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View Full Version : Air removal just marketing hype ?


UNBROKEN
08-12-2011, 12:14 PM
That's the claim being made somewhere else.
What say you, Anthony?

UNBROKEN
08-12-2011, 12:16 PM
Quote:

As to the deal with air in the fuel, itís just a gimmick, anyone that understands basic fluid dynamics on a non-compressible fluid will tell you that.
Not that either of those systems are a good filter and pump system, but thatís all that they are

UNBROKEN
08-12-2011, 12:17 PM
Another:

They are good systems but don't get caught up in the hype.

UNBROKEN
08-12-2011, 12:18 PM
So Anthony...is it hype or science?

LReiff
08-12-2011, 12:20 PM
So Anthony...is it hype or science?

This!

madmikeismad
08-12-2011, 12:22 PM
in.

madmikeismad
08-12-2011, 12:23 PM
Honestly, no matter what the answer is, we can't expect him to come out and say "Yeah, it's all hype"

lextalionis
08-12-2011, 12:38 PM
you can still have liquid in a container and compress air into it, so dont they claim that the system removes those air bubbles?

I have questioned this before, so I'm curious to see what comes up.

Joesixpack
08-12-2011, 12:47 PM
Hype. Most modern fuel systems are set up to deal with some air and return the less desirable to tank. And if you are pulling air on the suction side FIX IT.

PRINCETON_JAKE
08-12-2011, 12:59 PM
The thing i never understood is if the pump or filters remove the so called air in the fuel, where does the air go once its removed?

Scooter's Roofing
08-12-2011, 01:01 PM
it all stems from back when the theory of cavitation causing the death of VP44 injection pumps... so the FASS was born!

turns out that was NOT the cause of VP44 pumps failing, but hey fear is a great motivator to hand over money, so it's been part of the marketing ever since

lextalionis
08-12-2011, 01:01 PM
I think its supposed to go back to the tank with the return from the hpfp

M_Thomas07
08-12-2011, 01:16 PM
:pop:

JasonCzerak
08-12-2011, 01:31 PM
If the fuel system's suppose to "deal with it" If it didn't have to deal with it, wouldn't it perform better? :)

PRINCETON_JAKE
08-12-2011, 07:52 PM
I think its supposed to go back to the tank with the return from the hpfp

What do you meen by hpfp? the injection pump? if so that wouldnt make any sence

Lostnwalmart
08-12-2011, 07:55 PM
High pressure fuel pump hpfp = injection pump

kleann
08-12-2011, 08:00 PM
It's not like anyone buys an airdog or fass becuase of the air removal anyways, we buy them for the fuel pump and filter.

roachie
08-12-2011, 08:09 PM
It pumps, it filters, it doesn't leave me stranded. Who cares.

CSnyder
08-12-2011, 08:12 PM
Airdog has never failed me at Ram Boyz!

smoketruck
08-12-2011, 08:56 PM
Better than the stock pump

BFD99
08-12-2011, 10:47 PM
You ever farted in the swimming pool or lake? LOL Those bubbles always float to the surface, not to the bottom, and my fuel sump draws from the bottom, as do the draw straws so I don't see much air being in the fuel system that the airdog would have to supposedly remove.

JasonCzerak
08-12-2011, 10:59 PM
So, why does diesel foam so easily?

ride42
08-12-2011, 10:59 PM
Someone should put a hairline cut in a fuel line so it can draw air in and then see if the pump works good.

duck_04
08-12-2011, 11:01 PM
So, why does diesel foam so easily?
because the air is rising to the top.

BFD99
08-12-2011, 11:01 PM
So, why does diesel foam so easily?
Because Racecar Jason.

Powerstroked162
08-12-2011, 11:02 PM
It pumps, it filters, it doesn't leave me stranded. Who cares.

^^ sums it up

JasonCzerak
08-12-2011, 11:06 PM
so when your driving all around the fuels sloshing all around, there's air bound to be in fuel that gets sucked up by the intake. Granted it's not like farting in a pool, but every little counts.

