Cnc mill endeavor

[AHall]

Has anyone bought a Cnc mill for learning on and making parts? I was interested in buying something that could maybe someday allow me enough work to become self employed. I've been looking at Haas vertical machines.

This could be a fun hobby or a nice career path. I would imagine if a guy could find some niche parts the machine would eventually pay for itself and maybe pay the bills as well.

Any advice or experiences are appreciated.

[YoungGun]

With the right programming software you can start out making simple parts or set up a simple fixture to mill heads and exhaust flanges.

[AHall]

This was my thoughts. I know of a couple "success stories" of a guy that started with a machine in his garage. Had a great idea for something that no one was supplying at the time. Fast forward a couple years. Now employs over 10 people and has over 10 paid for machines.

I'm certain this is a rarity, but I think it could be an interesting trade to gain for supplemental income. Small flanges, plates, simpler gun parts, etc.

[rdix7991]

Do you know anyone in the business that would sub out small jobs to you? That's the only way I see justifying such a large investment.

[AHall]

I do know someone. I was planning on bringing that up at a meeting tomorrow. I see some smaller xyz machines for 35k new. And some larger used ones for under 25k.

[Juiced_UP]

Has anyone bought a Cnc mill for learning on and making parts? I was interested in buying something that could maybe someday allow me enough work to become self employed. I've been looking at Haas vertical machines.

This could be a fun hobby or a nice career path. I would imagine if a guy could find some niche parts the machine would eventually pay for itself and maybe pay the bills as well.

Any advice or experiences are appreciated.
Go for it. I did 8 years ago. Went out on my own and never looked back. I started in a 1 car garage. Now there are 12 of us. As far as machines go, Haas is a great machine to learn on. It uses a Fanuc based control that's user friendly and fairly easy to learn. Haas also has a great website for g code programming.

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[AHall]

Go for it. I did 8 years ago. Went out on my own and never looked back. I started in a 1 car garage. Now there are 12 of us. As far as machines go, Haas is a great machine to learn on. It uses a Fanuc based control that's user friendly and fairly easy to learn. Haas also has a great website for g code programming.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Do you need any specific education for the programming or is it something that will just take direction and practice? Potentially a guy could hire a third party to do this portion until he was competent.

[Juiced_UP]

When I learned to program it took me quite awhile. I had some good help too. When ever I would get stumped I at least had a buddy to get me pointed back in the right direction.
The worst part for me was learning each G code. Depending on what type of work you are interested in, the amount of codes are minimal. Just be prepared for some long nights. Lol
Like I said Haas has a great website and tech support when it comes to learning the programming . As far as using a 3rd party, I never have personally.



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[AHall]

In your experience would it be smarter to buy a good older used machine or a new machine for more with a warranty or better financing options. I believe it would be wise to create a demand for a product you intend to make before you make the initial investment in the equipment.

[not enoughsmoke]

I bought this one 2 years ago and hope to have it working next month when i go home


http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150146

[ISBand4BT]

The best "starter" machine i have worked with would be a TRAK FHM7. They're big enough to do a head on, but small enough not to break the budget. Very easy programming and they will do a LOT!

[zstroken]

I would think the programming wouldn't be the bad part, the knowledge of feeds, speeds, and cutter material would be a challenge.

[zfaylor]

I had aspirations of learning on a CNC and then a buddy in the business brought up a good point: it is easy to crash and trash a mill in a hurry if you screw the code up a ton. That kind of strayed me away.

[RonA]

Used to be people learned how to machine first, then learned how to program. I've noticed that most seem to skip the first stage nowadays. Not judging, just stating my observation. Buy a machine to cut the material you plan on working with. All are not equal.

[AHall]

I agree an experienced machinist would be more ideal for getting an advanced machine. Seems not to be for the faint of heart.

[Blueboy]

I had aspirations of learning on a CNC and then a buddy in the business brought up a good point: it is easy to crash and trash a mill in a hurry if you screw the code up a ton. That kind of strayed me away.

That is why you stand there, turn down feed rate to 10% and watch
first part. The hardest part in programming is a radius. Most shops
use Master Cam or a similar program.

[SHughes]

I did some engine machining in high school and I wish I had been able to stick with it.

[97rada]

Used to be people learned how to machine first, then learned how to program. I've noticed that most seem to skip the first stage nowadays. Not judging, just stating my observation. Buy a machine to cut the material you plan on working with. All are not equal.


I have been trying to learn as much as possible. It's really hard to find someone to teach you for free labor

[AHall]

Learned a lot of info today. Typical cost for machine and tooling, unexpected expenses, software, to expect to work 7 days a week 18 hours a day, etc. Also learned my father in law was a machinist for 18 years and taught classes at the local college in the cad/cam programs. His buddy still runs the manufacturing dept so we're gonna go down later this week to go through the Cnc machines. Also learn mechanical mills and lathes over a couple evenings. A guy falls into luck every now and again!

[YoungGun]

Mazak and Haas machines are great to work with. G codes and M codes are pretty simple to understand buy a basic code book and read it that's what helped me the most. Feeds and speeds are usually supplied by the tooling reps they will be your best friend when it comes to getting your money out of an insert or tool. Iscar, Widia, Kennametal, Mitsubishi are all good quality products.

[RonA]

Learned a lot of info today. Typical cost for machine and tooling, unexpected expenses, software, to expect to work 7 days a week 18 hours a day, etc. Also learned my father in law was a machinist for 18 years and taught classes at the local college in the cad/cam programs. His buddy still runs the manufacturing dept so we're gonna go down later this week to go through the Cnc machines. Also learn mechanical mills and lathes over a couple evenings. A guy falls into luck every now and again!

Several years ago i bought some new programming software called BobCadCam or something. They were having a special on it and I bought it but never installed it. Let me know if it would work with what you are looking at. I think it's a 2.5 axis mill(no 3d contouring) package. Might have lathe as well, I honestly never checked. I get emails trying to get me to go to training seminars every once in a while. My old system still works fine for me(circa 1985 runs on dos).:hehe:
RonA

[not enoughsmoke]

Several years ago i bought some new programming software called BobCadCam or something. They were having a special on it and I bought it but never installed it. Let me know if it would work with what you are looking at. I think it's a 2.5 axis mill(no 3d contouring) package. Might have lathe as well, I honestly never checked. I get emails trying to get me to go to training seminars every once in a while. My old system still works fine for me(circa 1985 runs on dos).:hehe:
RonA

Holy chit I downloaded a free trial and they will not leave me alone about buying something.I keep telling them that I will not buy anything till the machine is running.

[RonA]

Holy chit I downloaded a free trial and they will not leave me alone about buying something.I keep telling them that I will not buy anything till the machine is running.

Yep.

[AHall]

Thanks Ron, if I'm able to move forward with this id like to discuss it further.

[joefarmer]

Another option is Autodesk's Fusion 360 for CAD/CAM. If you're under the $100k/year as a startup or just a hobbiest, the software is free. It took me ~45 evenings to go from concept to finished product including buying/building a small CNC.

Forgot to mention- Ron, the NC post processors are great for converting into any machine format imaginable, including the DOS machines.

[RonA]

Thanks Ron, if I'm able to move forward with this id like to discuss it further.

Just opened the box to see what it was. Version 24. Might be too old to even use, but I have it if it would help.

[okie18]

Holy chit I downloaded a free trial and they will not leave me alone about buying something.I keep telling them that I will not buy anything till the machine is running.

Given them a year and they'll quit calling LOL
Same sh!t with me

[AHall]

I went down to talk with the machining professor and told him my interest. I enrolled in a class to wrap my head around the cad/cam side of things. If nothing else a little extra education never hurt anyone.

[not enoughsmoke]

Given them a year and they'll quit calling LOL
Same sh!t with me

Nope its been over 2 years they are still calling

[okie18]

They'll probably call me next week then haha

[airgrabber70]

I've been a toolmaker for over 26 years, love the trade.. wish it paid more though. I have several machine tools in my shop that I just use for my hobbies and occasionally do work for people. It's an expensive business to get into as far as overhead, cutters, software, tooling, a shop to work in, 3 phase or equivalent power source, measurement tools, before you even make a part. Then there's knowing how to machine on top of it all. I'd love to do my own work, but getting the work or coming up with it is the hardest part to me.

If you have the passion, that will be the driving force to do what you want. On the machining side of it, learning the basics first is always the best by far. Learning to run manual machines and getting the feel for removing material, keeping tooling sharp, proper work holding, are some of the building blocks to becoming a great machinist. I've met and worked with guys over the years, that skipped over those basics and really couldn't do anything but operate one cnc machine. Like anything, it takes time.

As far as machine tools go, Haas is a good choice, not the best and not the worst, but probably the best support, hands down, in the industry. There is a reason they own over half the market in vertical mills.

If you need help with anything, I would be glad to answer questions or offer advice. I wish you luck on your adventures. $.02

[airgrabber70]

Oh yeah, BTW Bob cad still calls me after 8 years. They don't give up*bdh*

[AHall]

After a class of using FeatureCam, I can say it is a skill set I would love to explore. Even if only used as a hobbyist. Now I'm trying to find the best path for long term software. Very strange sitting in a classroom after being away for the last decade.

