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Bodacious
10-27-2017, 03:13 PM
This is really not my idea. Just the use of what I see. Hopefully. lol

Take a look at what German Engineers at VW have been showing us for years. Lol, not the oil pump bolt, the cut-away of the engine. lol

https://s19.postimg.org/9pj3dbmsz/VR6.jpg

Well, it really doesn't seem like much. The engine design has been around for quite some time. However, one night in my Brother-in-Laws garage, it hit me like a "Flash of Genius" so to speak.

His son was doing a head gasket job on a little Jetta that had a 2.8LVR6 engine. At first glance I just thought it was a four cylinder. Then I seen the underside of the head.

Lots of crazy ideas started flying around and a month or so later I had the latest and greatest VR6 in my shop. This is a 2013 "Direct Injected" gasoline 3.6L VR6. Sorry for the sideway pics.

https://s19.postimg.org/9crp724ib/VR6wieght.jpg

DDually
10-27-2017, 03:24 PM
Wait.... So what's your idea? I'm confused

Bodacious
10-27-2017, 03:24 PM
This is a good video to watch on the engine: VR6 Engine - Explained - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0LKWt3Ttic)

I had weighed the engine some time ago and really became excited. I went back through and found the pics. I had to go back down to the shop and re-weigh everything because I thought the scale had somehow been damaged.

https://s19.postimg.org/vby3u8y77/VR6wieght2.jpg

I thought this might not be a fair assessment. So, I grabbed an S-480 and situated it on top of the VR6. The engine hoist adapter is still hooked to the engine as well.

https://s19.postimg.org/6vfxzrpqr/VR6_S480.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/b4ko1wqf7/VR6_S480_weight.jpg

Bodacious
10-27-2017, 03:27 PM
...addition of a P7100 injection pump:

https://s19.postimg.org/fdpe456k3/VR6s480_P7100.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/len3180w3/VR6s480_P7100_weight.jpg

Bodacious
10-27-2017, 03:29 PM
...and to be semi race ready weight, we need an exhaust manifold.

https://s19.postimg.org/4e46shqer/VR6_loaded.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/wqzoizepv/VR6_loaded_weight.jpg

Bodacious
10-27-2017, 03:31 PM
So what does it all mean so far? Remember the all aluminum 3.0L BMW engines I tore apart? Remember the weight?

https://s19.postimg.org/oy90r4j2b/bmw_weight.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/cjm8qsjub/bmwweight2.jpg

This 3.6L VR6 is an iron block and less than 2/3 the length of the BMW yet maintains close to the same width.

J-Pipes
10-27-2017, 04:49 PM
Cool!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Bodacious
10-27-2017, 06:43 PM
Wait.... So what's your idea? I'm confused

Suppose you took the VR6 design and swelled it up to say a 4.88" stroke and a 5" bore?

Bodacious
10-27-2017, 07:44 PM
Dangit!! In post #1, I meant to point out that you are looking at the back of the engine. All cam timing happens back there.

jasonc
10-27-2017, 08:53 PM
Being direct injected the design could be diesel in theory, are you planning on making a billet block and all the rest just off this design?

SmokeShow
10-27-2017, 10:32 PM
My interest is peaked...

Bodacious
10-28-2017, 01:30 AM
Being direct injected the design could be diesel in theory, are you planning on making a billet block and all the rest just off this design?

Exactly. My first plan is to find someone competent enough to get some injectors in place of the spark plugs and hang a pump on it.

Hopefully, with a little luck, it will start up and run. I know I'm going to need help figuring out just what kind of spray pattern to go with. The design must create some decent swirl.

I bought another head so I will get some pics up of the combustion chamber. It looks nothing like a modern diesel combustion chamber so I'm a little worried here. lol

Looking forward, if the little 3.6L does run, I found a 4.4L stroker kit in Europe that will fit in the 3.6 block. I'm not hearing good things about this kit.

I priced a centroid A-560, 5-axis CNC milling machine. For around $250k, I could have the machine setting in my shop. No tooling, just setting there and this money includes training.

With this being said, I can do a whole lot of hand grinding and cutting. lol In actuality, just so long as everything is close enough to final machine work, conventional equipment can be used to finish the work.