PRINCETON_JAKE
08-12-2011, 11:10 PM
Im going to put an areator in my fuel tank, the more air going into the engine=less fuel= better mileage :rockwoot:







:badidea:

Joesixpack
08-12-2011, 11:12 PM
so when your driving all around the fuels sloshing all around, there's air bound to be in fuel that gets sucked up by the intake. Granted it's not like farting in a pool, but every little counts.


Thats what the stock fuel canister is for, VERY effective at keeping full and air free.

duck_04
08-12-2011, 11:12 PM
Im going to put an areator in my fuel tank, the more air going into the engine
wonder if that will allow the use of a smaller turbo? LOL

JasonCzerak
08-12-2011, 11:30 PM
Thats what the stock fuel canister is for, VERY effective at keeping full and air free.

OK, since your smart, I'll assume that's very true. Thanks for establishing that point.

Next step: dual modded pumps. Can the stock fuel canister flow enough and provide 3micron filtration? Don't think so with that tiny ID line

Enter FASS and AirDog. Filtration, water separation and air separation, what the stock canister from Dodge did, but at a higher volume and lower micron.


So, i fail to see the myth? Should I install my stock canister and fuel pump to supply my dual cp3's?

Joesixpack
08-12-2011, 11:57 PM
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll299/brydc/Canisterdetail.jpg

Air free fuel. I call it the DSFAS.....(Don's suck fuggin air system).

Throw a simple draw straw in a swashing tank and yeah....guess your looking for a "air dog or fass" at 1/4 tank.

JasonCzerak
08-13-2011, 12:10 AM
I've been planning on getting a kit one of these days to get rid of the straw.

I'm sick of the 1/4 tank crap.

Joesixpack
08-13-2011, 12:18 AM
What 1/4 tank crap? Mean the airdog isn't removing......AIR.....:poke:

JasonCzerak
08-13-2011, 12:33 AM
What 1/4 tank crap? Mean the airdog isn't removing......AIR.....:poke:

I never let it get close to 1/4 ;-)

I dunno if the air's doing anything against things or not. maybe it cost 2hp. The stock system as you say does it...No one's questioned and tested this outside of FASS/Airdog has anyone?

cumminstroked
08-13-2011, 01:15 AM
If you were to put air in your fuel system you could raise the mpg. On top of that put about a quarter tank of water in and you could have water injection... BADA$$!!!
I never bought my airdog for the air separation, always thought that was a bunch of bs. The water separation is a plus. I bought it for a good performance supply pump that is reliable. Although i would like to know how they figure the air separation after all when you drain the water from the filter it comes out water and then fuel, I've never noticed air to come out of it, but i guess if i left it open long enough air would eventually come out.

JasonCzerak
08-13-2011, 01:25 AM
Has anyone actually looked at FASS or Airdogs website?

http://www.pureflowairdog.com/img/fuel-preporator-diagram-h.jpg

TheBigNasty
08-13-2011, 02:31 AM
This may be the principle they are using...

Removing Entrained Air in Hydraulic Fluids and Lubrication Oils
(http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/373/entrained-air-oil-hydraulic)

mikmaze
08-13-2011, 09:20 AM
1/4 tank issues? never with a Hellman sump!

Scooter's Roofing
08-13-2011, 10:43 AM
It pumps, it filters, it doesn't leave me stranded. Who cares.

yeah, nobody's ever been stranded by a FASS or AD! LOL

LReiff
08-13-2011, 11:08 AM
yeah, nobody's ever been stranded by a FASS or AD! LOL

But the warranty is lifetime! :poke:

BFD99
08-13-2011, 05:22 PM
yeah, nobody's ever been stranded by a FASS or AD! LOL

3 times and counting! LOL

Mr.T
08-13-2011, 06:07 PM
never had a problem with my AD150, gonna be puttin one on the D-max soon

RacinDuallie
08-13-2011, 11:25 PM
:doh: Why would a moderator post this on a site vendors area whom sells the very part in question that's now getting negative reviews???? :doh:

Craig_C
08-13-2011, 11:47 PM
Lol guess we will have to see how long my two pump setup lasts! (Holley black knock off and the stock in tank pump) I figure if I keep the tank full, theres no air issue!

