it.
joelc79
12-07-2010, 07:51 PM
I wish you luck, sweet re-build. Any pics of the truck?
I wish you luck, sweet re-build. Any pics of the truck?
I have a few videos but cant seem to make them work,must be because of my post count are something.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/dodge67032.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/dodge67031.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/dodge67035.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/upload015.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/upload017.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/c675b254.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/SourceAutomotivecompundPics001.jpg
And this is the hart transplant donor.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/9bb1be0b.jpg
jsf350
12-07-2010, 08:43 PM
nice truck
WUnderwood
12-07-2010, 09:14 PM
here is a link to rjp's photobucket account
http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/
The very first video was one with the jacked up 66 that had cracks.This was in 4x4 and you can hear the awful squeal towards the end of third gear.
here is a link to rjp's photobucket account
http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/
Thanks for the help,something different here that i am not accustom to.Ill figure it out one day.
Got all the parts and started the assembly today.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_150416.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_141623.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_141640.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_142034.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_141930.jpg
very nice! glad to see that there is some headway being done. you going to be heading back this way for the open house in the spring time?
chris lang
12-08-2010, 06:56 PM
Just recently lost the bottom end of my 6.7. My truck is in the 900+ hp range and and I'm in the process of rebuilding.If there is anyone in the know of how much piston to valve clearance is needed,are preferred i would greatly appreciate some advice.Here is a pic of the drivers side view.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Official 68RFE Suncoast Test Truck http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101112_154450.jpg
well theres your problem right there...
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101210_140030.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101210_135958.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101210_135924.jpg
Going back together.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101210_135751.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101210_135726.jpg
Big Blue24
12-12-2010, 03:14 AM
Did you tack-weld the freeze plugs? If so, sounds easier than drilling and pinning them in.
Did you tack-weld the freeze plugs? If so, sounds easier than drilling and pinning them in.
They are all drilled and pined.I did not pin the ones that are accessible so that if one needed to blow it could and still be changed without to much of a hassle.
jsf350
12-12-2010, 11:10 AM
coming along nicely
aer212
12-12-2010, 12:04 PM
They are all drilled and pined.I did not pin the ones that are accessible so that if one needed to blow it could and still be changed without to much of a hassle.
Some pictures of the drilled and pinned plugs? I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to do mine. Are you going to clip the water pump?
coming along nicely
Thanks!!!!!
Some pictures of the drilled and pinned plugs? I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to do mine. Are you going to clip the water pump?
Here is the head drilled and tapped.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101212_130743.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101212_130756.jpg
This is the only one that you can really see,i will get some others later.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101206_141930.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101212_133112.jpg
This will be the last of the carnage pics as it will be in the scrap iron pile tomorrow.Everything has been taken off that was usable and the rest is just junk.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101212_113612.jpg
This one is from the good side and really gives the term windowing a block justice as the light shines through.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101212_113631.jpg
And last one will be the one rod that made it threw the wreck with a slight bend.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101212_141116.jpg
jsf350
12-12-2010, 04:10 PM
if you dont mind- how much was the 6.7 block?
M_Thomas07
12-12-2010, 04:40 PM
RJP i don't know if you have kids or not, but if so, the age old saying about daddy not being a window maker does not apply in your case. LOL
Some pictures of the drilled and pinned plugs? I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to do mine. Are you going to clip the water pump?
No clipping here.I have my own beliefs about this.The pump is not the issue,it is not capable of building enough pressure to blow a freeze plug.It is a combination of aerated coolant and heat witch always happens close to the area where the most heat is gathered.(TURBOS)I will be using the kit from Shane to keep the that pressure equalized and under control.
So my theory is the pump aerates the coolant under high rpms witch i guess you could say its a pump issue, but not a issue that we could really do anything about except for maybe slowing it down witch may hurt the amount of flow needed to cool.Once this aerated coolant is made it tends to migrate to the back of the block,the way the gasket is constructed it only allows very little coolant to come up in the front of the head where it then gets more flow in each cylinder as you continue to the back of the head.All of these passage ways just add to the aeration that is already induced by the pump.So now you have air in the system witch is now in the rear of the head and just so happens to flow right by the exhaust ports along with the exhaust housing of the turbo that is right next to the #4 and #5 cylinders.Steam has now been made in the back that expands faster than what is going on in the front witch then blows a freeze plug.Any how this is my thoughts witch some may not agree but until someone proves it any different I'm sticking with the above.This is why i went with Shanes bypass as i think its the best option today.
if you dont mind- how much was the 6.7 block?
