is the old 5 bar link front suspension still better than the new radius arm suspensio

[Biohmmwv]

I know this was brought up in 2014 here:
Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together (http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=301)

I wanted to know ( now that it has been out for a couple of years) if the consensus is that the old five bar link is still better than the radius arm on the newer trucks.
I searched on Google, but my Googlefu was not strong enough to come up with more than one or two discussions. Plenty of info on the off road sites, but my application is mainly on road.

Does anyone have experience in both the 4x4 five bar link on the pre 2012 ram and the three bar on the 2013 Ram?
As every one knows the Ford and Ram share the same type of suspension
I have a 1995 4x4 Ram, am putting a 2010 Ford axle under the rear of the truck after I drill the bolt holes for 8x6.5.
My plans with the front axle is to put a 3rd gen ram track bar on and swap the knuckles out to 1992-1997 Ford knuckles to gain lockout hubs, spindles and duel piston calipers.
I have the opportunity to get a radius arm with the axle off of a 2010 Ford for less than $300 and I don't know if there is a big enough improvement in handling to merit the change.
There would also be the benefit of larger disc brakes not having to drill out the rear axle hubs since both the front and rear would match and I could use the track bar from the Ford.

So, anyone know if the suspension change is significantly better in the newer Ram radius arm vs the five bar?
Thanks in advance.

[Biohmmwv]

i just measured the two trucks and I'll have to put a 2.5inch spacer on each side of the frame where the springs go. The added width should increase stability. Where the radius arms mount is the same width Ford and 2nd gen ram. Bonus, the transmission mount is in the same spot as the suspension mount for strength.

[khaoskustoms]

Radius arms are better for ride quality. 4 link control arms are better for torque control. If you building a serious sled puller or rock crawler, I'd go 4 link. If your building a highway cruiser or long travel baja rig I'd go radius arm.

[Biohmmwv]

Thank you khaoskustoms! First voice of reason with good information I've heard on the three forums I've posted on.
Yes, this is for on road long haul driving. I have a HMMWV with a Cummins power plant for off road if I need it.
So, will the Radius arm suspension improve the handling? I know it won't be anywhere near my 06 silverado or HMMWV, but will it be noticeably better than the four link control arms?

[Ghostman]

Radius arms will generally improve handling because they turn the axle into a giant sway bar so to speak.


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[chevota84]

They also only have 4 wear points rather than 10.

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[CorneliusRox]

They also only have 4 wear points rather than 10.

I'm not super familiar with the setup, but I believe they have eight.

1994-2012 has two upper control arms, two lower control arms, and a panhard bar.
A total of 10 bushings.

The 2013+ trucks have a panhard bar, and then two radius arms that have three bushings each.
A total of eight bushings.

Since I've never had my hands on a 2013+ front suspension, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the setup.

[chevota84]

The front 2 on the Y shouldn't move on a radius arm, that's why I was only counting the back 2 but I guess the could be considered a wear point. The only radius arm setup I've been around much is a 2010 sd with 320k on it and it's never had a bushing changed, still drives great. I'm so tired of trying to get my 2nd gen to drive straight that I've really been considering converting it.

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[Biohmmwv]

The front 2 on the Y shouldn't move on a radius arm, that's why I was only counting the back 2 but I guess the could be considered a wear point. The only radius arm setup I've been around much is a 2010 sd with 320k on it and it's never had a bushing changed, still drives great. I'm so tired of trying to get my 2nd gen to drive straight that I've really been considering converting it.

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Glad I'm not the only one considering swapping the front end out. There is a guy in town who wants $400 for the whole setup.
I figured I'd be in the same ball park time wise as I'm putting a Sterling 10.5 on the truck and I would have to drill the hubs for 8x6.5 to match the stock ram pattern. Now I would just put the time in converting the front over to the radius arm and buying a set of Ford wheels.

I should have posted on Comp D first! I can finally have an adult conversation.

[chevota84]

I was just going to build radius arms for the Dana 60 that's in it. Those super duty axles are cheap and strong, though.

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[jasonc]

You already have a ford rear axle, why are you swapping all the front end parts for the lockouts and redrilling instead of just running a ford front axle and switch to metric wheels. Seems that would be simpler.

[Ghostman]

You already have a ford rear axle, why are you swapping all the front end parts for the lockouts and redrilling instead of just running a ford front axle and switch to metric wheels. Seems that would be simpler.



I agree. Just swap the matching front ford axle and switch to metric wheels.


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[Biohmmwv]

I am swapping the Ford axle to the Dodge truck.
I was just listing my other option of using the 92-97 ford knuckle ( for the dual pistion caliper) and using the 3rd gen track bar and bracket.
Also, the time I would have spent drilling the 8x6.5 pattern on the rear hubs can be spent putting the front axle in. I think it will take less time putting the axle front axle and suspension in than it would have taken drilling the correct lug pattern on the rear and milling down the hub to accept van 8x6.5 rotors.
After getting everyone's opinion, I went ahead and bought the front axle. A bit more than I wanted to spend though as the front clip was $350 and the tie rod with drag link was $80. I'll also have to replace the driver's side radius rod as it was bent in the accident that totaled the truck.
Thank you Ghostman,khaoskustoms and Chevota84 for helping me make a decision. I couldn't have done it without you.

[CorneliusRox]

The front 2 on the Y shouldn't move on a radius arm, that's why I was only counting the back 2 but I guess the could be considered a wear point. The only radius arm setup I've been around much is a 2010 sd with 320k on it and it's never had a bushing changed, still drives great. I'm so tired of trying to get my 2nd gen to drive straight that I've really been considering converting it.

Ah, yeah that makes sense.

As long as the panhard bar is on there tight, I've really never had any issues with the dodge five link front suspensions. I'd be curious to try some radius arms though. I would think it'd cost me ~$150 to buy bushings and weld up some that hook up to my lower mount. I'm not sure the lower mount has enough room to put a big enough bushing though. I might try it for fun either way.

[Ghostman]

Alright post some progress pictures when you get started.

[Biohmmwv]

I will post pictures of the conversion. I have to swap a Cummins into my Dad's 2006 Silverado first.

[CorneliusRox]

Alright post some progress pictures when you get started.

It'll probably be later in the summer when I've got time to get to it, but feel free to bug me. Hell, if it made my truck drive better, I'd be happy! :Cheer: