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View Full Version : How to turn up a 3406E?


Got Smoke?
08-31-2012, 02:50 PM
1998 Peterbilt 3406E, whats the best cost efficient way to turn them up?

lorendiesel5.9
08-31-2012, 03:00 PM
Fuel temp resistor gives them an extra 50hp.

mkoontz1
08-31-2012, 03:01 PM
Pittsburgh Power box..

chevota84
08-31-2012, 03:11 PM
Fuel temp resistor gives them an extra 50hp.

6999 trim codes will give you another 40 or 50.

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chevota84
08-31-2012, 04:57 PM
Another thing, depending on what the stock settings are you can have cat flash a different program in it, the 550 heavy haul program runs real good. There's also programs floating around on the net that you can get flashed like the Australian programs but unless you know your dealer real well you'll have to find a private guy to flash those.

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dirty_max
08-31-2012, 09:40 PM
if your in good with a dealer, they can put trim codes in, ive not heard of 6999, but i know theres many that work. they can also change your fls fts numbers if they know the special numbers and know how to wash an ecm, for free. having a rerate done is like 400 to 450 i do believe. fuel temp and inlet air temp sensors work well too. be very careful with bullydog or pittsburgh power, they can do a lot of damgage real fast if you dont watch what your doin. we had one melt down on our dyno one day cuz they were playing with their bullydog on it

dzchey21
08-31-2012, 10:09 PM
Honestly if the truck is a 550 just leave it alone...

Some of the new flashes Ect don't seam.to actually net anymore power on the dyno

dirty_max
08-31-2012, 10:38 PM
Honestly if the truck is a 550 just leave it alone...

Some of the new flashes Ect don't seam.to actually net anymore power on the dyno

you are right but different fls/fts numbers and injectors trim codes will get you a little more

jfaulkner
08-31-2012, 11:52 PM
PDI and forget it. Have 3 done and they will bury a PP box. 700hp to the tires and does NOT get hot. Another option is there is a modified 7CZ 600hp file around that had the timing bumped that runs really well. Can get that done cheaper than the PDI tune if you don't want as much power.

Is yours a 40pin ECM (5EK prefix) or a 70pin (2WS prefix)? Changing injector trim codes can add a little. The fuel temp mod adds a little also but only until the fuel actually gets hot.

Stay away from Cat all they will do is charge you to flash a low NoX file in your ECM and you will not be happy.

dirty_max
09-01-2012, 12:40 AM
well that all depends on what cat dealer you go to and how well you know them. i know there are a lot of bad ones out there, but we can uprate, change fls/fts, and injector trim codes for free, depending on how well we like that customer. speaking of pdi, do you know if you hhave to send the ecm to them? i know we have put a couple pdi manifolds on for guys and im not real happy with how they fit, thats all i know about them. by the way jfaulkner, i love that pic haha

6.4 F-350
09-01-2012, 01:08 AM
Be careful though some serial #'s of the e models like to break cranks and window blocks.

Bullrack
09-01-2012, 01:34 AM
PDI and forget it. Have 3 done and they will bury a PP box. 700hp to the tires and does NOT get hot. Another option is there is a modified 7CZ 600hp file around that had the timing bumped that runs really well. Can get that done cheaper than the PDI tune if you don't want as much power.

Is yours a 40pin ECM (5EK prefix) or a 70pin (2WS prefix)? Changing injector trim codes can add a little. The fuel temp mod adds a little also but only until the fuel actually gets hot.

Stay away from Cat all they will do is charge you to flash a low NoX file in your ECM and you will not be happy.

Listen to this guy, he's not steering you wrong! You want to talk yellow motor, ask him and follow directions carefully.

jfaulkner
09-01-2012, 09:49 AM
well that all depends on what cat dealer you go to and how well you know them. i know there are a lot of bad ones out there, but we can uprate, change fls/fts, and injector trim codes for free, depending on how well we like that customer. speaking of pdi, do you know if you hhave to send the ecm to them? i know we have put a couple pdi manifolds on for guys and im not real happy with how they fit, thats all i know about them. by the way jfaulkner, i love that pic haha

Anyone with Cat ET can change trim codes and there are PLENTY of guys with factory cat flash files that can also change the fls/fts but if you really want to make them run you need modified flash files.