Scott Law (Chipmaker) made me realize that simple machining fact. Scott also had a crazy idea to weld a block together. Instead of cutting material away to create the block, you weld one together. I didn't give it much thought until I spoke with a few smaller shops willing to do my cutting for me. As much as I'd like to be able to hire them, I'll never get this thing off the ground spending that kind of money. So, as crazy as it sounds, I'm gonna try to weld a block together. I spoke with a fella who has repaired an aluminum block or two and he said it was genius. We may see. lol

9724VF350
10-28-2017, 07:37 AM
Exactly.
Scott Law (Chipmaker) made me realize that simple machining fact. Scott also had a crazy idea to weld a block together. Instead of cutting material away to create the block, you weld one together. I didn't give it much thought until I spoke with a few smaller shops willing to do my cutting for me. As much as I'd like to be able to hire them, I'll never get this thing off the ground spending that kind of money. So, as crazy as it sounds, I'm gonna try to weld a block together. I spoke with a fella who has repaired an aluminum block or two and he said it was genius. We may see. lol

Fabricated blocks have been done quite a few times in tractor pulling. Do you have a CAD program?

Bodacious
10-28-2017, 07:37 AM
I have been researching combustion chamber and piston design a little. I know now why pistons in conventional direct injected engines have bowls. Among other reasons, the bowl is designed to swirl the air as the piston ascends.

These pics are of an additional head I picked up. I have yet to pull the head off the test engine but the combustion chambers are the same. I will need to pull the head regardless and will study the piston tops then.

Really reaching out there, lol, it would be nice to build a Unit Injector System to run off the available cam lobes.

https://s19.postimg.org/fhaxvhv3n/VR6head.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/6z1hr6yvn/VR6head2.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/tnqoqpitf/VR6head3.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/5jzx2inir/VR6head4.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/q44r0yl9f/VR6head5.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/mxa7ha3df/VR6head6.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/578iwbptf/VR6head7.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/7oka3keur/VR6head8.jpg

Bodacious
10-29-2017, 02:12 AM
Fabricated blocks have been done quite a few times in tractor pulling. Do you have a CAD program?

I bought Viacad. I designed and drew a few things with it. IMHO, to learn all it has to offer, I may as well get up to date with AutoCAD.

I haven't used AutoCAD since 2006. Not sure I could even draw a line with the new stuff.

Tobin
10-29-2017, 07:00 AM
I bought Viacad. I designed and drew a few things with it. IMHO, to learn all it has to offer, I may as well get up to date with AutoCAD.

I haven't used AutoCAD since 2006. Not sure I could even draw a line with the new stuff.

AutoCAD is garbage.

mhuggler
10-29-2017, 07:57 AM
I've always been curious to know exactly how crazy high are the piston skirt side loading figures for that engine.

Bodacious
10-29-2017, 11:33 AM
AutoCAD is garbage.

I haven't had the real need to use any CAD tools. I have some drawings here I did with my old manual drafting tools.

This ViaCad deal, we bought at Wal-Mart, is OK. It isn't accurate enough to do mechanical drawings.

Tobin,

What would you suggest for a fella in my position? What is out there you might approve of??

exactly how crazy high are the piston skirt side loading figures for that engine

I don't have a clue. Any reason they would be much different than an old 12 valve??

9724VF350
10-29-2017, 02:15 PM
I started out with Solidworks while knowing nothing about CAD. I caught on quickly and love it. I tried to use autocad once and absolutely despised it. You can pick up PC's on eBay with Solidworks already on them pretty reasonable.

kleann
10-29-2017, 07:21 PM
AutoCAD is more for 2d modeling. Solidworks is nice for 3d. Fusion 360 (which is made by the same company as autocad) seems like it might be worth a try for you considering the low cost of it.

crackerman
10-29-2017, 09:53 PM
I dont see how side loading would be any different than any other engine with this particular stroke/rod ratio

mhuggler
10-30-2017, 05:59 AM
Wow. Everybody can just ignore anything I said earlier. Apparently I'm the only one that stayed awake for more than two days in geometry class. I'm out.

Bodacious
10-30-2017, 06:41 AM
Wow. Everybody can just ignore anything I said earlier. Apparently I'm the only one that stayed awake for more than two days in geometry class. I'm out.

Sorry mhuggler, I think maybe you lost all of us. lol I went back and seen one post about piston skirt side loading from you.

...could you possibly expand a bit on your statement so that we might get a better chance at talking about your concern.

I'll expand just a little. Just about every diesel engine I've taken apart or seen pics of have a piston skirt that is longer than a piston skirt in a gasoline engine.

One reason this VR6 engine is lighter is that it is a gasoline engine. All the diesel engine manufactures are searching for ways to meet future emissions. In doing so, the internal parts are made lighter to reduce rotating/accelerated mass.