SKYNYRD
08-14-2011, 01:03 AM
1/4 tank issues? never with a Hellman sump!

nope no 1/4 tank issue just an empty tank issue!! :lolly:

I have a mitusa pump I run with a walbro 392 pump (as back up) that I got off ebay for under 100 bucks it pumps 23 psi even at WOT doesn't skip a beat even with the mitusa not hooked up.

BSwope
08-14-2011, 07:23 AM
OK, since your smart, I'll assume that's very true. Thanks for establishing that point.

Next step: dual modded pumps. Can the stock fuel canister flow enough and provide 3micron filtration? Don't think so with that tiny ID lineEnter FASS and AirDog. Filtration, water separation and air separation, what the stock canister from Dodge did, but at a higher volume and lower micron.


So, i fail to see the myth? Should I install my stock canister and fuel pump to supply my dual cp3's?

Tim Barber dose it through the factory canister, pretty sure he filters the fuel through a 2 micron filter before the canister but he has dual cp3's and is over 1k hp on fuel only and i think thats with 3/8" fuel line.
Just sayin is all.... not to disagree Jason.

NickTF
08-14-2011, 08:56 AM
No comment on the air removal feature but I'm still happy with my AD150. Has been very reliable for me and 95% plug and play (needed to go to hardware to come up with reducers for the filler neck return).

UNBROKEN
08-14-2011, 09:35 AM
I see I used the wrong bait for this thread. Still waiting for Anthony to show some science behind the product so I can step on the guys neck that posted the stuff I quoted.

chvyrkr
08-14-2011, 10:14 AM
Well, I'll add that I run an AD2/165 at 60psi, and use a mech (outside the windshield) gauge with no dampener.

Needle on the gauge doesn't flutter like it ought to be doin if there was air in the fuel.

2Tone12V
08-15-2011, 12:32 PM
Sorry I missed this. Its not mad science but simply sommething others didn't catch onto years ago. I won't sit here and say how its done so everyone can duplicate how its done and I lose business. But I can show how ours works vs. whats out there and show you ours passes no air and others do.
Air Separation is a positive for the pump but its main purpose is to pump fuel at a volume everyone needs and be reliable. Some big changes were just put into production a couple weeks ago. Shouldn't see an AirDog or Raptor fail again. Ill see if I can get a factory style set up on a demo vs. our set up and let you view it for yourself. Right now I'm driving and can't quite do that. Head to TS to put a pump on a new Dmax. Dennis' place is full of new rides!!

2Tone12V
08-15-2011, 12:37 PM
:doh: Why would a moderator post this on a site vendors area whom sells the very part in question that's now getting negative reviews???? :doh:

No problem. If I claim it I should be able to back it up. I can so its all good. I have nothing to hide. Anyone can ask me anything.

fire power
08-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Some big changes were just put into production a couple weeks ago. Shouldn't see an AirDog or Raptor fail again

What about all the other ones I wasted my time replacing?

SHughes
08-15-2011, 12:49 PM
replace it
CompD Mobile Device

Big Swole
08-15-2011, 01:27 PM
Anthony, I sent you that text as requested..

JasonCzerak
08-15-2011, 01:58 PM
Sorry I missed this. Its not mad science but simply sommething others didn't catch onto years ago. I won't sit here and say how its done so everyone can duplicate how its done and I lose business. But I can show how ours works vs. whats out there and show you ours passes no air and others do.
Air Separation is a positive for the pump but its main purpose is to pump fuel at a volume everyone needs and be reliable. Some big changes were just put into production a couple weeks ago. Shouldn't see an AirDog or Raptor fail again. Ill see if I can get a factory style set up on a demo vs. our set up and let you view it for yourself. Right now I'm driving and can't quite do that. Head to TS to put a pump on a new Dmax. Dennis' place is full of new rides!!



What about all the other ones I wasted my time replacing?

replace it
CompD Mobile Device

Research and development via customers?





(ohh I know this all to well with software/hardware...)

1lowdiesel
08-15-2011, 02:21 PM
Research and development via customers?



lol nope just changes to keep us at the head of the class. :Cheer:

2Tone12V
08-15-2011, 02:22 PM
So is this a bash AirDog thread now? Because I worked my butt off to better the pump. Product developement doesn't happen overnight. The more you sell the more potential problems show and you find better ways of doing things etc. Thats with anything. Sorry I spent the last year and a half trying to make them the best they can be. Next time Ill think it up and put it into production immediatly without doing my own testing first. Lucky for anyone that had an Airdog problem we gave all the opportunity for a warranty and if you didn't fill the card out its your own fault. I did my part did you do yours? Well I'm done with this thread already. That didn't take long.

SHughes
08-15-2011, 02:30 PM
Research and development via customers?





(ohh I know this all to well with software/hardware...)

I think that is a bit much Jason. No product is 100% right out of the gate. Nor can you wait for years of private R&D to get a product to market. And everyone beats on their stuff differently. And if the company made zero upgrades over time, you could not expect them to stay in business for very long. After time on the market, if a weak point was found, a company must upgrade said weakness. I wouldn't call that R&D via customers.


NOW yor world of computers is a bit of a shady/rush-to-market industry or fall behind kind of world.

Joesixpack
08-15-2011, 02:44 PM
I don't think many would argue they don't pump fuel, and in general work great. You would have to be deaf dumb and blind to not know of the electric motor issues.

Lost track of how many machines around here, last one that showed up a MT865 CAT, and of course no electric lift pump from the factory, in fact there is not a single machine on the place that has a electric lift from the factory, no engineer would fit a electric over a mechanical due to the very issues that have plagued both companies.

BUT as a quick retrofit to those who need more fuel why not. Would I put one on my 400K tractor that has a perfectly working and designed fuel system, errrr no.

Great to hear about a better motor though.

JasonCzerak
08-15-2011, 04:14 PM
NOW yor world of computers is a bit of a shady/rush-to-market industry or fall behind kind of world.


Have you use any windows product prior to windows 7? LOL. windows 7, 25 or so years later, finally works.

Just over the weekend, piece of hardware doing a maintenance point release update, it's last reboot for another year, the upgrade paniced. I could buy a small fleet of loaded Ford 450's for the cost of this thing, that broke, over a simple upgrade.

:)

UNBROKEN
08-15-2011, 05:02 PM
:doh: Why would a moderator post this on a site vendors area whom sells the very part in question that's now getting negative reviews???? :doh:

You're a moron. You know exactly what I was asking and why.
It had nothing to do with throwing AirDog under the bus.

madmikeismad
08-15-2011, 05:42 PM
Have you use any windows product prior to windows 7? LOL. windows 7, 25 or so years later, finally works.

Just over the weekend, piece of hardware doing a maintenance point release update, it's last reboot for another year, the upgrade paniced. I could buy a small fleet of loaded Ford 450's for the cost of this thing, that broke, over a simple upgrade.

:)

Windows 2000/nt was awesome. XP was pretty good too, especially when comparing to vista. 7 still seems like a POS, but still better than vista. But if a company still relies on windows for it's network, it's their own fault when bad things happen.

JasonCzerak
08-15-2011, 05:47 PM
Windows 2000/nt was awesome. XP was pretty good too, especially when comparing to vista. 7 still seems like a POS, but still better than vista. But if a company still relies on windows for it's network, it's their own fault when bad things happen.

2000/nt was crap.
xp was crap


win7, used in a real enterprise env doing stuff all day.... in fact, short of sleep mode, my laptop hasn't been rebooted in about 6 months... I'm sure there's a patch or ten to install but I haven't had an issue with it, even going and coming from a docking station. that's amazing in my book.

