Question for you guys on big water systems

[VMAX]

Last night I gave my new to me water system a quarter mile pass and it seemed to put out the fire around the top of 2nd. Truck bucked and cut in and out. I verified this being the issue by turning the water off on the next pass and had no issues. I have the option of cutting down pressure or nozzle size. I think nozzle size would be wise but looking for some verification here.

System is the schieds stand alone kit running 650 psi. It is actuated with a Hobbs switch at 50psi. 6 nozzles feeding intake runners. Not sure of the nozzle size I bought the kit used from a puller. I benched tested about 3 quarts should be injected on a 10 second pass.

[madmikeismad]

I had a setup once that sprayed about that much (just for experimentation). I couldn't keep it from going screwy unless I was at absolute full power/wot.

I think smaller nozzles would work better, that way you can keep up your pressure and atomization (right word for this?). And they're super cheap. but If you can cut pressure first to test it for free, might as well try it.

[Bponci]

What size nozzles you running?

[chevota84]

Could you just restrict the feed line a little?

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[madmikeismad]

Could you just restrict the feed line a little?

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Wouldn't that cut flow AND pressure at the nozzle a lot?

[chevota84]

Dunno, are they poppet nozzles or are they just open?

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[CREED1]

Max see what size nozzles are in it. Ive got 2 spare sets at the house ill have to check size on them tonight when i get home maybe one them will be smaller than what you have.

[VMAX]

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab229/vmax2005/20140105_094017.jpg


http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab229/vmax2005/20140105_093949.jpg


http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab229/vmax2005/20140105_093938.jpg

[VMAX]

All I have is the 21 stamped on the side of them. 21gph is my guess? I did many test hits on the street with this setup and it did fine but I was no able to air it out as long as I did at the track. Apparently it does fine but actually extinguishes the burn after a while.

Thanks Chris, might hit you up to experiment some. Or just find a good nozzle builder and get a set made for my setup.

[Joesixpack]

How did the track time compare? On the dyno what I thought was a reasonable amount of water pulled 100hp.

[VMAX]

How did the track time compare? On the dyno what I thought was a reasonable amount of water pulled 100hp.

Honestly I don't have any good Data on this yet. But once everything is dialed in I should be able to do some on off comparisons.

[Joesixpack]

Its most likely just to much flow, dropping pressure would be the quick way to check. But ideally I think that 650+ is where you want to be.

[VMAX]

I get that it is too much flow. I wanted to make sure smaller nozzle is the best route compared to dropping pressure.

Do you guys think the 21 is GPH?

[Extended Power]

My opinion, keeping the pressure high would be more important than the flow.
I would drop nozzle size to cut the flow back, while keeping the pressure high. (Like mentioned, keep the injection in a mist state, instead of a droplet state. Atomization.)

[JerrodGlover]

21 is the size of the orifice in this case .21 You can order them in any size you want from http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Nozzle_Jets.htm at 600 lbs you will inject the right number in cc's of water over 15 seconds the left number is the size of the orifice.
13-90
14-100
16-110
18-130
20-180
22-195
24-210
26-300
28-300
30-380
32-390
34-560
36-560
38-690
40-740
42-750

[VMAX]

21 is the size of the orifice in this case .21 You can order them in any size you want from http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Nozzle_Jets.htm at 600 lbs you will inject the right number in cc's of water over 15 seconds the left number is the size of the orifice.
13-90
14-100
16-110
18-130
20-180
22-195
24-210
26-300
28-300
30-380
32-390
34-560
36-560
38-690
40-740
42-750

Well damn we are on the small side of that scale it seems.

[12vriviera]

But you have 6 of them, one at each port. I think you were doing just fine, that and it was 60 degrees cooler Friday night than must summer time racing you will do.

And those are alcohol nozzles,, lot more fuel necessary in an alcohol setup, than water you need....

[Somethinfierce]

I would 100% agree with extended power. Keep the pressure high otherwise the mist will turn to droplets. I know drag racing is a lot different than pulling but we only use about 40oz in 15 sec in our puller. 96oz in 10sec is a ton!

[Cummins12Club]

I would 100% agree with extended power. Keep the pressure high otherwise the mist will turn to droplets. I know drag racing is a lot different than pulling but we only use about 40oz in 15 sec in our puller. 96oz in 10sec is a ton!