I made the statement somewhere, my old '90 model has lived nearly a half a million miles at almost 2x it's advertised HP. Back in the days when all we had was a 460 ford or 454 chevy to get it done, you would be lucky to get 50k miles out of one of those gassers trying to keep up with just the stock 5.9 cummins of '89.

Again, sorta to go along with the "wake up sunshine" post, the diesel community, especially us, are going to have move away from the tractor engine philosophy. Otherwise, the mighty diesel will be gone.

J-Pipes
10-30-2017, 07:06 AM
Seen a video of a drug car with one of these engines, turbo'd claiming over 700hp. According to the description, there are two displacements of these, and thst particular car had the smaller displacement crank in the larger bore engine, for a claimed 3L displacement. So, as long as you can keep the power up in the rpm range, it should handle a bit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

9724VF350
10-30-2017, 07:28 AM
Rod angle and skirt load look like they do weird chit in this design.

Bodacious
10-30-2017, 07:49 AM
Rod angle and skirt load look like they do weird chit in this design.

I'm with ya. It may be the flat deck surface v/s the angle of the cylinder that is screwing with us.

I think my engine, 2013, is 11 degree. The older ones, like in the vid I posted, were 15 degree.

You have to keep the combustion chamber in mind and how the expanding gas acts on the surfaces.

I have that same 2.8 my nephew did the head gasket job on. It is laying in the shop floor with a window in each side of the block. Probably should have taken this one on down as it had been too hot. lol

EnduringAtlas
10-30-2017, 08:05 AM
For CAD I prefer solidworks but you could try onshape. It's free if you don't mind your projects being public ($100 a month if you need private files) and it is browser based so you don't need a powerful computer to run it. Might be worth trying out. For any of the CAD programs a lot can be learned off of youtube.

CorneliusRox
10-30-2017, 08:06 AM
What would you suggest for a fella in my position? What is out there you might approve of?

Fusion 360 does look really good for cheap.
Solidworks works really well with MasterCam and other CNC softwares.
UGNX is hands down the best software I've used and has a TON of capabilities.
CREO (previously called ProE) is used all over and the US Gov typically prefers it. Although, it's what I currently use and I miss UGNX pretty bad...

Wow. Everybody can just ignore anything I said earlier. Apparently I'm the only one that stayed awake for more than two days in geometry class. I'm out.

$20 says this chick is 17yo. :lolly:
jk jk

Diesels typically have a small stroke to rod ratio so they put more force into the crank and less into the sidewall. It's typically a rule of thumb because diesel have much more violent pulses from the power stroke.
That being said, I think you'd be fine with this, it's just not going to last 300k. I'd also highly recommend upgrading your rods and pain bolts. I'm assuming that's a forged crank already, but if not, it'll probably deflect more than you'd think.

mhuggler
10-30-2017, 12:25 PM
Rod angle and skirt load look like they do weird chit in this design.^^^This is what I was referring to when I mentioned the side load on those pistons. The cylinders are not inline; they're offset and yet still perpendicular to the crankshaft. Obviously, VW and some others found a way to make it work, I just don't know how. Bodacious, sorry I got the wrong impression from you, I've been on here for ten years now and there are way too many douchebags attacking me lately. Just got used to getting defensive.

kjpcummins
10-30-2017, 12:50 PM
I would use fusion 360. it's free has cad, cam for mills and i believe lathes. It has sheetmetal bending features built in now as well. For single parts or single assemblies it works great.

Bodacious
10-30-2017, 05:34 PM
sorry I got the wrong impression from you, I've been on here for ten years now and there are way too many douchebags attacking me lately. Just got used to getting defensive.


Lol, I am with ya. I am learning this "Internet" gives some folks the courage to speak out when they normally wouldn't face to face. I openly admit to being a dumb, redneck, hillbilly, hayseed, etc... and I am my own worst critic. Therefore, I have much to learn.

In light of that last statement, I'm on here to make an attempt to get it done, "Hayseed Style". Lol

jasonc
10-30-2017, 05:44 PM
What are these engines rated at for hp and max rpm now? Never seen this design before.

crackerman
10-30-2017, 07:13 PM
7k or more.

I saw a vr6 vw golf go over 205mph at the texas mile. With a single borg warner 70+mm turbo. So it was making probably close to 900hp.

SmokeShow
10-30-2017, 10:25 PM
7k or more.

I saw a vr6 vw golf go over 205mph at the texas mile. With a single borg warner 70+mm turbo. So it was making probably close to 900hp.

that's good. dang impressive actually!

BUT, what Archie is wanting to accomplish with this same platform is 4x that much HP.

I'm curious how low of TQ archie thinks he can get it down to while burning normal #2 diesel. I understand that's the need/desire to spin it to the moon but actually getting it to and survive is gonna be interesting to see unfold.


So far we're talking about welding up a block. Is this like 3D printing a block with a welder? LOL I laugh but seriously, is that the gist of it?

What about the crank? rods? pistons? valve train? What diesel fuel injection system can handle 10K RPMs? Anything out there anywhere currently doing that?

crackerman
10-30-2017, 10:52 PM
I think the tdi range is close to 8, but 10,is pretty far up there.

zfaylor
10-30-2017, 10:57 PM
I like Fusion 360 but for very complex designs it tends to bug out and slow wayyyyyy down. The idea behind it is that all of the components for assemblies are in the same file along with the CAM. (Hints the Fusion name).

This is awesome for simple parts but anything with a lot of components and sketches tends to eventually slow to a snails pace. Don't let that scare you away as there is a way around that once you get a part where you pretty much want it.

Bodacious
10-30-2017, 11:42 PM
Thanks for all the replies on the CAD stuff. I really don't care to pay out some money for good stuff. I'd like to be able to get my file finished, export it to a compd member with the CNC machine, and get my part made.

Is this scenario even possible??

BUT, what Archie is wanting to accomplish with this same platform is 4x that much HP.

I'm curious how low of TQ archie thinks he can get it down to while burning normal #2 diesel. I understand that's the need/desire to spin it to the moon but actually getting it to and survive is gonna be interesting to see unfold.


So far we're talking about welding up a block. Is this like 3D printing a block with a welder? I laugh but seriously, is that the gist of it?

What about the crank? rods? pistons? valve train? What diesel fuel injection system can handle 10K RPMs? Anything out there anywhere currently doing that?

Holly crap, 3600HP? lol

I wonder if I could hook up my spool gun to a 3d printer? lol

Seriously, I have 6061T6 aluminum plate here of varying thicknesses. Jump over to the D&J Dreaming Big post and look at the simplicity of the bedplate. Bulkheads and exterior walls.

I will utilize the steel tension sleeves I learned about on the BMW engines to tie the head to the bedplate. I also later learned watching an interview with Jeremy Wagler, Top Fuel engines as well as his DX500 are utilizing tension sleeves.

I haven't made a decision on cylinders. This LSM water block I have is aluminum with steel sleeves. You can look back in the opening for the oil cooler and see the steel sleeve. This means to me the steel sleeve holds all the circumferential force created in the cylinder. Could a fella simply cut a relief in the bed plate to hold the bottom of the cylinder? Other forces come into play, of course, but in the hypothetical world, wouldn't the engine be just as strong resisting all cylinder pressure forces with just the bed plate, steel cylinder sleeves, steel tension sleeves, and head?

All your other questions are good ones and I will get to them as we go along. Bryant Cranks will do my first crank for $8k.

Thanks to the performance aftermarket, rods should not be an issue.

Valves, springs, etc... will be existing available parts. Since this is ground up design, may as well build it to use existing parts.

I guess the biggest question on my mind right now is how big can I actually go with it before, it to, becomes a packaging problem? I could build a 6.7L that would be roughly 2/3rds the weight and 2/3rds the length. Use existing rods and pistons, bearings, etc... and even run an iron head.

Just imagine what todays design engineers could do with that extra space a fella would have up there between the radiator and fan...

Bodacious
10-31-2017, 06:23 AM
I was surfing looking for an example of the tension sleeves in the DX500 and Top Fuel engines. No luck yet. lol

Anyhow, I came across this video from 2012:

Donovan Engineering Building Engine Blocks - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JW5DuCeK8)

Right about 1:01, look what's on his CAD screen.

4x4dually
10-31-2017, 07:02 AM
Interesting reading here for sure. Yall stop cussing AutoCAD. I've been using it since 1995 and it is the one program that never crashes or gives me schidt...but I only do 2D stuff with it. Solidworks is the biggest pile of steaming excrement out there....but I use it everyday. It is easy to learn, very versatile, but it is like a bottle of red wine balanced on a toothpick over momma's white carpet. If you sneeze, the SOB crashes. I'm conditioned to hit save every 2 minutes.

kjpcummins
10-31-2017, 07:17 AM
I like Fusion 360 but for very complex designs it tends to bug out and slow wayyyyyy down. The idea behind it is that all of the components for assemblies are in the same file along with the CAM. (Hints the Fusion name).

