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View Full Version : To batmoto, or stick with billet.


Btp 2332
12-07-2011, 04:47 PM
Posting this for my dad because hes in the hunt for a new charger for dragracing. Staying with a single, going to hit it with a small amount of nitrous, has all the supporting mods etc hes just looking for some hard information and help deciding if he wants to spend the extra 400 for a batmoto. I beleive hes looking at 475 or bigger, 87.1.0. So question is, is it worth it or stick with the billet wheel chargers. I read a thread in here with a dyno graph that the batmoto wheel over billet gained around 50hp and that was the only change made while on the dyno. Most of the other threads are everybody waiting for someone to prove the batmoto wheel worthy. Any info would be great thanks.

chevota84
12-07-2011, 04:53 PM
There's no flow info or maps for the batmo so hard info isn't really out there.

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OrangeNV
12-07-2011, 05:10 PM
i would say the best results you could get is to SIZE the turbo perfect for his setup with billet parts

batmo is hype imo

if it flowed more air why wouldnt they put out a map to help with sales?

straight 6 roar
12-07-2011, 05:20 PM
The F.I. billet 78mm wheel is supposed to be pretty amazing....very light.

Highfinance97
12-07-2011, 05:26 PM
batmo is hype

THIS!

Highfinance97
12-07-2011, 05:26 PM
batmo is hype

THIS!


I'd talk with E.D and get a Billet

SHughes
12-07-2011, 05:32 PM
anything with a silly name is probably marketing hype. IMHO










Except for Mumau....no one would use a name like for marketing...it's way too silly.
CompD Mobile Device

jmd025
12-07-2011, 07:19 PM
i would say the best results you could get is to SIZE the turbo perfect for his setup with billet parts

batmo is hype imo

if it flowed more air why wouldnt they put out a map to help with sales?

Batmo map exists:


http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp75/jmd025/2011-08-29_16-19-19_666.jpg

SSpeeDEMONSS
12-07-2011, 07:28 PM
Batmo map exists:


http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp75/jmd025/2011-08-29_16-19-19_666.jpg

hahaha, i may have to borrow that.

Garrett

zstroken
12-07-2011, 07:44 PM
Where are the maps for the other billet wheels?

JQmile
12-08-2011, 12:26 AM
Spend the money on a better nitrous system and use more of that LOL

wickedred21
12-08-2011, 12:36 AM
Not to disagree that the batmo maybe hyped up a bit much, but I'm running a s466 with the batmo from stainless diesel and it seems to work really well with my setup. However, like you all have said no back to back dyno testing with a regular billet wheel.

madmikeismad
12-08-2011, 02:58 AM
And from what I remember, all the broken batmo's seemed to have spray in common.

Charger
12-08-2011, 03:29 AM
mabe try a switchblade

Btp 2332
12-08-2011, 10:07 AM
I think most of the broken batmotos were s300 base to which is not what hes looking at. Nitrous system has enough in it and will be just fine. Two stage, progressive controlled etc etc

Doesnt have to be a dodge guys, ford, chevy, gm whatever if you have experience with the batmoto good or bad throw it out there.

I have a 475 batmoto on my 12v but havent had any track time with it so I cant even tell him anything yet positive or negative yet. I do know it spools up as fast as the box stock 475/83 I was running before and this one has an 87 wheel in it.

Keep it coming guys, thanks for the responses so far.

Smokem
12-08-2011, 12:10 PM
Tom knows my thoughts, better off buying Batman underwear.

Btp 2332
12-08-2011, 12:32 PM
lol hes prob going with your pick regardless. You know how he gets, curious.

LWATSON
12-09-2011, 08:20 PM
I steered away from the batmo when I bought my charger becuse of the added weight of the wheel. My thought was in order to make the wheel with those fancy curves it had to be machined with more material left on the wheel which would weigh more and spool a little slower. I may be way off base but this is why I went with the standard billet.

96C12V
12-09-2011, 08:52 PM
My 62 Double bat is the nastiest spooling thing i've ever had! I had a 62/65/12 with just a billet before and this 62/71/12 out performs it by far! At WOT i don't see 1300 on egt's, with 6 inch lifted mega on 35's!

Smokem
12-09-2011, 11:04 PM
I had a 62/65/12 with just a billet before and this 62/71/12 out performs it by far! At WOT i don't see 1300 on egt's, with 6 inch lifted mega on 35's!

I love when people compare two turbochargers against each other, and reach a verdict, when they have completely different turbine wheels.

bbbxcursion
12-09-2011, 11:12 PM
My 62 Double bat is the nastiest spooling thing i've ever had! I had a 62/65/12 with just a billet before and this 62/71/12 out performs it by far! At WOT i don't see 1300 on egt's, with 6 inch lifted mega on 35's!

LOL

Kind
12-10-2011, 02:08 PM
Where are these broken batmo's?

I'm not for or against the batmo, but I have 3 double batmo S300 frames I have yet to use. So this carnage you guys are talking about would be good food for thought, if you could provide evidence of their failures. Not that I've looked real hard but I haven't seen any.

LWATSON
12-10-2011, 06:02 PM
My 62 Double bat is the nastiest spooling thing i've ever had! I had a 62/65/12 with just a billet before and this 62/71/12 out performs it by far! At WOT i don't see 1300 on egt's, with 6 inch lifted mega on 35's!Shouldn't the 62/71/12 out perform the 62/65/12 anyway, standard billet or batmo?

OrangeNV
12-10-2011, 06:53 PM
Shouldn't the 62/71/12 out perform the 62/65/12 anyway, standard billet or batmo?


It won't make any more power, same compressor wheel

Smokem
12-10-2011, 07:06 PM
A 62/71mm will make more power than a 62/65mm.

OrangeNV
12-10-2011, 07:13 PM
Due to running more efficient at higher rpm?

Smokem
12-10-2011, 07:17 PM
Due to the larger turbine. 65mm is 11-blade and the 71mm is 10-blade. People get so excited about compressor wheels, but fail to realize the turbine wheel is just as important, if not more important.

NickTF
12-10-2011, 07:40 PM
Woohoo billet turbines!

madmikeismad
12-10-2011, 10:14 PM
It won't make any more power, same compressor wheel

Larger turbine will generally spool slower, but flow more up top and keep EGT's lower.

JQmile
12-10-2011, 11:25 PM
Posting this for my dad because hes in the hunt for a new charger for dragracing. Staying with a single, going to hit it with a small amount of nitrous, has all the supporting mods etc hes just looking for some hard information and help deciding if he wants to spend the extra 400 for a batmoto. I beleive hes looking at 475 or bigger, 87.1.0. So question is, is it worth it or stick with the billet wheel chargers. I read a thread in here with a dyno graph that the batmoto wheel over billet gained around 50hp and that was the only change made while on the dyno. Most of the other threads are everybody waiting for someone to prove the batmoto wheel worthy. Any info would be great thanks.

Just curious on why he wants such a big charger....that means a looser converter, less spooling ability, no low rpm power, and the chance to snuff it on shifts. Plenty of people out there have made 700-800 on 66mm chargers, and nitrous can boost it up to an easy 1,000rwhp with small jets. I just don't get the big single thing for drag racing.

Smokem
12-11-2011, 12:28 AM
Such a big charger? That is smaller than some run on the manifold. Show me a reliable 10.0ET 6500lb 4wd truck with an S300.

AHall
12-11-2011, 01:27 AM
All the more reason for triples.

bigblk
12-11-2011, 03:13 AM
Triple Batmo's, Now your talking........................................... .................................................. ......................................TRASH!

Carbon
12-11-2011, 04:49 AM
batmo????
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/RYANRICH_01/BATMOBILE.jpg

let me ask a stupid question, what all goes into making a map, isn't there anybody who can buy one and make a map. or does this involve 100k+ equiptment to do it. I would think if they are so great other companies would be buying them and testing them.

Btp 2332
12-11-2011, 07:55 AM
He ran a S480 96/1.10 t6 as a single last year on fuel only. Didnt get it tuned much but off the trailer it went 10.94 backed by two 10.95 passes. Hes going back to a t4 foot and if the batmo had a slight edge over billet hes all for trying it thats all. Conveter is plenty loose and never snuffed the above charger so going to a t4 480/87 will be childs play for him. Esp with alittle juice.