There are a couple of modified files that got leaked and have spread around, one will brick your ECM. That's why you have to know who your dealing with. The 7CZ file (70pin ecm) that's made it to a few people's hard drives was modified by Jared (owner of PDI) a LONG time ago and was leaked and runs really well. There is also a modded Acert file (120pin) I've heard about that get's the same reviews.

Bottom line the ONLY way to get big power without changing any hard parts (cam, injectors ect) is to have someone flash your ECM with a good file. By good I mean NOTHING you'll be able to get at a dealer, all their files are the latest EPA files that will totally castrate your truck. The other way is to swap the cam and bigger injectors.

As far as having your ECM flashed by PDI you don't have to sent your ECM off, you can just find your local dealer and they now have the ability to flash Cat/Cummins while you wait (Detroit is in the works).

chevota84
09-01-2012, 11:43 AM
^^^you can change trim codes with a pro link as well.

The 6999 codes work good for me but some guys have said they don't like the way they idle. I believe 5232 are the alternate codes.

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dirty_max
09-01-2012, 02:49 PM
^^^you can change trim codes with a pro link as well.

The 6999 codes work good for me but some guys have said they don't like the way they idle. I believe 5232 are the alternate codes.

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yea 5232 is what i like to use.

dirty_max
09-01-2012, 02:57 PM
Anyone with Cat ET can change trim codes and there are PLENTY of guys with factory cat flash files that can also change the fls/fts but if you really want to make them run you need modified flash files.

There are a couple of modified files that got leaked and have spread around, one will brick your ECM. That's why you have to know who your dealing with. The 7CZ file (70pin ecm) that's made it to a few people's hard drives was modified by Jared (owner of PDI) a LONG time ago and was leaked and runs really well. There is also a modded Acert file (120pin) I've heard about that get's the same reviews.

Bottom line the ONLY way to get big power without changing any hard parts (cam, injectors ect) is to have someone flash your ECM with a good file. By good I mean NOTHING you'll be able to get at a dealer, all their files are the latest EPA files that will totally castrate your truck. The other way is to swap the cam and bigger injectors.

As far as having your ECM flashed by PDI you don't have to sent your ECM off, you can just find your local dealer and they now have the ability to flash Cat/Cummins while you wait (Detroit is in the works).

i agree a modified flash file would be the best way to make good power but how much does it cost? cuz i believe that the original request was most cost efficient , which to me means whats the cheapest way. and as long as you have all the old flash files, which are not the latest epa flash files, im guessing that would be pretty cheap. just a guess cuz i dont know what pdi costs

jfaulkner
09-01-2012, 05:59 PM
i agree a modified flash file would be the best way to make good power but how much does it cost? cuz i believe that the original request was most cost efficient , which to me means whats the cheapest way. and as long as you have all the old flash files, which are not the latest epa flash files, im guessing that would be pretty cheap. just a guess cuz i dont know what pdi costs

The guy I know that does them charges $500 for an "in class" flash. Meaning if you "could" have had it done at Cat, like updating a 475 to 550hp. This is for an early non EPA flash. If you want something done that Cat would not do like flash a 435hp engine to 550/600hp. Or flash an MBN motor with a 6NZ/7CZ file it's like $800. PDI is quite a bit more but for some engines like the Acert there isn't a pre-EPA file so you have to go custom. Also if you want to delete ALL the emissions junk off a Cat/Cummins/Detroit custom is the only way to go.

PM me if your interested in the 600hp modded file and I'll give you more info.