This is awesome for simple parts but anything with a lot of components and sketches tends to eventually slow to a snails pace. Don't let that scare you away as there is a way around that once you get a part where you pretty much want it.

sounds like you need a better computer. Which makes a big difference with any cad program. I have a component chassis tractor with sheetmetal rearend designed.up in fusion 360. every single piece just like in the real world is its own component. The sheetmetal rearend parts, hitch, tubing, machined parts like.planetaries, steering components, wheels, tires, body sheetmetal all in one file. No crashing on my laptop.

4x4dually
10-31-2017, 07:21 AM
sounds like you need a better computer. Which makes a big difference with any cad program. I have a component chassis tractor with sheetmetal rearend designed.up in fusion 360. every single piece just like in the real world is its own component. The sheetmetal rearend parts, hitch, tubing, machined parts like.planetaries, steering components, wheels, tires, body sheetmetal all in one file. No crashing on my laptop.

Our tiny machine shop in the back uses Fusion360 as well. They love it.

zfaylor
10-31-2017, 07:30 AM
sounds like you need a better computer. Which makes a big difference with any cad program. I have a component chassis tractor with sheetmetal rearend designed.up in fusion 360. every single piece just like in the real world is its own component. The sheetmetal rearend parts, hitch, tubing, machined parts like.planetaries, steering components, wheels, tires, body sheetmetal all in one file. No crashing on my laptop.

You must not have very many versions or sketches, then. It doesn't matter what computer I am on with one of my files. It takes 10 minutes to open. It is on version 120+, though. I know I am not the only one with this complaint using Fusion.

kjpcummins
10-31-2017, 11:30 AM
You must not have very many versions or sketches, then. It doesn't matter what computer I am on with one of my files. It takes 10 minutes to open. It is on version 120+, though. I know I am not the only one with this complaint using Fusion.

Maybe I'm just using it differently. A bare chassis alone has 170-200 sperate components without anything attached.

zfaylor
10-31-2017, 12:26 PM
A lot of it depends on the little stuff inside of the sketches and components as well. Files tend to slow down quickly on it if you have 100+sketches even if there are only a few components. I can move the components to a new file and choose to not save the design history and that helps get it back up to speed. I enjoy Fusion mostly. That is my only complaint on it. The CAM can be cumbersome to eliminate wasted motions on some parts but hey it is very affordable.

SmokeShow
10-31-2017, 02:00 PM
Interesting reading here for sure. Yall stop cussing AutoCAD. I've been using it since 1995 and it is the one program that never crashes or gives me schidt...but I only do 2D stuff with it. Solidworks is the biggest pile of steaming excrement out there....but I use it everyday. It is easy to learn, very versatile, but it is like a bottle of red wine balanced on a toothpick over momma's white carpet. If you sneeze, the SOB crashes. I'm conditioned to hit save every 2 minutes.

Try doing 3D terrain modelling with AutoCAD (2018 Civil3D package). I save often with big surfaces. :D But in all honesty, it is a pretty stable program. Much better than even a few years ago with ACAD 2008.

Sorry back on topic.

12vchevydually
11-10-2017, 10:00 AM
bump!

EnduringAtlas
11-10-2017, 03:32 PM
Back to the "3D printing" a block, think it would be possible to set up a robotic welder to do just that? Get a chunk of aluminum sheet metal as the starting base, like either the oil pan or head side of the block and just have it build weld up on it in the block's design.

What does a barrel of aluminum welding wire cost?

Bodacious
11-10-2017, 09:34 PM
I had to serve on the Grand Jury a couple days last week.

One of the cases involved a high speed chase with, you guessed it, a VR-6 Jetta.

Our county officer gave up pursuit at the county line. He proceeded on in support capacity as the neighboring county deputies, state police, and local law enforcement made attempts to stop the guy. He got away and was later apprehended.

How do I know it was a VR-6? I asked the arresting officer if the Jetta was a diesel or a gas. Just so happens, he is a VR-6 fan. LOL

Lots of crazy ideas on this thing floating around in that empty space between my ears. It will be nice when I can devote more time to some of these ideas.

EnduringAtlas, I'd say it would be possible. Not cost effective, but, possible.

J-Pipes
11-10-2017, 09:44 PM
That's cool, I'm still hear watching!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

4x4dually
11-13-2017, 07:22 AM
Back to the "3D printing" a block, think it would be possible to set up a robotic welder to do just that? Get a chunk of aluminum sheet metal as the starting base, like either the oil pan or head side of the block and just have it build weld up on it in the block's design.

What does a barrel of aluminum welding wire cost?

