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View Full Version : Blue is the loneliest color...


Bersaglieri
11-02-2013, 08:49 PM
... or is it?

We always had Fords on our farm, aside from a Oliver 77 puller and free Farmall H. But were we just about the only people in the county running the old blues. I've read that Ford just didn't have the dealer network needed to move tractors like the other guys. But let's talk mechanics not economics.

How did Ford tractors stack up against the competitors? I'm talking the glory days, from the 1960s to 1980's. I've never dug deep into other tractors so how do Ford's motors, trans, and axles compare to everyone else? From what I've noticed they more HP per cubic inch compared to other tractors, sometime with a few less cylinders.

Or lets dig a little deeper, what about head flow and design? Crank, rod, and piston material and strength? Gear, shaft and axle material/strength?

I've always been curious and don't have the resources do find out what's inside the old Olivers, IH, Deeres, Case, and Masseys.

mfsuper90
12-17-2013, 09:16 PM
More hp per cubic inch isn't too hard to achieve against competitors, but if your pushing the engine just a little harder than your competitors will it last as long? Just a thought

Probably the worst thing ford did was make their Simms pumps a seperate oil system. I know of a handful of people off the top of my head that have junk IP's because no one use to change the oil in them :duh:

As far as head design, I believe ford used cross flow heads on most of their tractors, which is always a plus if trying to make power. Most of my ford tractor knowledge escapes me at the moment, it's been awhile since I tinkered with one.
Masseys are more my thing :rockwoot: but as long as it's not JD green I can deal with it :thumbsup:

Bersaglieri
12-17-2013, 10:35 PM
What did the MF's have going for them? I know of at least one local farm that does only MF stuff, but them seem even more rare than the blue ones.

mfsuper90
12-18-2013, 10:09 PM
Perkins is a really good engine. The MF 35 was one of the most fuel effecient tractors until the 90's. They also never had much trans or reared issues either.
The dry brakes pre 1970s pretty much sucked, but they weren't unbearable. Wet brakes solved that problem though. The multipower was a fairly reliable way to split power without clutching it if you needed a little boost. The super 90 was really the only tractor that had problems with the multipower. The rockshafts pre 70s worked great the first 30years, but now days don't work.

All we run is Massey and we get along okay, no matter what you have they all break down sooner or later. Massey also has there models to stay away from, as any manufacture.

Pulling1066
05-20-2014, 03:43 PM
I would go Perkins!!

Big Boy Toys
05-20-2014, 04:50 PM
I've got a little 255 and a 1085, bought both new in the 80's. Both are completely stock and other than an injector pump on the 255 have been trouble free. Also have a 850 combine we bought new that has been great also. I still use it once in awhile in some tiny fields.

Signature600
05-20-2014, 04:55 PM
Ford usually had more power on a lighter rear end than most of their competitors did...New Holland still does. Not good for longevity in a hard work scenario.

Massey's historically have been GREAT small tractors, popular wherever there was water close by to freight them in from across the pond. Their bigger tractors had some nice features, but certain models did have problems, as did ALL manufacturers. They have endured through the AGCO lineage, and through overseas sales. I believe it was 38 years running that Massey was the worlds #1 selling tractor brand. It took Fiat combining Case-IH and New Holland together to top them. They are imported into 95+ different countries.

Oliver have always been excellent tractors, more popular in the north and up into Canada. Closer to where they were made. Good reliable engines, decent power, and top notch transmissions. They used the same basic transmission design from the mid 60's to the mid 90's, because it flat worked, was tough, and people liked it.

Case was always the big cubic inch power house before being combined with IH, but their transmissions and rear ends gave them some trouble. Also, slow on the road, and noisy cabs from that big engine turned off a lot of people. Dealer distribution was usually a problem as well, as they had lots of "Company" stores blowing inventory out for big discounts. Hard to be profitable like that, which is mostly why they were bought out/merged with International.

How's that for a quick semi-history lesson?

Where are you in Ohio?
Chris

Bersaglieri
05-20-2014, 11:28 PM
Not bad Sig600.