PDI prices have recently went up because of the cost of making the tuning tools so dealers could flash the custom files instead of having to send the ECM to be done.

dirty_max
09-02-2012, 01:28 PM
haha yea i tried goin from 435 to 550 on an mbn once, ET wouldnt allow it

DieselDave1
10-06-2012, 02:51 AM
haha yea i tried goin from 435 to 550 on an mbn once, ET wouldnt allow it

I had my 94 5EK flash from a 435 to a 600 5DS file and what a difference. I already had the 58's injectors in it. Im putting the stage 1 B/W turbo tomorrow. Bought the turbo unassemble in 3 pieces plus 2 clamps and cost almost 1/2 the price from these performance shops. Without the stage 1 turbo, it has been FUN to drive. No heating problems what so ever. EGT's never above 900. Just been watching the manifold pressure due to still running the stock turbo and dont want to overspeed it. Can't wait to see once I install the stage 1 what it will do.

jfaulkner
10-06-2012, 09:51 AM
I had my 94 5EK flash from a 435 to a 600 5DS file and what a difference. I already had the 58's injectors in it. Im putting the stage 1 B/W turbo tomorrow. Bought the turbo unassemble in 3 pieces plus 2 clamps and cost almost 1/2 the price from these performance shops. Without the stage 1 turbo, it has been FUN to drive. No heating problems what so ever. EGT's never above 900. Just been watching the manifold pressure due to still running the stock turbo and dont want to overspeed it. Can't wait to see once I install the stage 1 what it will do.
Was it just over $1200? That's what I've got them for before, and it's identical to the $2400 PDI charger but with no warranty. (if you paid me twice the price I would warranty it too :hehe:) On my 6NZ it builds around 40psi with a PDI stage 1 tune, only downfall was the larger exhaust housing kinda killed the jake performance and with dual external air cleaners it's f'ing loud so no driving with the windows down on a long pull.

atvracn08
10-06-2012, 11:18 AM
Diesel Freak, Performance Harnesses (http://www.dieselfreak.com/)

Have 750hp australian files aswell.

jfaulkner
10-11-2012, 03:35 AM
Diesel Freak, Performance Harnesses (http://www.dieselfreak.com/)

Have 750hp australian files aswell.

Lol! Wow $179 for a $0.05 fuel temp resistor?
I call BS on the "Australian files" as well!

SmokinCAT
10-11-2012, 05:35 AM
Lol! Wow $179 for a $0.05 fuel temp resistor?
I call BS on the "Australian files" as well!

But it is made by someone, so that makes it special.

I think I would stick to the factory HH file over anything, and I'm not sure where the 750 file would even come from, highest C16 file is 630hp, and I'm not even sure if that is a Aussie file or something out of a fire truck.

1-5-3-6-2-4
10-11-2012, 07:07 AM
No, there's higher than that available for the engines, but they're off-road applications.

Standard Oil field spec for a Series60 Detroit is 685 horse. Which is up from 630 in the 12.7L industrials.

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SmokinCAT
10-11-2012, 07:21 AM
Just went through arragement numbers on SIS for truck and industrial app C16 and 3456 engines, highest I came across was 660hp, and to say that one of those programs would work in a truck is a long shot. Anything higher is C18 range. Just throwing in factory programs without know what hard parts they came with is dumb.

For example, I have heard that antrim has a 365hp file that when put in a true 550hp engine will produce 725 at the ground, it all has to do with the parts you engine has in it.

1-5-3-6-2-4
10-11-2012, 07:23 AM
I'll get the sn for you when I get home. I took a picture of the data plate. It was a 7 hundred something rating I'm pretty sure though.

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SmokinCAT
10-11-2012, 07:34 AM
I'll get the sn for you when I get home. I took a picture of the data plate. It was a 7 hundred something rating I'm pretty sure though.

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Sweet, I will forsure look at it, and in all honesty it's hard to tell what is actually out there and what has been published by CAT.

1-5-3-6-2-4
10-11-2012, 07:45 AM
The highest c18 industrial that I recall working on was 990 horse. Didn't get that number though.

