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dangerous06
07-01-2011, 09:14 AM
I heard the third event was for emmissions only? Has anyone removed it? What were the results?

Red Sleeper
07-01-2011, 09:32 AM
EFILive FIRST Cummins Public Release - Page 4 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together (http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113232&page=4)

Post #71

icemanjc1
07-01-2011, 11:02 AM
I heard the third event was for emmissions only? Has anyone removed it? What were the results?

A little loss in power at first, but doesn't take long to tune around it. Turbos cool off quicker, truck sounds more quiet.

Big Swole
07-01-2011, 12:03 PM
EFILive FIRST Cummins Public Release - Page 4 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together (http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113232&page=4)

Post #71


Thats for the pilot removal, he was asking about the 3rd event...Post shot...

Red Sleeper
07-01-2011, 12:25 PM
Thats for the pilot removal, he was asking about the 3rd event...Post shot...

:bang Misread it!

dieselkid6
07-01-2011, 02:55 PM
i believe it does cool things off a bit. i read that you can get rid of it but then you add duration to the main injection event to compensate for the minimal power loss and then some.

2007 5.9
07-01-2011, 04:51 PM
I removed it, got lower EGTs, lower smoke output, less injector noise...etc.

I have all but forgotten it ever existed!!

~Les

Big Swole
07-01-2011, 06:10 PM
I removed it, got lower EGTs, lower smoke output, less injector noise...etc.

I have all but forgotten it ever existed!!

~Les

Once again to clarify..

The 3rd event right? Not Pilot shot?

The OP was asking about the post shot I believe..

CIDraughn
07-01-2011, 06:42 PM
From the base tables That Ive seen, the post is only on at certain times. It is mainly for emissions reasons from what I hear. It looks like it is only on at an idle and low boost bottom end, then at WOT from about 2600 to 3200 rpm. I did remove mine and I can see a difference in the temperature slightly. Especially idling back down and cooling off before it shuts off. I had always heard that the post shot would help spool a large turbo on the low side, but that it could have negative side effects as far as liquefying pistons on higher rpm motors especially those motors with large nozzles. I would say just bump off the microseconds of the post shot and add those microseconds to the main shot. That would give a longer cooling period between shots. At least thats how im thinking. Anyone feel free to chime in and add or correct.

2007 5.9
07-01-2011, 07:07 PM
Once again to clarify..

The 3rd event right? Not Pilot shot?

The OP was asking about the post shot I believe..

Yes. Post injection removed gives me the above!!!

EFI Support
07-01-2011, 08:43 PM
Doghouse diesel has an interesting discussion and screen shots of removing the 3rd injection event on their Facebook page. Incompatible Browser | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.212454172131592.54491.174886519221691)

Cheers
Cindy

CIDraughn
07-01-2011, 08:51 PM
Thats a good link Cindy thanks... I had been wondering about some of those tables...

icemanjc1
07-01-2011, 10:12 PM
From the base tables That Ive seen, the post is only on at certain times. It is mainly for emissions reasons from what I hear. It looks like it is only on at an idle and low boost bottom end, then at WOT from about 2600 to 3200 rpm. I did remove mine and I can see a difference in the temperature slightly. Especially idling back down and cooling off before it shuts off. I had always heard that the post shot would help spool a large turbo on the low side, but that it could have negative side effects as far as liquefying pistons on higher rpm motors especially those motors with large nozzles. I would say just bump off the microseconds of the post shot and add those microseconds to the main shot. That would give a longer cooling period between shots. At least thats how im thinking. Anyone feel free to chime in and add or correct.

My theory on this (which I haven't tested...yet) is use the post up to 2000rpm or less and cut off any duration above that. I'm fighting injector issues right now or I would have a good idea about it. With the thought of having big nozzles, I'm not sure if the post event would still even be needed honestly.

CIDraughn
07-01-2011, 10:29 PM
My theory on this (which I haven't tested...yet) is use the post up to 2000rpm or less and cut off any duration above that. I'm fighting injector issues right now or I would have a good idea about it. With the thought of having big nozzles, I'm not sure if the post event would still even be needed honestly.

That's my thinking on the pre-2k post injection. Use it to spool and drop it after that's over with. Just a thought. There's too much changing hardware wise on my truck to have any big news or concrete findings soon. Ill try it on my buddy's puller though. He needs some help lighting the charger sometimes. :charger:

700kenny
07-02-2011, 05:06 PM
Anyone have feedback on fuel mileage after removing post injection?

CIDraughn
07-02-2011, 05:20 PM
From what i ca tell i have hand calculated a 2 mpg improvement on my no injection event tune over a 500 mile trip. but that cannot be totally attributed to the lack of the 3rd event. I have also modified some other tables. But just out of curiosity I may throw it back in on the tune i am running now and see what it does. I will definitely keep you posted.

2007 5.9
07-02-2011, 07:10 PM
Losing the 3rd event...actually made it easier to spool my 66...BUT timing has a large effect on spool as well.

I can light my 66 with EASE now...with being able to adjust timing accordingly, I can have 10psi by 1500 rpm and full tilt 50psi by 1800.

~Les

outlaw99
07-03-2011, 12:44 PM
I have 94 lpm tips. We lost post after 2000 rpm I noticed a nice gain in hp and rail.

StarLite Diesel
07-03-2011, 05:38 PM
Anyone have feedback on fuel mileage after removing post injection?

I have two customers both reporting 19.5-21 MPG highway (empty) on bone stock trucks (no intake, etc.). I have another customer that just did long road trip hauling a flatbed trailer with a car on it (guessing around 9000 poungs) that said he's filled up twice and calculated 17 - 17.5 MPG.