Sounds great in theory, but one hiccup in a 3D print and the entire build is junk. We have that issue with little plastic parts here. It would take a day or two to print and I don't think you'd be happy with the end result of a 3D welded block. Just my $.02

Tobin
11-13-2017, 12:59 PM
Sounds great in theory, but one hiccup in a 3D print and the entire build is junk. We have that issue with little plastic parts here. It would take a day or two to print and I don't think you'd be happy with the end result of a 3D welded block. Just my $.02

Still needs to be final machined, heat treated, pray to God there is no flaws in the weld, etc. Just make it out of a piece of billet.

zfaylor
11-13-2017, 01:29 PM
Not to mention you would still have a chit load of machine work to do to it to make it a finished product.

Bodacious
11-14-2017, 10:18 AM
Just curious, have any of you all played around with some drawings of the VR-6?? Anyone interested in spending some time on one? I just don't have the time right now to devote to my learning curve. lol

I ain't talking that $90/hr stuff I was quoted for a rendering. Lol If I would have had the money, I would have hired him in an instant. I'm just talking about a common person that might be interested in the extra coin and you must also show a bit of interest in the design.

I also want to keep everything posted right here for everyone to see. So you would have to be OK with the CompD criticism.

Bodacious
11-19-2017, 08:45 PM
I have been using the via-cad software a little to Klean up my hand drawings.

In doing so, my mind gets to wondering on all the components and I focused on valve seats today.

Powder Metal Valve Seats
(http://www.dura-bondbearing.com/Products/Products/Powder-Metal-Valve-Seats)

Bodacious
11-19-2017, 08:55 PM
Lol, this video was posted in 2007. Very interesting...

New Engine Technology/Springless Valves - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inrBHHVVfng)

Pudge
11-20-2017, 01:45 AM
Not what I was expecting. I thought you were going to hit us with this, which follows a company I'm sure you've mentioned elsewhere. I think this is amazing technology, but there's something holding it back. Likely durability and cost. Several OE manufacturers developed it and subsequently dropped it in the late 90's.

Koenigsegg Subsidiary Shows Camless Engine - Freevalve G6 Rrail - YouTube

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

Bodacious
11-20-2017, 05:52 AM
I looked at the Koenigsegg valve. Specifically because he is the fella that also has the torque converter transmission.

I did more researching on the springless valve from the previous post, as one critic mentioned, to much heat soak is going on with different metals to accurately keep valve lash in check.

I had spoken with the "Thunder Brake" fellas about their compression engine brake. This man is essentially doing the same thing as the Koenigsegg valve, only all they have to control is the exhaust valve and the particular control event is no where near as involved as the complete combustion cycle. However, opening up an exhaust valve with cylinder pressure under it has become a problem.

I am soaking up all the info and tech I can. However, I have to keep it real for my familiar world. For now, probably best just to "KISS" for the meantime.

Bodacious
11-22-2017, 04:08 AM
I am trying to tighten up the bottom of the cylinders. Now that I am using the computer to draw with, I have found some pretty big errors in my hand drawings.

Would anyone know if it is acceptable to allow a portion of the piston skirt to extend beyond the bottom of the cylinders?

Edit: Found this:

https://s19.postimg.org/wsss5a31f/nitro-nitroblog-cutaway-big-block-chevy-427-3.jpg

Bodacious
11-22-2017, 04:26 AM
I also found this image:

https://s19.postimg.org/ylvotmyir/cummins_cutaway.jpg

So I believe I've answered my own question. This is good. In order to keep the engine as narrow as possible, allowing the piston skirt to extend beyond the bottom of the crankcase will allow me to tighten up the Center Line of the three bank bore spacing.

EnduringAtlas
11-22-2017, 07:08 AM
Ducati motorcycles use a springless valve train also. Same idea just a different design.
Ducati Desmo Valve System - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfIYUc5bpU)

Cflanery88
11-22-2017, 03:09 PM
Back to the "3D printing" a block, think it would be possible to set up a robotic welder to do just that? Get a chunk of aluminum sheet metal as the starting base, like either the oil pan or head side of the block and just have it build weld up on it in the block's design.

What does a barrel of aluminum welding wire cost?

I work for Arconic and we actually have 3D printers that can 3D print aluminum and titanium alloys. I really wish I could utilize some of the companies capabilities and technology. A lot of things we have, and our capabilities would be a game changer in the Diesel Motorsports world.

Bodacious
11-22-2017, 03:15 PM
Thank you Mr. Flanery for the response and the link. Some form of valve control like this certainly does wonders for valve train losses. I will certainly research it more.

What would this technology do for a P7100 injection pump. Instead of having the conventional camshaft?