Sometimes when you're tired wet and cold working on the deck engine of a drilling rig with the push standing over your shoulder asking are you done yet every 5 seconds, important details like sn shots get overlooked. :what: :p

Oh hard parts are a must. If you don't match the cam, injectors and jugs to the file. It won't make what it says it is. Might be high or low. But it won't be accurate that's for sure.

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jfaulkner
10-11-2012, 09:11 AM
For example, I have heard that antrim has a 365hp file that when put in a true 550hp engine will produce 725 at the ground, it all has to do with the parts you engine has in it.
Kurt told me the same thing. People have tried flashing C18 files in a C15 and lost power. C18 has larger injectors and shorter duration, damn details get you every time! Lol

SmokinCAT
10-11-2012, 11:13 AM
Kurt told me the same thing. People have tried flashing C18 files in a C15 and lost power. C18 has larger injectors and shorter duration, damn details get you every time! Lol

Yep, take the 550hp 5ek, it has higher flowing injectors than any of the 600hp engines, and back to the C18 the injectors in the 950hp truck engine flow almost 30% more than a 550 injector.

1-5-3-6-2-4
10-11-2012, 11:27 AM
2008 C15 717hp

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r193/demon_044/Work%20stuff/HighhorseCAT717.jpg


2008 Series60 665hp

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r193/demon_044/Work%20stuff/HighhorseDetroit665.jpg

LReiff
10-11-2012, 11:46 AM
I've heard of guys running a 3176 ecm on their 3406e. Any huge benefits to this or has it been surpassed since ecm tuning has come so far?

SmokinCAT
10-11-2012, 12:09 PM
Can you PM me the serial on that C15.

chevota84
10-11-2012, 02:47 PM
I've heard of guys running a 3176 ecm on their 3406e. Any huge benefits to this or has it been surpassed since ecm tuning has come so far?

Better off with ecm tuning, the 3176 runs at different rpm's than a c15. They'll make more peak power but they run kind of goofy and don't work real well in real life.

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atvracn08
10-11-2012, 05:18 PM
Lol! Wow $179 for a $0.05 fuel temp resistor?
I call BS on the "Australian files" as well!

"Most" truckers don't want to cut up their factory wiring harness so they would prefer to just have a plug and play adjustable harness. And the fuel temp resistor only does so much... Think what you want about the australian cat calibrations. They're not impossible to obtain

atvracn08
10-11-2012, 05:37 PM
YouTube - Oak creek (http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=VIYp7zX-IK8)

This truck had the 725hp australian file and the adjustable harness with altered full throttle setting and full load setting numbers. Did 698hp and 2410tq on a chassis dyno

chevota84
10-11-2012, 05:40 PM
"Most" truckers don't want to cut up their factory wiring harness so they would prefer to just have a plug and play adjustable harness. And the fuel temp resistor only does so much... Think what you want about the australian cat calibrations. They're not impossible to obtain

Don't need to cut anything on a 2 wire sensor, just unplug it and stick a resistor in.

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atvracn08
10-11-2012, 05:48 PM
Don't need to cut anything on a 2 wire sensor, just unplug it and stick a resistor in.

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Just fooling the fuel temp sensor isn't worth that much hp, you've got to fool the map also. Again fleets and lots of owner ops want to just plug in and have it look factory. They don't like to have random sensors unplugged under the hood and open to the weather.

1-5-3-6-2-4
10-11-2012, 05:54 PM
Heres a "nonstock" C15 that a guy brought in and wanted run on the dyno. Did a consistant 838HP to the rears.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r193/demon_044/Big%20Trucks/C15cat838rwhp01.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r193/demon_044/Big%20Trucks/C15cat838rwhp02.jpg

this was the chassis dyno

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r193/demon_044/Big%20Trucks/Dyno.jpg

chevota84
10-11-2012, 06:11 PM
Just fooling the fuel temp sensor isn't worth that much hp, you've got to fool the map also. Again fleets and lots of owner ops want to just plug in and have it look factory. They don't like to have random sensors unplugged under the hood and open to the weather.