I lost a engine in one of my c&c trucks and bought a pull out for 5k,i then bought the engine out of my truck for 600.00 bucks,this was the core.So i had a whole engine to work with,all i used was the block and running gear from the old engine as the crank was no good.
RJP i don't know if you have kids or not, but if so, the age old saying about daddy not being a window maker does not apply in your case. LOL
Trust me i would much rather this had not happened.
aer212
12-12-2010, 05:24 PM
No clipping here.I have my own beliefs about this.The pump is not the issue,it is not capable of building enough pressure to blow a freeze plug.It is a combination of aerated coolant and heat witch always happens close to the area where the most heat is gathered.(TURBOS)I will be using the kit from Shane to keep the that pressure equalized and under control.
So my theory is the pump aerates the coolant under high rpms witch i guess you could say its a pump issue, but not a issue that we could really do anything about except for maybe slowing it down witch may hurt the amount of flow needed to cool.Once this aerated coolant is made it tends to migrate to the back of the block,the way the gasket is constructed it only allows very little coolant to come up in the front of the head where it then gets more flow in each cylinder as you continue to the back of the head.All of these passage ways just add to the aeration that is already induced by the pump.So now you have air in the system witch is now in the rear of the head and just so happens to flow right by the exhaust ports along with the exhaust housing of the turbo that is right next to the #4 and #5 cylinders.Steam has now been made in the back that expands faster than what is going on in the front witch then blows a freeze plug.Any how this is my thoughts witch some may not agree but until someone proves it any different I'm sticking with the above.This is why i went with Shanes bypass as i think its the best option today.
When I brought my head in to get re machined for a different side mount the guy asked me if I knew what caused freeze plugs to blow. I said well from everything I read and understand, the cause is coolant pressure. He said nope, what causes it is cylinder pressure getting into the coolant passages. Otherwise known as a blown headgasket or the head lifting. Any thoughts on this? By the way he is a well known high performance gas engine builder.
When I brought my head in to get re machined for a different side mount the guy asked me if I knew what caused freeze plugs to blow. I said well from everything I read and understand, the cause is coolant pressure. He said nope, what causes it is cylinder pressure getting into the coolant passages. Otherwise known as a blown headgasket or the head lifting. Any thoughts on this? By the way he is a well known high performance gas engine builder.
I would say it sounds good but there is nothing to support this theory.I have known and herd of many head gaskets blown with not a one freeze plug.I my self got a freeze plug with fire rings and did not have a blown head gasket.I drained the $hit out of the motor and fixed the freeze plug and ran the truck another 40 something thousand miles before the bottom fell out.It does sound good but i don't see it.
jsf350
12-12-2010, 07:45 PM
nope- pressure from the coolant/ steam pressure
I blew a rear plug after the 1/8 mile-- fun ride- replaced with a EEP coolant bypass and not an issue since
aer212
12-12-2010, 09:40 PM
nope- pressure from the coolant/ steam pressure
I blew a rear plug after the 1/8 mile-- fun ride- replaced with a EEP coolant bypass and not an issue since
Do you have a link for the EEP?
jsf350
12-12-2010, 09:56 PM
here you go--- not the prettiest but cheap and works great- pressure has said to be seen at 90psi in the back of the head (wow)
Enterprise Engine Performance - Cooling System Components - By-Pass Kits-Freeze Plugs (http://www.enterpriseengine.com/prod_display/Cooling+System+Components/272/By-Pass+Kits-Freeze+Plugs/0.php)
Joesixpack
12-12-2010, 10:59 PM
I've data logged 135 psi 5500 rpm, stock pump-pulley size, closed thermostat.
dvst8r
12-13-2010, 04:11 PM
I've data logged 135 psi 5500 rpm, stock pump-pulley size, closed thermostat.
Sounds like enough to pop out a frost plug to me...
KI've data logged 135 psi 5500 rpm, stock pump-pulley size, closed thermostat.
Have you done this while sitting still?