The engines are pretty similar in both applications

[UNBROKEN]

Open sesame

[SmokinCAT]

I would 100% agree with extended power. Keep the pressure high otherwise the mist will turn to droplets. I know drag racing is a lot different than pulling but we only use about 40oz in 15 sec in our puller. 96oz in 10sec is a ton!

What exhaust temps do you shoot for with the water on?

Also what the purpose of the check valve in the system and what sort of pressure does it need to be rated at?

[AHall]

That is a ton. I found that (6) 100ml/min nozzles move 2400ml/min @ 1200psi. 13.5fl/oz per 10 sec.

Although it doesn't sound like much, this is a visual example of a single nozzle in the six port system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGEBOH4tT0

[97rada]

Watching for later. Need to get mine setup here in the coming months

[WUnderwood]

Where are you injecting the water? In the intake shelf?


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[CREED1]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160701/7e9697c01ea3eb436e7fcb4826506fb6.jpg

Water inj setup on my new truck.. 6 nozzles one per cylinder .022 jets currently. Hydraulic pump driven off back of gear case pumps to simpson valve set to bring water in at 30psi, water then goes into rail system and then out of rail to each nozzle.

[Mooner1]

Dude...that is slick as hell. 6 nozzles or 12? I see you said 6, I just see 12 lines. Dual inlet nozzles? Either way, nice work man.

[Phooker]

12 nozzles...6 for water...

[CREED1]

12 nozzles...6 for water...



http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160701/c6eaec60f3711b0189c7734af5ae3662.jpg

[SmokinCAT]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160701/7e9697c01ea3eb436e7fcb4826506fb6.jpg

Water inj setup on my new truck.. 6 nozzles one per cylinder .022 jets currently. Hydraulic pump driven off back of gear case pumps to simpson valve set to bring water in at 30psi, water then goes into rail system and then out of rail to each nozzle.

What did they shoot for to run the EGTs at on a full power run?

[CREED1]

What did they shoot for to run the EGTs at on a full power run?



Have not got this system on this truck dialed in yet literally have 2 burnouts and a shakedown pass under our belt with it. Same system on my other truck keeps things right around 1600 on fuel , 1800 on nitrous.

[SmokinCAT]

Have not got this system on this truck dialed in yet literally have 2 burnouts and a shakedown pass under our belt with it. Same system on my other truck keeps things right around 1600 on fuel , 1800 on nitrous.

Thank you, I'm working on trying to piece together a system for my semi, have no idea of where to even start with water flow. Mine will only be 3 nozzles at the inlet port of the heads.

I still don't understand how a check valve comes into play, I know most high pressure systems use them, but don't know where it needs to be placed.

[97rada]

I don't see the need for a check valve either. I know I would love to see a diagram of a system of they do need one

[SmokinCAT]

I don't see the need for a check valve either. I know I would love to see a diagram of a system of they do need one

Unless it's to hold line pressure between nozzles and pump.

[97rada]

Unless it's to hold line pressure between nozzles and pump.



The system I will be running does not need anything like that. It makes pressure fast, I guess one wouldn't hurt on the suction line just to hold prime

[VMAX]

Mine ended up with a 50psi hobs switch six 0.24 nozzles one per cylinder and one .020 post intercooler. Eats almost 3/4 gallon per pass. Helped with EGTS allot. All though my motor always ran hot. Thankfully it is getting rebuilt

20140926_213450.jpg Photo by vmax2005 | Photobucket

[VMAX]

Can't even post photos anymore. A little rusty lol

[97rada]

Mine ended up with a 50psi hobs switch six 0.24 nozzles one per cylinder and one .020 post intercooler. Eats almost 3/4 gallon per pass. Helped with EGTS allot. All though my motor always ran hot. Thankfully it is getting rebuilt

20140926_213450.jpg Photo by vmax2005 | Photobucket (http://s866.photobucket.com/user/vmax2005/media/20140926_213450.jpg.html)



Did power ever pick up

[VMAX]

I don't know honestly. Never ran it without water and always changing crap lol. Motor never made good power.

[VMAX]

Have not got this system on this truck dialed in yet literally have 2 burnouts and a shakedown pass under our belt with it. Same system on my other truck keeps things right around 1600 on fuel , 1800 on nitrous.