Map sensor won't give you anything but smoke. Fuel temp is 40-50hp

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atvracn08
10-11-2012, 06:25 PM
Map sensor won't give you anything but smoke. Fuel temp is 40-50hp

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Well that's your opinion. You keep doing it your way, that's fine with me.

oldestof11
10-11-2012, 06:27 PM
Heres a "nonstock" C15 that a guy brought in and wanted run on the dyno. Did a consistant 838HP to the rears.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r193/demon_044/Big%20Trucks/C15cat838rwhp01.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r193/demon_044/Big%20Trucks/C15cat838rwhp02.jpg

That looks a wee bit warm. :poke:

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chevota84
10-11-2012, 06:44 PM
Well that's your opinion. You keep doing it your way, that's fine with me.

No that's dyno proven numbers.

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atvracn08
10-11-2012, 06:54 PM
No that's dyno proven numbers.

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Yeah I realize that, that's why we fool that aswell. What ohm resistor do you use for the fuel temp? And what have you tried to do for the boost?

chevota84
10-11-2012, 07:31 PM
Yeah I realize that, that's why we fool that aswell. What ohm resistor do you use for the fuel temp? And what have you tried to do for the boost?

150 in the fuel temp and just a "smoke wire" in the map. It definitely has better response with the map fooled but there isn't any actual power there, the ecm doesn't change parameters past 15psi.

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atvracn08
10-11-2012, 07:35 PM
150 in the fuel temp and just a "smoke wire" in the map. It definitely has better response with the map fooled but there isn't any actual power there, the ecm doesn't change parameters past 15psi.

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The resistors for a 94-99 3406e?

chevota84
10-11-2012, 07:48 PM
The resistors for a 94-99 3406e?

99 2ws I haven't messed with a 3 wire sensor.

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SmokinCAT
10-11-2012, 08:27 PM
Map sensor won't give you anything but smoke. Fuel temp is 40-50hp

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Yep, its only good for smoke down low, a boost fooler has no benifit once the engine has reached full boost.

SmokinCAT
10-11-2012, 08:40 PM
YouTube - Oak creek (http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=VIYp7zX-IK8)

This truck had the 725hp australian file and the adjustable harness with altered full throttle setting and full load setting numbers. Did 698hp and 2410tq on a chassis dyno

Now let someone modify that tune and build the engine with a few parts upgrades to match.

There is a guy that has a C16 that is running a modified factory 600 file, the only modification to the file was the addition of 4* of timing, the truck has a set of balanced 800HP injectors in it with the 1000hp cam, he runs compunds and works it daily, truck dynoed 1637 at the ground back in may.

chevota84
10-11-2012, 08:45 PM
Now let someone modify that tune and build the engine with a few parts upgrades to match.

There is a guy that has a C16 that is running a modified factory 600 file, the only modification to the file was the addition of 4* of timing, the truck has a set of balanced 800HP injectors in it with the 1000hp cam, he runs compunds and works it daily, truck dynoed 1637 at the ground back in may.

Who is that?

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SmokinCAT
10-12-2012, 12:55 PM
Who is that?

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I think the guy goes by Doodle Blizzard, he was at antrims, but lost his LP turbo, went back home changed turbos went back to antrims after the contest was over and laid that number down.

chevota84
10-12-2012, 01:52 PM
I think the guy goes by Doodle Blizzard, he was at antrims, but lost his LP turbo, went back home changed turbos went back to antrims after the contest was over and laid that number down.

That's crazy, I thought Kurts 12xx was a lot of power.

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SmokinCAT
10-12-2012, 04:13 PM
That's crazy, I thought Kurts 12xx was a lot of power.

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Kurt did over 1500 this year, he is running a single HX82 now instead of the BW.

chevota84
10-12-2012, 04:54 PM
Kurt did over 1500 this year, he is running a single HX82 now instead of the BW.

Wow! I haven't talked to him in a couple years, is he still working it every day?

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chevota84
11-14-2012, 04:45 AM
Kurt did over 1500 this year, he is running a single HX82 now instead of the BW.

Just saw on another forum that he put down 1592 at pdi.

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