SINNER
08-15-2011, 06:12 PM
You're a moron. You know exactly what I was asking and why.
It had nothing to do with throwing AirDog under the bus.

I hope you are just stating a fact and not just realizing this today.


LMFAO

ParkingDooly....

UNBROKEN
08-15-2011, 06:18 PM
Computer talk somewhere else.

fire power
08-15-2011, 06:59 PM
So is this a bash AirDog thread now? Because I worked my butt off to better the pump. Product developement doesn't happen overnight. The more you sell the more potential problems show and you find better ways of doing things etc. Thats with anything. Sorry I spent the last year and a half trying to make them the best they can be. Next time Ill think it up and put it into production immediatly without doing my own testing first. Lucky for anyone that had an Airdog problem we gave all the opportunity for a warranty and if you didn't fill the card out its your own fault. I did my part did you do yours? Well I'm done with this thread already. That didn't take long.

Great then can I get one of these new ones half price for my support in research and development?

SHughes
08-15-2011, 07:58 PM
Great then can I get one of these new ones half price for my support in research and development?

did you sign a contract stating such???

NO?? Didn't think so.:bang

fire power
08-15-2011, 08:20 PM
did you sign a contract stating such???

NO?? Didn't think so.:bang

You sure are a good supporter. I bet you never had to change a pump along the road in the snow.

Highfinance97
08-15-2011, 08:22 PM
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll299/brydc/Canisterdetail.jpg

Air free fuel. I call it the DSFAS.....(Don's suck fuggin air system).

Throw a simple draw straw in a swashing tank and yeah....guess your looking for a "air dog or fass" at 1/4 tank.

Here is the one I used up until this year because of going to a fuel cell

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r184/Highfinance97/Fuel008.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r184/Highfinance97/Fuel009-1.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r184/Highfinance97/Fuel010.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r184/Highfinance97/FuelPump017.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r184/Highfinance97/Fitting010-1.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r184/Highfinance97/Fitting009-1.jpg

TheBigNasty
08-15-2011, 08:27 PM
You sure are a good supporter. I bet you never had to change a pump along the road in the snow.

I see a river and I think it's being fueled by your tears.

SHughes
08-15-2011, 08:52 PM
You sure are a good supporter. I bet you never had to change a pump along the road in the snow.

I do like their product, no doubt. I may not have changed a pump in the snow but I have had issues with ripping filters off, the DF200 has some long ass filters, and on a lowered 2nd gen they are in constant danger, even from the oil change rack that claimed a filter this morning.

However, I do not expect Air Dog to replace every filter I carlessly destroy. I am FULLY aware of the problems that may be incured form use of an aftermarket system and would never ask an aftermarket company to replace my old equipment every time the upgrade their product line.

CSnyder
08-15-2011, 09:20 PM
You sure are a good supporter. I bet you never had to change a pump along the road in the snow.

so your butt hurt because you got a little cold and wet? You must be some sort of city slicker to whine about such pathetic things....

cumminstroked
08-15-2011, 09:58 PM
I have no complaints and i have an AD on both of my trucks. I put one on my daily driver after the factory pump put me on the side of the road. Its one of those things, it just happens. Not every pump is perfect but the air dog is dammm good.

BIGRPOWR
08-15-2011, 10:54 PM
No problem. If I claim it I should be able to back it up. I can so its all good. I have nothing to hide. Anyone can ask me anything.

im glad your lazy ass finally replied. i got nothing but good things to say about mine, although i havent changed a filter yet. but it does EXACTLY what i was told it would. thanks buddy!

morkable
08-15-2011, 11:08 PM
I run a AD on my race truck, it is a great unit, very good fit and finish, very complete product. I cant speak to the air part, but I do know that unit itself is great and works as advertized

Timbeaux38
08-16-2011, 10:30 AM
Anthony and company make a great product that they stand behind..... This thread did not work as the original OP intended, and it is now done.