I'm all for any way to get this thing put together. I'd like to watch some of the priting/welding in action.

Cflanery88
11-23-2017, 12:41 AM
Thank you Mr. Flanery for the response and the link. Some form of valve control like this certainly does wonders for valve train losses. I will certainly research it more.

What would this technology do for a P7100 injection pump. Instead of having the conventional camshaft?

I'm all for any way to get this thing put together. I'd like to watch some of the priting/welding in action.

I’m not entirely sure. The printers actually use lasers to melt the metal alloy in powdered form while it’s printing. Unfortunately a lot of this is in the research and development stage. I do know all the nascar blocks get sent to our thermotech operation which they put them in large heat treat pressure vessels and expose them to heat and pressures for some alloys up to 26,000psi for long periods of time to change the molecular grain structure of the alloy to make it stronger. We also offer high heat resistant coating for jet turbine blades that I could see doing exceptionally well on the tops of pistons. I should of looked into it more prior to building my motor but I think in order for them to something they want a contract and multiple orders due to the metallurgy and engineering involved in the process.

biggy238
11-23-2017, 10:30 AM
I’m not entirely sure. The printers actually use lasers to melt the metal alloy in powdered form while it’s printing. Unfortunately a lot of this is in the research and development stage. I do know all the nascar blocks get sent to our thermotech operation which they put them in large heat treat pressure vessels and expose them to heat and pressures for some alloys up to 26,000psi for long periods of time to change the molecular grain structure of the alloy to make it stronger. We also offer high heat resistant coating for jet turbine blades that I could see doing exceptionally well on the tops of pistons. I should of looked into it more prior to building my motor but I think in order for them to something they want a contract and multiple orders due to the metallurgy and engineering involved in the process.This was my understanding, that laser sintered parts have to undergo post treat to be usable.

There are companies that lease the equipment. They were involved in scandals with firearms parts.

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Tobin
11-23-2017, 01:49 PM
There are places that you email your CAD file and your 3D printed part comes back. No need to spend all the money buying the equipment. I have had parts printed.

Cflanery88
11-23-2017, 10:20 PM
This was my understanding, that laser sintered parts have to undergo post treat to be usable.

There are companies that lease the equipment. They were involved in scandals with firearms parts.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

That is correct. They must be heat treated. All of our cast or forged parts under go heat treating.

Bodacious
12-05-2017, 05:07 AM
they put them in large heat treat pressure vessels and expose them to heat and pressures for some alloys up to 26,000psi for long periods of time to change the molecular grain structure of the alloy to make it stronger.

Curious, 26k psi is a tremendous amount of pressure to produce. Additionally, the vessel to contain those pressures and temperatures must be huge.

Would you know how the pressure is generated?

J-Pipes
01-23-2018, 05:00 PM
How you been Arch? Any updates on this and other projects? Haven't heard anything from you in a while?

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Highwayman
01-23-2018, 05:36 PM
I miss Bodacious posts.
#MBPA

No one here would dog on ya if they didn’t like you!

Red Sleeper
01-23-2018, 07:43 PM
That's true. He's been quiet.

Hope he's doing alright.

J-Pipes
01-23-2018, 07:59 PM
Yeah, nice to have some stuff outside the box, really gets you thinking.

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Bodacious
01-29-2018, 06:24 PM
Sorry for the absence. Nothing new to report on the crazy ideas. As much as I want to take the time to pursue them, I've managed to get myself back to reality. That old adage "A fool and his money are soon to part" describes my situation to a T. I have begun rebuilding the nest egg I have pilfered away in the last several months.

I have no one to blame but myself as I am the one who chose to throttle the 'Crazy Train' I created.

I am no longer perusing the Ultimate Callout Challenge and probably never will. I apologize to those who were sorta rooting for me. Had I kept my sense about me, I would have never entered to begin with.

Stalnaker Racing Services no longer exist nor does the cell phone, E-mail account, and credit card machine associated with that business.

I will be selling all the high priced items I've purchased at reduced cost in an effort to simply pay my federal taxes coming due in May. Please look back through my 'for sale' post. If you see something you like, shoot me a PM with an offer. You just might get a 'smok'n' deal.

My only interest right now are to finish the responsibilities I have promised and get back to generating income for my family. I thank God above they are still here with me. I would have given up on someone like me a long time ago.

I have absolutely no interest in racing of any kind now or in the foreseeable future.

Again, my apologies go out to ones I affected with my ridiculous craziness.

Arch

RacinDuallie
01-29-2018, 06:28 PM
Well............ Phuck.