JQmile
12-11-2011, 11:48 AM
Such a big charger? That is smaller than some run on the manifold. Show me a reliable 10.0ET 6500lb 4wd truck with an S300.

That's a trick question....there is no reliable 10.0-second 6,500 pound truck! :hehe:

I know a few trucks have went 10.50's-10.70's in testing for the 66mm class. With a little nitrous, I am sure that could be 10.0. And I personally wouldn't run an S300, I'd run an S400.

JasonCzerak
12-11-2011, 11:55 AM
That's a trick question....there is no reliable 10.0-second 6,500 pound truck! :hehe:

I know a few trucks have went 10.50's-10.70's in testing for the 66mm class. With a little nitrous, I am sure that could be 10.0. And I personally wouldn't run an S300, I'd run an S400.

But your sig says otherwise?... :)

Kind
12-11-2011, 11:59 AM
Triple Batmo's, Now your talking........................................... .................................................. ......................................TRASH!

Not tryin to localize on just you, but seems like all this batmo trash talking is just that... trash.

Nobody seems to be providing any evidence, just a bunch of trash typing.

Once I finish my build I will see for myself. If they bite the bullet then I will be the first to let you all know. But none of you have provided anything but talk.

I've talked to Bill extensively, seems like he will stand behind his product 100% and if it fails he will be there for any help. If anyone knows for a fact otherwise, not heresy, please talk about your experience.

But as it seems in this thread, it is just a bunch of sceptics. The trucks I know of that run the batmo, run great with the batmo.

SHughes
12-11-2011, 12:04 PM
But as it seems in this thread, it is just a bunch of sceptics. The trucks I know of that run the batmo, run great with the batmo.

And there you have it!

JQmile
12-11-2011, 12:16 PM
But your sig says otherwise?... :)

That's only cause my poor lil VE is out of fuel so low on the rpm scale. Most other trucks in the diesel market can make power well past my rpm range. I think they have since come out with a 2.5-inch S400 for the pullers. I'd probably try that if I had it to do over, just to be safe.

NickTF
12-11-2011, 12:26 PM
There are some facebook posts on Bullseye's page regarding power gained with a batmoswap. For whatever it is worth my opinion is the compressor is worth a few hp all things the same. The key example to me was Woehlers DSM which gained around 40-50hp with nothing more than a swap from a cast 75 wheel to a batmowheel 75 same everything else. Ofcourse this was on a 1000+hp motor. The problem I have is you're talking a 5% gain for an extra $1000 dollars. That is quite a bit of lute!

SHughes
12-11-2011, 12:33 PM
loot

Kind
12-11-2011, 12:43 PM
The problem I have is you're talking a 5% gain for an extra $1000 dollars. That is quite a bit of lute!

I paid $1600 cdn for one new S366 double batmo with stainless turbine housing. You would be implying I picked up a brand new S300 for $600 lol

Or am I misunderstanding you?

chevota84
12-11-2011, 12:53 PM
About $750 for a new stock s300. What's a "double batmo"?


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Kind
12-11-2011, 01:03 PM
About $750 for a new stock s300. What's a "double batmo"?


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

BatMoWheel and BatMoCover. They are separate purchases.

$750 for a stock BW S300, how much for a Bullseye S300 frame?

Btp 2332
12-11-2011, 01:16 PM
I dont have a grand in my 475 batmo over a billet 475 of some sort? The price dif is around 400 give or take and I have wasted more then that on other stuff beleive me. I think we all have in this game. As far as spool up and street manors (all I have to go off of right now) my batmo 475 87 1.0 spools as good as my box stock 475 83. 90 did if not a pinch easier. I agree with what kind stated also that most of the negative feed is from ppl that just dont beleive the hype and thats 100% fine. What im still looking for, what a few of us in this thread are looking for is actual evidence, pros vs cons, those that I have talked to who have run them, or are running them etc have stated all pros for the most part. I wont ever name those people but the text messages and pms I have received have been pretty postive as far as spool over billet, peak hp, increase hp through out the power band, drag racing et's, sled puling, not changing any fueling mods and clearing the smoke better etc. Again not a pissing match by any means, just comparing and gathering information and greatly apprec all responses. I wish it wasnt 19* here or I would be at the track testing

NickTF
12-11-2011, 01:17 PM
I have priced these out. In an s475 you're looking around an extra $1000 give or take $100 or so. The double bat wheel adds another $150 or so putting you near or over $1000 additional.