I'm about an hour southeast of you. I actually was checking out tractors and Green and Son's up the road from you a couple weeks ago.

Signature600
05-21-2014, 07:27 AM
tractordata.com is a fairly decent site with different specs on all the brands. Gives you some weights, engine specs, even links to the old Nebraska tests if they have them.

I use it all the time for the old stuff.

If you ever get up through the area, and want to compare or see some of the older iron from the 70's back, we've got a fair selection covered in the barn. Oliver, Minneapolis, a few Cases, Deeres, IHs, and Masseys and a slew of AC.
Chris

06 DIESEL
05-21-2014, 10:36 AM
Here are some pictures of Chris' collection

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138620

Signature600
05-21-2014, 05:24 PM
Some of those are out of date...our collection is dynamic.

We have sold about 12-15 in the last couple months, but I think we've bought about the same. Getting more into Oliver's lately. We have about all the A/C's we want, minus about 3.

Chris

Bersaglieri
05-21-2014, 07:12 PM
tractordata.com is a fairly decent site with different specs on all the brands. Gives you some weights, engine specs, even links to the old Nebraska tests if they have them.

I use it all the time for the old stuff.

If you ever get up through the area, and want to compare or see some of the older iron from the 70's back, we've got a fair selection covered in the barn. Oliver, Minneapolis, a few Cases, Deeres, IHs, and Masseys and a slew of AC.
Chris

Ya, I cruise tractor data for the basics, it's a pretty helpful tool.

I'd gladly swing over and check some out, I'm a big fan of older stuff. Not sure if you can see my avatar well, but that's our family taking the Fords to a pull back when 8000's and 9000's were the new thing.

Shoot me your number in a PM and when nights are good. I might be going to Green and Son's soon since I'm in need of a utility tractor to mow with.

On the topic what's the background on AC's? No farms I ever worked on ever had them, but they certainly have a following.

Signature600
05-21-2014, 07:41 PM
They have a very strong following here in the Midwest, withing rail shipping distance from Milwaukee. As far as background, they were the first to do a number of things in Agriculture. First Turbocharger, depending on whose timeline you use they had the first 100hp tractor, and first Load Sensing hydraulics...Most of the features they pioneered, are standard features on most tractors today. One of the other brands would have you believe they invented these things, but those are simply not the facts.

The longstanding belief is that Allis Chalmers would still be here today if they had not started selling off all their profitable divisions to keep the Ag division afloat. They had just released on of the most advanced tractor designs of the times in 1982 with the 8000 Series tractors, which unfortunately was roughly the same time that the farm economy started to crash. Bad timing for an expensive new tractor that was 10 years ahead of it's time. Some will say this is just an opinion, but it is one shared by many, and by fans of all colors.

If they could have endured through the later 80's, when the farm economy started to rebound, those same tractors would have still been advanced for another 5-7 years. Hell, they are still holding up very well today, and although lacking the electronic features, and maybe the hydraulic capacity of the newer models, they have many of the same features that available today.

From those days of the last Orange paint though, came what some call the dark days of the German reign and green paint. However, as a dealer, we missed being an Allis Chalmers dealer by a few months, and signed up with Deutz-Allis in November 1986, selling a TON of leftover AC orange equipment, and also more Air cooled powered Deutz-Allis tractors than anyone in the country. We have the plaques to prove that. We loved those days, and they were good to us. Those tractors still have a following due to their reliability, and extremely good fuel consumption. We waited more than 10 years to get back an engine with the power and economy that the air cooled Deutz's gave us.

From their we continue on to AGCO, which is a whole history unto itself. They had had their problems, however no one can argue with their successful growth in such a relatively small time frame compared to other companies. Their first year they had sales of $100 million, of which my father's sales were 1% of that total....only 20 years later in 2010, they had sales of a little over $6 Billion, and in 2014 they were just shy of $10 Billion. However, no one within their organization that I know of will disagree that they still have things to work on.



I guess I got quite a bit off topic, but hope you all don't mind. And before anyone starts Googling to correct my numbers, I'm going from memory, so cut me some slack.

Chris