95cummins5.9
01-29-2018, 06:32 PM
Wow

J-Pipes
01-29-2018, 06:35 PM
Bummer, but gotta do what you feel is best for the family. Hopefully all is well though.

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Highwayman
01-29-2018, 06:45 PM
Sorry, bud. Good luck.

Meyers Farms
01-29-2018, 07:13 PM
Hate to hear it, but understand you have to do what's right for your family. Just cause you're not pursuing the UCC doesn't mean you can't still hang out here. I enjoyed reading some of your crazy posts and the responses to said posts. Will you be selling the 1st gen pulling truck you purchased? Keep your head up Arch.

Bodacious
01-29-2018, 07:48 PM
Thanks fellas. I'll always be on here. At the very least, I enjoy other peoples builds and ideas.

Yes, the first gen pulling truck is for sale. I listed it sometime ago with very little interest. If anyone was thinking about it, now is the time.

Should I bump up the for sale adds? Now that the mobile device is gone, folks will have to call a speak with me instead of texting seemingly forever only to leave me with wasted time.

J-Pipes
01-29-2018, 08:19 PM
May as well update what all you're trying to sell, hopefully it all move fast for you.

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andy2
01-29-2018, 09:15 PM
I've really enjoyed your out of the box thinking and wish you and your family all the best Arch.

I'm sure you'll keep in touch and give us your 2 cents.

4x4dually
01-30-2018, 07:15 AM
Dayum, Arch. The raffle for the John Deere gator was last Saturday night and unfortunately, they didn't draw your name. Thanks again thought for supporting the kids!

RacinDuallie
01-30-2018, 04:09 PM
Thanks fellas. I'll always be on here. At the very least, I enjoy other peoples builds and ideas.

Yes, the first gen pulling truck is for sale. I listed it sometime ago with very little interest. If anyone was thinking about it, now is the time.

Should I bump up the for sale adds? Now that the mobile device is gone, folks will have to call a speak with me instead of texting seemingly forever only to leave me with wasted time.
So you bought up all that premium equipment and you're not going to use it???

jasonc
01-30-2018, 06:40 PM
So you bought up all that premium equipment and you're not going to use it???

Good Lord that's irony there, ha.

Meyers Farms
01-30-2018, 06:45 PM
Good Lord that's irony there, ha.

:stab:bif:hehe:

Bodacious
01-31-2018, 05:33 AM
So you bought up all that premium equipment and you're not going to use it???

Exactly.

zstroken
01-31-2018, 05:48 AM
Sorry for the absence. Nothing new to report on the crazy ideas. As much as I want to take the time to pursue them, I've managed to get myself back to reality. That old adage "A fool and his money are soon to part" describes my situation to a T. I have begun rebuilding the nest egg I have pilfered away in the last several months.

I have no one to blame but myself as I am the one who chose to throttle the 'Crazy Train' I created.

I am no longer perusing the Ultimate Callout Challenge and probably never will. I apologize to those who were sorta rooting for me. Had I kept my sense about me, I would have never entered to begin with.

Stalnaker Racing Services no longer exist nor does the cell phone, E-mail account, and credit card machine associated with that business.

I will be selling all the high priced items I've purchased at reduced cost in an effort to simply pay my federal taxes coming due in May. Please look back through my 'for sale' post. If you see something you like, shoot me a PM with an offer. You just might get a 'smok'n' deal.

My only interest right now are to finish the responsibilities I have promised and get back to generating income for my family. I thank God above they are still here with me. I would have given up on someone like me a long time ago.

I have absolutely no interest in racing of any kind now or in the foreseeable future.

Again, my apologies go out to ones I affected with my ridiculous craziness.

Arch


So did you just have a weak moment? Ill thought out business plan, or? As a person who gave up truck pulling, I have realized that my retirement funds have grown substantially since. I kind of gave it up as our kids were of an age that they had become so involved with sports and activities, my truck had sat for over a hear. The growing of retirement was just a side effect. LOL

dieselbeef
01-31-2018, 06:07 AM
yea..it happens..hence the end of my motorcycle racing career as well...fun while it lasted aye man!

RacinDuallie
02-02-2018, 01:15 PM
Good Lord that's irony there, ha.
:hehe: I hear ya, but I still have my hooptie and goodies for it, just taking care of priorities first, rejuvenate the funds, then hit on it again.

Snedge
02-02-2018, 03:35 PM
:hehe: I hear ya, but I still have my hooptie and goodies for it, just taking care of priorities first, rejuvenate the funds, then hit on it again.

I was gonna say, your projects may or may not be completed (ever), but you are not parting with anything. LOL