You had way smaller nozzles and an electric pump before?

[SmokinCAT]

The system I will be running does not need anything like that. It makes pressure fast, I guess one wouldn't hurt on the suction line just to hold prime

I mean to keep the nozzles from draining after the pump is off.

[AHall]

Helps prevent/reduce drizzling volume.

[SmokinCAT]

Helps prevent/reduce drizzling volume.

Would the nozzle holders with the built in check valves serve the same purpose?

[CREED1]

You had way smaller nozzles and an electric pump before?



Way more fuel now....

[CREED1]

Would the nozzle holders with the built in check valves serve the same purpose?



Depends on what style pump your planning to run.. Gear driven, electric? Electric motor driven you could get away without a valve inline and just use a hobbs switch but you will have a delay from time your hobbs sends signal to the time the pump actually gets pressure up to the nozzles.. Whereas if you run the simpson valve or similar mounted closer to then nozzles you have constant water flow recirculating until desired pressure closes the diaphram and water goes to the nozzles.

[VMAX]

Way more fuel now....

Yes.... My comment refers to you saying your using your same old water system in a previous post.

[AHall]

Depends on what style pump your planning to run.. Gear driven, electric? Electric motor driven you could get away without a valve inline and just use a hobbs switch but you will have a delay from time your hobbs sends signal to the time the pump actually gets pressure up to the nozzles.. Whereas if you run the simpson valve or similar mounted closer to then nozzles you have constant water flow recirculating until desired pressure closes the diaphram and water goes to the nozzles.

A 12v dc can go from 0 pressure to max system pressure very quickly. Also can be setup progressively with laptop based tuning to come on with boost, temp, time, etc. Set all the ramp rates to run a bigger nozzle overall without flooding the engine down low. And double the pressure as conventional pro systems.

[SmokinCAT]

Depends on what style pump your planning to run.. Gear driven, electric? Electric motor driven you could get away without a valve inline and just use a hobbs switch but you will have a delay from time your hobbs sends signal to the time the pump actually gets pressure up to the nozzles.. Whereas if you run the simpson valve or similar mounted closer to then nozzles you have constant water flow recirculating until desired pressure closes the diaphram and water goes to the nozzles.

Will be electric pump, being a puller I have a little more time to spare for it to come in.

Thank you for your help.

[CREED1]

Yes.... My comment refers to you saying your using your same old water system in a previous post.



Its the same exact pump turning relatively the same rpm. Just using different sources to drive it.

[SmokinCAT]

Is it best to but the nozzle facing towards the air flow or away from?

[AHall]

Is it best to but the nozzle facing towards the air flow or away from?

There is less pooling when the nozzle is going with airflow. If your placement is perpendicular a wide spray pattern is helpful.

[SmokinCAT]

There is less pooling when the nozzle is going with airflow. If your placement is perpendicular a wide spray pattern is helpful.

I will have to do some looking, they will be placed after the aftercooler but I cant recall how much room I have before the entry into the head.

[Leiffi]

Did power ever pick up

I have seen water injection pick up power only in ads.

[97rada]

I have seen water injection pick up power only in ads.



If done properly it should add power. Or you would think it should add power

[SmokinCAT]

If done properly it should add power. Or you would think it should add power

I'm looking at it for temperature control, getting exhaust temps to a safe range to sustain a long pull will be the best scenario for me.

[Leiffi]

If done properly it should add power. Or you would think it should add power
In gasoline engines it makes it possible to use higher boost and timing. In diesels it makes it possible to add more fuel without melting so yes it kind of adds power but it is not from the water itself. If there is not a problem with temperatures then it only robs power.

[SmokinCAT]

21 is the size of the orifice in this case .21 You can order them in any size you want from http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Nozzle_Jets.htm at 600 lbs you will inject the right number in cc's of water over 15 seconds the left number is the size of the orifice.
13-90
14-100
16-110
18-130
20-180
22-195
24-210
26-300
28-300
30-380
32-390
34-560
36-560
38-690
40-740
42-750

How did you figure the flow rates, my system will only be three nozzles on a 855CID engine, I'm gonna guess I need to start fairly high, obviously fueling will make a difference but trying to get a place to start as engine isn't finished yet.