Kind, you can in fact pick up a bone stock 366 with a t4 housing for $650 ish although it will not bolt right up given the full marmon flange and hose discharge.

NickTF
12-11-2011, 01:21 PM
Sure thing David:

Nick:

That turbo runs $2000.00, your price will be $1900.00 plus $50.00 freight.

Regards,

Bill Devine
Sales/Marketing Manager
Bullseye Power LLC
231 571 8424
Bullseye Power Selector (http://www.bullseyepower.com)

NickTF
12-11-2011, 01:21 PM
The double bat adds $142.00 to that turbo.

Regards,

Bill Devine
Sales/Marketing Manager
Bullseye Power LLC
231 571 8424
Bullseye Power Selector (http://www.bullseyepower.com)

NickTF
12-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Last time I checked ~$2000 - ~$1000 is ~$1000 lmao

Yes, they are both 83mm turbine equipped chargers. That bat does include a race cover but you can have a race cover on a cast 74 for around $1000-$1100 so far as my challenged mind understands.

Btp 2332
12-11-2011, 01:33 PM
I dont know what your trying to compare Nick but im not interested in a 366 or even comparing that to a 475 batmo? The latest and greatest billet 480 87 and batmo 480 87 is around $400 dif give or take. I know what the price diference is because I already priced it so??????? Not going to argue with you but it sure isnt close to a grand that your saying.

NickTF
12-11-2011, 01:38 PM
I'm providing evidence to support my previous comment stated in post 41. There is no argument to make against said evidence. I'm not comparing billet wheel chargers i'm comparing the price difference for the 50hp achieved in Woehler's setup.

Blacksdieselhp
12-11-2011, 01:42 PM
There is no doubt a LOT of hyped up parts and snake oil in the diesel industry. But the batmowheel isnt one of them. If we hadnt ran it back to back against other chargers, Id probably think the same thing as some of you. But we have real world results and video/time slips to back it up.

Arons truck went from 11.20 with a clipped 475 2.6 turbo to a 10.90 with a 466 batmo. Same turbo, just a wheel and cover swap. And thats back to back runs, same day, nothing else changed. My 4wd, went 10.80 on a billet 478. Bolted on the 475 batmo and it went 10.53. So they definatley make more power than the regular billet wheel. As far as failures, they may be more prone to failing because of the longer nose and heavier wheel, but we have personally never had one fail. And I've hit them pretty hard with nx.

JQmile
12-11-2011, 01:51 PM
There is no doubt a LOT of hyped up parts and snake oil in the diesel industry. But the batmowheel isnt one of them. If we hadnt ran it back to back against other chargers, Id probably think the same thing as some of you. But we have real world results and video/time slips to back it up.

Arons truck went from 11.20 with a clipped 475 2.6 turbo to a 10.90 with a 466 batmo. Same turbo, just a wheel and cover swap. And thats back to back runs, same day, nothing else changed. My 4wd, went 10.80 on a billet 478. Bolted on the 475 batmo and it went 10.53. So they definatley make more power than the regular billet wheel. As far as failures, they may be more prone to failing because of the longer nose and heavier wheel, but we have personally never had one fail. And I've hit them pretty hard with nx.

Good post.

Smokem
12-11-2011, 01:54 PM
Anyone swap just the wheel? Say 75mm billet to 75mm billet? A cover modification could also be part of the equation, and much more rational.

Blacksdieselhp
12-11-2011, 01:57 PM
By the way, the clipped 2.6 was a $4000+ turbo from a big name company. The batmo turbo cost almost half that.

NickTF
12-11-2011, 01:58 PM
Anyone swap just the wheel? Say 75mm billet to 75mm billet? A cover modification could also be part of the equation, and much more rational.

Pretty sure Mark Broviak has but on a 475 primary not a single. Perhaps he will chime in.

Btp 2332
12-11-2011, 02:59 PM
Thanks Ashley, the information you gave me before is why I even bought one to try. Dads just looking for an edge, you know him.

Smokem
12-12-2011, 02:19 PM
Just heard Batmo to standard billet wheel gained 11hp, no filter single charger, same cover.

zstroken
12-12-2011, 02:31 PM
Just heard Batmo to standard billet wheel gained 11hp, no filter single charger, same cover.


Which wheel?


The numbers I have heard tossed around are around 3-5% increased flow.

Smokem
12-12-2011, 03:40 PM
75mm

Legendarydslper
12-12-2011, 04:05 PM
I was told that most of the failures involving the batmo chargers where due to the turbo manufacturer defect. Something along the lines of over hardening of the shaft and it becoming brittle if you will. I'm no metalurgist so take it for what its worth.

Legendarydslper
12-12-2011, 04:08 PM
And I thought double bats where modification on the inducer and exducer side of the compressor wheel.

DRTurbo
12-12-2011, 04:20 PM
I was told that most of the failures involving the batmo chargers where due to the turbo manufacturer defect. Something along the lines of over hardening of the shaft and it becoming brittle if you will. I'm no metalurgist so take it for what its worth.

The shafts and BW parts have no such problems. Beware of that messenger.

Legendarydslper
12-12-2011, 04:55 PM
How can you say for certain that there was not an issue? Has Borg never had one quality control problem? Do we have proof that a batmo equiped charger is less durable than a standard billet charger?

Just seems like there is a lot of he said she said on these things and its pretty interesting. Just want some cold hard facts

DRTurbo
12-12-2011, 05:07 PM
How can you say for certain that there was not an issue? Has Borg never had one quality control problem? Do we have proof that a batmo equiped charger is less durable than a standard billet charger?

Just seems like there is a lot of he said she said on these things and its pretty interesting. Just want some cold hard facts

If you want I can put you in touch with some of the engineers at BW, or the head one if you like. We test MANY units and have never seen a repetitive shaft failure due to a manufacturing problem from BW or Garrett or Holset...etc, and we test them to purposely explode them for other testing parameters, which if their was a shaft issue it would have definitely arose by now. Now over spinning or just plain not balancing is another issue. If it wipes the shaft out because of that, its not a manufacturing defect, but assembly defect due to balancing or just plain running a turbo outside its limits.

SHughes
12-12-2011, 05:18 PM
since it was brought up....I learned back when I began learning about turbos that the entire rotating assembly must be a ballanced unit. Which makes perfect sense to me. What does not make sense is swapping a wheel and the assemlby remaining balanced.

Or is my thought process flawed? It usually is. LOL
CompD Mobile Device

DRTurbo
12-12-2011, 05:27 PM
since it was brought up....I learned back when I began learning about turbos that the entire rotating assembly must be a ballanced unit. Which makes perfect sense to me. What does not make sense is swapping a wheel and the assemlby remaining balanced.

Or is my thought process flawed? It usually is. LOL
CompD Mobile Device



Yes flawed.....ONLY way to zero balance a turbo is by ASSEMBLY balance only BY reference as well. The wheel and shaft have to be referenced to each other as well, and some units require the wheel, nut and shaft have to be referenced. Component balancing is not effective.....same thing as balancing a rotating assembly for your motor, then merely throwing a new crank in, or using the same crank and throwing new rods in. Now can it be done.....yes, can you get lucky and a turbo survive, .....yes, would I take the chance....umm no. To much money at stake.

tcalvin
12-12-2011, 05:55 PM
I had a batmo S366 failure in less than 300 miles. It was a shaft failure supposedly due to overspeed and or high drive pressure. Bill, at Bullseye Power, took care of me. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with the folks at Bullseye again.

Btp 2332
12-12-2011, 05:57 PM
I think yours is one of the ones I was reading about, where you hitting it with spray?

tcalvin
12-12-2011, 06:24 PM
I think yours is one of the ones I was reading about, where you hitting it with spray?