[vader's Fury]

Interested in this.

Would love to get into this as a hobby. Have some old equipment that I have been making things with that belongs to my grandfather and I have been really enjoying it.

Small mill/lathe combo and an large industrial lathe. I have been fabricating with hand tools and torch/plasma cutter/welder for years but would like to expand my skill set.

[OSUBeaver]

Has anyone bought a Cnc mill for learning on and making parts? I was interested in buying something that could maybe someday allow me enough work to become self employed. I've been looking at Haas vertical machines.

This could be a fun hobby or a nice career path. I would imagine if a guy could find some niche parts the machine would eventually pay for itself and maybe pay the bills as well.

Any advice or experiences are appreciated.

If you can swing a new Haas that would be awesome, next would be a Haas you could buy in newer condition and maybe have somebody in the know take a look and ask questions. Like somebody said earlier, they're not the best and they're not the worst, but they are everywhere. They're not year after year 24/7 hard production machines, but that's not what you want, or need to pay for right now.

The problem with older age CNC mills is you will get a grab bag of problems that you may or may not be able to fix or get parts for depending on brand.

[RonA]

I dread having to buy another machine. I figure I'll have to replace my Excel at some point. Trying to find a machine with box ways on all 3 axis is getting harder and harder to do without spending big money.
RonA

[AHall]

It seems there is a lot of initial expense in these machines. A new one is another mortgage.

[Nor'Easter]

Smaller new Haas 40-80k plus tooling and supporting infrastructure.

[bigbore050]

I couldn't agree more with starting with the basics. When I started taking machine tool classes the first semester we had to make parts with a band saw, drill press and a file. 2nd semester we finally got to use the manual mills and lathes. My final for the 1st year was Milling and drilling a 1-2-3 block and leaving .01 on all surfaces, taking it to the teacher to buy off on it and then having to file the block down to size and have it square, perpendicular and flat within .002. It was horrible but you sure knew how to use a file in the end. We didn't turn on cncs till the 3rd year on a 4 year part time program.

Running a CNC is cake, programming a part is cake once your learn the software. Knowing how to run the part is the hard part. How are you going to hold it, what speeds and feeds, planing out your operations. And everyday is different unless your just blasting some holes in plate steel.

With that being said if you are mechanically inclined and have good problem solving skills that alone will take you a long way and you will eventually pick up the rest.

If I was you and had an in for work I would go for it. I would buy a used Hurco for less than 15k-20k and another 5k in tooling. The hurcos have built in programming on the control so no need to spend money on cam software. Then after you get your own bugs worked out and established the kind of work you will be doing then I would be looking into new equipment and tailor that to your needs. hell you might even decide this isn't your thing and sell everything. The used machine wont depreciate much compared to the new one if things don't work out.

Dont forget that the hass warranty wont help you when the spindle dives into the vise because you missed something. Last time i had to replace a milling spindle it was a $1000 per 1000 rpm so a 15k rpm spindle can run you the price of the used hurco.

[AHall]

Ran my program on the first part today. Man I'm hooked!

Very stressful knowing if I crash the machine, I fail the class. Not a big deal to the kid classmates still living at home, but knowing an oops just cost me a grand makes me much more careful.

[SmokeShow]

I'm jealous. I've never been around any machining but have always thought it'd be something I would enjoy. I hope it works out for you.

[superpsd]

I am a CNC repair guy about 10 yrs now. Have worked on Mazak, Okuma, Mori Seiki, DMG, Gleason, Cincinnati, ABB, Giddins & Lewis, Daewoo, Monarch, Trump, Bridgeport, and ohhh at least 60 more makers. I have a small personal shop of antique machinery that I collect and use. My programming skill is beginner. Last company I work for years had a Bridgeport with ProtoTrak 2 axis control. The proto trak is great for beginners as it can be used as a DRO and CNC. It's basic conversational programming instead of the standard EIA/ISO (a.k.a. G code) I built all kind of manifolds, flanges, brackets, tools and more in my free time. I plan to ad a small CNC to my shop down the road. As all I have now is an older horizontal mill. Another step up for an actually machining center would be a Fadal. Box ways equals rigidity and you can find Fadals under 10K often. It's the rigger, service tech, parts bills you will have to worry about if you can't move it yourself and or fix it yourself. There is a lot to learn . From leveling and alignments, mechanical repair and lubrication, electronic troubleshooting, cutters and tooling costs...

[RonA]

Thanks Ron, if I'm able to move forward with this id like to discuss it further.

Give me a hollar if you end up getting a machine. I have a lot of drills and end mills you can have, and if you decide to start cutting Stainless, I can give you some recommendations for end mills, and inserts that work extremely well on it.
RonA

[97rada]

Give me a hollar if you end up getting a machine. I have a lot of drills and end mills you can have, and if you decide to start cutting Stainless, I can give you some recommendations for end mills, and inserts that work extremely well on it.

RonA


Can you give a good recommendation on an end mill that would be good to mill down rocker pedestals on a 12v? I am basically teaching myself before I take a machining class at the local community college. Also is there any good info/ books on selecting tooling ect

[zstroken]

I am a CNC repair guy about 10 yrs now. Have worked on Mazak, Okuma, Mori Seiki, DMG, Gleason, Cincinnati, ABB, Giddins & Lewis, Daewoo, Monarch, Trump, Bridgeport, and ohhh at least 60 more makers. I have a small personal shop of antique machinery that I collect and use. My programming skill is beginner. Last company I work for years had a Bridgeport with ProtoTrak 2 axis control. The proto trak is great for beginners as it can be used as a DRO and CNC. It's basic conversational programming instead of the standard EIA/ISO (a.k.a. G code) I built all kind of manifolds, flanges, brackets, tools and more in my free time. I plan to ad a small CNC to my shop down the road. As all I have now is an older horizontal mill. Another step up for an actually machining center would be a Fadal. Box ways equals rigidity and you can find Fadals under 10K often. It's the rigger, service tech, parts bills you will have to worry about if you can't move it yourself and or fix it yourself. There is a lot to learn . From leveling and alignments, mechanical repair and lubrication, electronic troubleshooting, cutters and tooling costs...

Yes for years I did a lot of work on different types of machines. My personal favorite for controls was the fanuc. Great diagnostics, great documentation and lots of versatility. This was in a manufacturing environment, so these machines saw types of abuse that most others didnt. I know I would be scared of the costs of replacement amps and servos. Didn't see much problem out of the processing boards.

[Nor'Easter]

Can you give a good recommendation on an end mill that would be good to mill down rocker pedestals on a 12v? I am basically teaching myself before I take a machining class at the local community college. Also is there any good info/ books on selecting tooling ect

Pedestals are quite soft. Nothing any end mill can't handle.

[AHall]

Give me a hollar if you end up getting a machine. I have a lot of drills and end mills you can have, and if you decide to start cutting Stainless, I can give you some recommendations for end mills, and inserts that work extremely well on it.
RonA

Thanks Ron. As always, I appreciate your continuous generosity.

[83notch331]

alot of time g code and m code is machine specific. for example an m10 in my doosan puma lather is parts cather up. in my hardinge quest it is high pressure. machines come with m code and g code list and hundreds of pages of sample programing. find a machine that you are interested in and buy a used manual for it sit down relax and read and read and try and understand it. there is plenty of hack versions on software out there you can get for programing you will just need to adjust g and m code it will give you a tool path atleast. start with mild steal or 6061 both easy to cut and learn feeds and speeds.

[83notch331]

look in to a haas vf2 they and cheap and have a decent size bed.

[AHall]

We have been using vf2's at the college. It is the machine I was leaning toward when I started this nonsense.

Also we have been learning FeatureCam. Is there any reason to not pursue FeatureCam and Inventor? I haven't downloaded my own version, but the instructor told me it was free for 3 years I think.

[83notch331]

I use master can for mills and part maker for lathes

[83notch331]

What's your address I can send you some tool books I have laying around

[bigbore050]

We have been using vf2's at the college. It is the machine I was leaning toward when I started this nonsense.

Also we have been learning FeatureCam. Is there any reason to not pursue FeatureCam and Inventor? I haven't downloaded my own version, but the instructor told me it was free for 3 years I think.


If your already learning FeatureCam I would stay with that. It is light years ahead of mastercam and last time I checked it was cheaper, but that was a few years ago. Mastercam has really been falling off the past few years in my opinion. But mastercam is a lot more popular and more widely used.

But the most important thing is to buy the software for the work you will be doing. If I was doing a lot of simple parts it would be Featurecam. If your doing molds and a lot of 3d machining then you need to look into software designed for that like Powermill

[TravisG]

Open says the fat kid.

[Trapper]

Anyone seen a Centroid? I remember the Haas machines at Hellmanns shop. I would love to learn how to do it.

[Blueboy]

Haas is a lower priced machine, it does get the work done.
We have replaced 3 spindles on three different machines.

[AHall]

I picked up a lathe at an auction from the local college that I attended earlier this year. Very excited to cut my teeth with the manual stuff.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm250/adamlhall2008/2B260D6F-115F-4827-AF5F-03E05BCFDF2C_zpsmre7gol9.jpg