Going back in,should be running by Tuesday.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/th_IMG_20101217_160543.jpg (http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101217_160543.jpg)
Joesixpack
12-18-2010, 11:17 PM
K
Have you done this while sitting still?
Thought I answered this, but yeah free rev.
Good progress, did you fire ring this one? I couldn't see it in the photos.
WICKEDDIESELS
12-18-2010, 11:31 PM
1 pump
2 restriction
3 presure climbs
4 give it a place to go
Thought I answered this, but yeah free rev.
Good progress, did you fire ring this one? I couldn't see it in the photos.
Not doubting you but Ive checked this pressure free rev also.Is this on a 6.7 and do you have the cummins stat that has the relief holes in the horizontal portion of the stat? On the other end of the spectrum i will have a bypass in place from Shane to eliminate any issues while under WOT.I bought a new 5.9thermostat housing to use in order to clean up the engine bay a little more.Ill post some pics of the kit on my 6.7 latter in the week.
And yes this one is fire ringed just like the old one.
1 pump
2 restriction
3 presure climbs
4 give it a place to go
Thanks for the prompt delivery of the bypass kit Shane.I hope to smoke this thing by Tuesday and have a pic of the kit with duel fuelers.Awesome piece by the way.
XLR8R
12-19-2010, 10:33 AM
Not doubting you but Ive checked this pressure free rev also.Is this on a 6.7
The water pumps are stout - Brandon's measurements jive pretty well with the spreadsheet from our BOE testing several years back (5.9L), and I'd expect the 6.7L pump to be even more aggressive given the new impeller's more efficient design... and it's just good engineering for Cummins to spec higher coolant flow for a hot emissions application.
There's over 200 lbs. of ejection pressure on each of the large block plugs @ rated RPM.
The water pumps are stout - Brandon's measurements jive pretty well with the spreadsheet from our BOE testing several years back (5.9L), and I'd expect the 6.7L pump to be even more aggressive given the new impeller's more efficient design... and it's just good engineering for Cummins to spec higher coolant flow for a hot emissions application.
There's over 200 lbs. of ejection pressure on each of the large block plugs @ rated RPM.
You may expect it but my 6.7 sees no more than 60psi free rev at the rear of the head at 3700rpm,not enough to blow a freeze plug in my opinion.Now company that with inducing cavitation and heat from the exhaust runners while making a WOT pull and you get a different scenario.
XLR8R
12-19-2010, 11:12 AM
Of course - unless the interference fit is off, system pressure alone won't cause a problem... it just preloads the plugs for an easier exit when localized steam pockets form during high fueling.
I'll log the pump curve on the SS 6.7L when it's back together for some good apples-apples #s.
Joesixpack
12-19-2010, 11:19 AM
A bypass is going to have you covered no matter what the theory is were the pressure is coming from.
When I blew a plug pulling, on the data log, coolant pressure dropped right when rpm peaked very early, with little load on the engine.
Of interest as well, pressure always drops on my logs as the thermostat opens, and temp is climbing. As far as I'm concerned if there was any flashing off, I'd be seeing it in the pressure's and I don't.
XLR8R
12-19-2010, 11:31 AM
A bypass is going to have you covered no matter what the theory is were the pressure is coming from.
Exactly... besides, a well-designed bypass reduces pump drive HP.
A bypass is going to have you covered no matter what the theory is were the pressure is coming from.
When I blew a plug pulling, on the data log, coolant pressure dropped right when rpm peaked very early, with little load on the engine.
Of interest as well, pressure always drops on my logs as the thermostat opens, and temp is climbing. As far as I'm concerned if there was any flashing off, I'd be seeing it in the pressure's and I don't.
Yea thats why i decided to go ahead and throw one on there.I blew one of the small ones in the oil galley of the head on a long hard pull running a mustang on the interstate,i was at 1900+deg for about 10seconds are so.My theory at that time was the head over expanded and out ran the expansion of the plugs.Now that it has been fixed i have did this same thing multiple times with no other issues,so it really blew that theory out the water.I really think it is a combination of things that contribute to this happening that will also vary from engine to engine.Flow restrictions,casting flaws,tolerances etc.etc.