I had before. When it failed, I was just driving home from work. The nitrous may have done some irreparable damage in the few instances it was actually used.

NickTF
12-12-2011, 10:44 PM
Just heard Batmo to standard billet wheel gained 11hp, no filter single charger, same cover.

Wouldn't the different contours of the wheels require use of a cover designed for each to be 100% optimal? Or are the contours near identical between the wheels tested? I just want to make certain there is nothing missed in the comparison or atleast try to do so.

Smokem
12-13-2011, 01:49 PM
Why would the cover need to be altered to accept a different leading edge? A 75mm profile is a 75mm profile, I don't care how Batmo(E) it is.

DRTurbo
12-13-2011, 01:59 PM
Why would the cover need to be altered to accept a different leading edge? A 75mm profile is a 75mm profile, I don't care how Batmo(E) it is.

Correct, both wheels are the same contour, so covers are interchangeable.

NickTF
12-13-2011, 02:05 PM
Ok, I was not certain hence the question. Thanks!

SHughes
12-13-2011, 02:21 PM
Yes flawed.....ONLY way to zero balance a turbo is by ASSEMBLY balance only BY reference as well. The wheel and shaft have to be referenced to each other as well, and some units require the wheel, nut and shaft have to be referenced. Component balancing is not effective.....same thing as balancing a rotating assembly for your motor, then merely throwing a new crank in, or using the same crank and throwing new rods in. Now can it be done.....yes, can you get lucky and a turbo survive, .....yes, would I take the chance....umm no. To much money at stake.


I thought that was what I meant. LOL

After I retire form the Air Force and get a degree in fluid mechanics can I have a job? LOL

nwpadmax
12-16-2011, 10:57 AM
Why would the cover need to be altered to accept a different leading edge? A 75mm profile is a 75mm profile, I don't care how Batmo(E) it is.

That may be true in this case but that is not always a guarantee with other brands.

Smokem
12-16-2011, 11:49 AM
That may be true in this case but that is not always a guarantee with other brands.

Understandable, but we are speaking of this case.

nwpadmax
12-16-2011, 12:41 PM
Oh, OK....so batmowheels are made to a common BW profile....so you can drop a batmo in a BW cover of the same size....but if you drop it in a Garrett, you need a cover because the profile isn't the same.

Do I got that right?

Smokem
12-16-2011, 12:46 PM
I see what you are saying, and yes. The inducer/exducer profiles will often vary quite a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer.

MarkBroviak
12-29-2011, 11:41 PM
Here it is! The Billet ! - Page 11 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together (http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109138&highlight=batmowheel&page=11)

post #203 has the dyno graph of back to back testing of 75mm billet vs. 75mm BMW for those asking for the info.

Btp 2332
12-30-2011, 06:03 PM
Thanks Mark

TrailerproPop
12-30-2011, 10:07 PM
Here it is! The Billet ! - Page 11 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together (http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109138&highlight=batmowheel&page=11)

post #203 has the dyno graph of back to back testing of 75mm billet vs. 75mm BMW for those asking for the info.

I believe you are confused Mark. Those two runs had the same wheel, only the cover was changed.

nwpadmax
12-31-2011, 10:21 AM
I believe you are confused Mark. Those two runs had the same wheel, only the cover was changed.

Then the labeling on the graph is wrong, eh?

Both say "BMC cover" and the wheel names are the only difference on the printout.

We either have a 57 HP cover or 57 HP wheel.

TrailerproPop
12-31-2011, 10:55 AM
Then the labeling on the graph is wrong, eh?

Both say "BMC cover" and the wheel names are the only difference on the printout.

We either have a 57 HP cover or 57 HP wheel.


I think I'm confused too. I am quite sure however, the high hp. run was with a 3.0 cover and the only run with a 3.0 cover.

nwpadmax
12-31-2011, 11:11 AM
So they only lost 57hp by necking down to a 2.6" NADM-style cover? Pretty good.

syrupdawg
12-31-2011, 01:38 PM
Im confused now...

Btp 2332
12-31-2011, 01:52 PM
me to