These numbers are hand calculated - not read from the overhead console. I know I hear bigger numbers reported from time to time, but it doesn't seem many people can say whether that is hand calculated or not. So far i'm really happy with the mileage improvements (2-4 MPG seems to be the average reported for whatever their driving style is).

Kdubya
07-03-2011, 06:20 PM
When you guys turn the post injection off, are you adjusting the Axis defines at all? The tables are where the Axis defines get their info from, correct?

2007 5.9
07-03-2011, 09:39 PM
When you guys turn the post injection off, are you adjusting the Axis defines at all? The tables are where the Axis defines get their info from, correct?

Nope...
Just go into the post pulse table...and zero it out.

~Les

Kdubya
07-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Les,
Thank you sir.

Flashscan
07-04-2011, 05:54 PM
Les, I feel it's better to zero the commanded mm3 values to turn off injection events. The final calculation from mm3 to a pulse time is one of the last processes the ECM does, prior to that it will be referencing the commanded mm3 still.
If you have values in there parts of the code will still think there is going to be a post injection event even though it's stopped by having a 0uS pulse time. If you kill it via the Base + Air Adjust tables then any other routines that are checking commanded mm3 will see there is zero for the post pulse (or pilot if you are doing that too).

2007 5.9
07-04-2011, 08:07 PM
Les, I feel it's better to zero the commanded mm3 values to turn off injection events. The final calculation from mm3 to a pulse time is one of the last processes the ECM does, prior to that it will be referencing the commanded mm3 still.
If you have values in there parts of the code will still think there is going to be a post injection event even though it's stopped by having a 0uS pulse time. If you kill it via the Base + Air Adjust tables then any other routines that are checking commanded mm3 will see there is zero for the post pulse (or pilot if you are doing that too).

Thanks for the heads up Ross!!

I'll give it a shot!

~Les

Kdubya
07-04-2011, 10:13 PM
On this tune I'm building for my Dad's 07, I killed it in the "Injection Quantity" and then zeroed out the tables and left the axis defines alone. Am I on the right track with this?

Thanks.

2007 5.9
07-05-2011, 07:46 AM
Sounds good.

~Les

Hellsteed
07-06-2011, 07:00 PM
Just double checking, to disable the post event I go to the {D0508} Post Injection Pulse table in the Injection Quantity section and zero all of the values right?

Kdubya
07-06-2011, 07:40 PM
Yes, all tables under the "Post Injection" branch of the tree in the "Injection Quantity".

Hellsteed
07-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Yes, all tables under the "Post Injection" branch of the tree in the "Injection Quantity".

Every single table under that heading? I tried my hand at disabling pilot and post injections and just tried to take the truck out for a test drive. It idled fine and I could tell the pilot injection was gone but as soon as you push on the accelerator pedal the truck sputters, shoots out white smoke and tries to die. If you stay off the pedal it idles perfect. Anyone have ideas on what I did wrong?

phale
07-06-2011, 08:06 PM
There are a lot of fine adjustments that have to made be get a single injection event file to run well. I worked on it for a little while, but found it more effective to leave the pilot alone until higher RPM and higher load.

Hellsteed
07-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Well I started with a new copy of my stock file and zeroed out every Post table under the Quantity heading and took it out for a test drive. Everything seems to be working fine.

Kdubya
07-07-2011, 02:20 PM
The only thing I would do with Pilot is maybe smooth it a little and see what it does.

Hellsteed
07-08-2011, 12:26 AM
Well my laptop kicked the bucket, gotta wait until the new one comes in next week :charger:

Hellsteed
07-09-2011, 10:01 AM
Has anyone extended the main event duration to make up for the post event being disabled?

BIGRED08
07-15-2011, 10:58 AM
also curious about this

Kdubya
07-15-2011, 12:53 PM
I extended the main injection event and upped the fuel pressure but I don't have any results with the latest changes. Turning the post off produced a very light haze at WOT. Trying to get the power up on it now. As soon as he gets it loaded up and has time to test it, I'll know more.

Hellsteed
07-15-2011, 12:56 PM
I haven't touched the main duration yet, just adjusted the main timing, fuel pressures and desired fuel flow amounts and have more than made up for the power lost without post. Hopefully I'll be running it on a dyno soon and I'll post up results. So far the truck runs great, doesn't get hot and I need to readjust some options to get rid of some smoke.

2007 5.9
07-15-2011, 02:09 PM
I haven't touched the main duration yet, just adjusted the main timing, fuel pressures and desired fuel flow amounts and have more than made up for the power lost without post. Hopefully I'll be running it on a dyno soon and I'll post up results. So far the truck runs great, doesn't get hot and I need to readjust some options to get rid of some smoke.

Look to timing on the low end for smoke control....

~Les

SixOhh
07-28-2011, 05:47 PM
what adjustments are you fellas making to keep the truck from running away after a WOT run, if any? does the absence of the post event help this condition?

2007 5.9
07-28-2011, 09:53 PM
what adjustments are you fellas making to keep the truck from running away after a WOT run, if any? does the absence of the post event help this condition?

Are you referring to the throttle hang issue??

If so we are working on narrowing down if it's a OS issue or something else.

Some OS don't have a issue and some have a severe issue.

~Les

SixOhh
08-22-2011, 03:34 PM
yes and that's my mistake. after riding in an 06 yesterday i dont have the problem NEAR as bad as some of the 06's do. if it really is in the OS then 06' owners with severe throttle hang will have a simple fix buy simply running a modded 07' tune right?