Just for those wondering the wicked coolant kit worked fine on the 6.7.I also decided to change the thermostat housing to a 5.9 housing to get rid of the sensor hanging on the side.I will be smoking this pig tomorrow.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101221_160614.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101221_170228.jpg
Well i got it back together and low and behold the ecm is fried.I decided to pull it off and take a look on the inside.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101223_170509.jpg
Here is the back side,the rods knocked it of the block.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101223_170541.jpg
And here is the inside,i did find some pieces that were not where they were supposed to be.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101223_170559.jpg
And here she sits awaiting a new ECM.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101223_160315.jpg
I decided to run a new 3/4" fuel line to the engine compartment while the engine was out.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101223_150933.jpg
It goes up to a y block then to each pump.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101223_151620-1.jpg
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/IMG_20101223_151456.jpg
Scooter's Roofing
12-24-2010, 11:57 PM
what's the story on the three brass boost leaks?
what's the story on the three brass boost leaks?
They leak when told to.Is this a trick question?
Scooter's Roofing
12-25-2010, 12:43 AM
what prevents the turbine shafts from overspeeding? :confused:
what's the story on the three brass boost leaks?
LOL
Yep. After a while they break the stem on the valve(brass) leaving them full open.
LOL
Yep. After a while they break the stem on the valve(brass) leaving them full open.
I have what i call squealers screwed in mine for that reason.When they are set so they will open you can here it from in the cab.But to be honest i have ran them closed and never get surge are bark.I just set them at 100psi and they never open.
what prevents the turbine shafts from overspeeding? :confused:
When set at the right pressure they will only open when lifting the throttle very quick dumping the excess pressure that got interrupted.
Hope that made since.
Howling
12-25-2010, 10:17 AM
Looks good, hope this one holds up.
Looks good, hope this one holds up.
Me too!!!
Signature600
12-27-2010, 07:45 AM
When set at the right pressure they will only open when lifting the throttle very quick dumping the excess pressure that got interrupted.
Hope that made since.
No, no they don't...but if you have them set to 100psi, they will only open above 100psi.
VERY bad idea to have those in there, IMHO!
But the rest of that looks Very Nice!
Chris
No, no they don't...but if you have them set to 100psi, they will only open above 100psi.
VERY bad idea to have those in there, IMHO!
But the rest of that looks Very Nice!
Chris
I believe thats what i just said.They are set to dump at a pressure grater than what i can build boost,they will only dump if there is a pressure spike over the set amount,unless one fails.As for you saying they are a bad idea,are you referring to one maybe getting stuck open and me not knowing about it and over speeding the turbo? If there is something else I'm not aware of i would love to know.
Thanks!
Signature600
12-27-2010, 04:24 PM
They can stick, yes...overspeed turbines, yes...very much bad.
As long as you never hit 100psi, they're fine...but I wouldn't want them to open at 100psi...INSTANT overspeed I would think.
Most people use those to make sure their boost never gets too high, to help save their headgasket...never mind what it does to the chargers.
To me, they're just one more thing to leak!
Chris
A few shots of her up and running.Taking it easy for a few miles then back to the wood she will go.
__________________
07Mega,4x4,68rfe,CP3X2,Hamilton Cam,#110 Springs,Chromoly Push Rods,P&P head, Fire ringed,Flux 4 sticks,ARP 625's,,silver 66/74 over s480 by Source,Sperco,Cunningham Rods ,Suncoast CompTransmission,BGChrysler Tuned, Mp8,Boost Fooler,Glacier GHD,WCC Intake,Big thanks to Ron@Suncoast & Erick@BrownsDiesel Pictures by ronniepene - Photobucket (http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/?action=view¤t=dodge67015.flv)
Well,lets try it again.
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/th_VID_20110107_175737.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/?action=view¤t=VID_20110107_175737.mp4)
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/th_NewShop004.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/?action=view¤t=NewShop004.mp4)
photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/th_VID_20110107_175737.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/th_NewShop004.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/?action=view¤t=NewShop004.mp4)
OK i f--king give up,its a video and its on my photo bucket at the very end if someone cares to view it.
VID_20110107_175737.mp4 video by ronniepene - Photobucket (http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/?action=view¤t=VID_20110107_175737.mp4)
NewShop004.mp4 video by ronniepene - Photobucket (http://s772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/ronniepene/?action=view¤t=NewShop004.mp4)
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