PDA

View Full Version : Daily driver and Tow Build: 2013 Ram 3500 6.7L/Aisin


Bersaglieri
04-21-2019, 09:45 PM
After years of debating, saving, and "thought" I broke down and bought a newer truck. A Cummins powered 2013 Ram 3500 with an Aisin. The truck has 3.42 gears, a 12,300lb GVWR, and factory 20" wheels. I bought it with 189,xxx miles and it is from Texas. I plan to discuss and track the progress of this truck in this thread.


http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1000&pictureid=3623


First, this truck is way too nice for me. If it were my dirty job truck it would look like a Mark Nixon scrapper special in a week or two. Therefore I am keeping my trusty ole '97 12 valve truck, which I have had for about 12 years, for the normal day to day farm duties and trying to preserve this truck for as long as possible.

Second, this truck is already missing those parts due to a failure of those parts. According to the previous owner who I tracked down, it is has a "hard flash" on the ECM from a shop to reflect this. He also claims it had a new CP3 installed after it "went out". A turbo actuator was also replaced and then he traded it off because the repairs had him worried.

And now I own it. I am planning some mild performance items, tires, a buck stopper, and level kit.


Tuning: I have found, or maybe not found, much for information on tuning with Aisins. I know a transmission tune is nonexistent and shops who are willing to tune Cummins in front are somewhat quiet about it. Does anyone have some insight in this? I have read in several places that you can run mild to wild tunes with an Aisin but you cannot just flip the knob and beat the guts out of it. It's better to pick a tune and let it adapt for a week or more before you tow or run it hard.

Also under tuning. I'm green on electronics. My recent electronic diesel conquest was a LB7 Duramax and a 7.3L Powerstroke. I am far behind the curve. Should I just find someone reputable to tune the truck and let them decide between EFIlive, MM3, and EZlink? EFIlive would not be terrible since I have a friend who has the program on his laptop. I'm not looking for 250hp tunes, just some to liven up the drive, help MPG's and towing a little. Assuming it can be done with an Aisin to begin with. Since the Aisin might be tricky to deal with I thought about finding someone local to tune it so they can test drive or dyno it if necessary. Which brings me to another point, I can barely find anyone with an Aisin truck near a dyno.


Air in/air out: Evidently there is a active air system on this truck. I don't know how it works, but I see that there are some flaps that open to the grill and fender void in the airbox. The stock paper filter is dirty so I spent $15 and picked up a K&N to try. Maybe these are not recommended on a 6.7l with its extra sensors and such, but for $15 I figured I'd give it a shot. I run oiled filters on my Excursion and the 12v, although those are primitive in comparison.

The truck has a factory exhaust with a 4" muffler or resonator welded in. I am thinking about at least unbolting it and looking inside to see if it's straight through or what. If not I will likely install an old 4" MBRP muffler I've had laying around or possibly straight pipe it depending on how it sounds.

That's about it for performance. Other than EGT, alot of the gauges are on the dash. I was surprised by this, and I haven't even found all the buttons yet. I would like to have an EGT gauge for towing, perhaps gauges will be taken care of by the tuning apparatus?


Wheels, tires, and rake: Rake. Being a CCLB this truck has quite the grandpa rake so a leveling kit will be in order. I have had hellbentsteel pucks on my '97 for over a decade so I can't see much use in spending extra for new springs. However I do plan on installing the ranch hand style bumper before the level kit so I can make sure it's the right amount of spacing once the extra weight is on there. Out back the truck with get the usual Firestone airbags to control the sag from trailer weight.

Wheels and tires. I'm not sure I'm a fan of these 20" wheels. Looks a bit tacky to me and the tires are astronomical compared to the 16" tires I'm used to purchasing. I'm on the fence about buying a set of Alcoa forged 18" wheels that came on Bighorns or keeping these. The Alcoa wheels weigh 30lbs and mine weigh 39.2 according to Ram. The tires [if you pick the same size] are the same weight for either a 18 or 20" wheel. Therefore you are saving some rotational mass and maybe some MPG by running a 18" wheel. PS Ram states the SRW wheels available in 2013 as having a 3500lb rating, conveniently half of the rear axle rating. I plan to run under a 35" tire for MPG and towing ability. Looks like a 285/65/R20 or similar sized tire isn't much heavier than stock but runs a little taller.


Maintenance: Are there any good sources for basic maintenance on these trucks? I think I saw two fuel filters, and someone told me they take synthetic 5w40 oil now. I'd like to swap in fresh fluids and filters in most areas since the truck is new to me. I figure an Aisin fluid and filter swap is also in order just to have a starting point, not sure if that is a dealer only thing or not.


That should be a good start. I will post a few pictures as I go along, maybe some of the road trip to buy it, I just have to upload them. I'm actually pretty excited to tow with this truck, I think that is where it will really shine.

99GreenCummins
04-22-2019, 05:33 AM
Water pump recall been done I'm assuming?

My 14 goes in this week for new turbo. Was having typical vgt issues. Goes to dealer in a couple weeks and gets all the recalls.

As far aisin, they remind me of an Allison. Firm and confident shifts. Seems to want to lug in some gears in my opinion. But yes, they need to learn driving habits. Can't go from grandpa to drag race quickly.

Egts will have to be added to any monitor by way of a probe. I have a raceme. If it didn't already come with truck, I would have gotten a cts2.

Bersaglieri
04-23-2019, 07:43 PM
Water pump recall been done I'm assuming?

I'm not sure, I read over the carfax, perhaps I'll have to look closer and see if that was done. There is one for a drag link, but I'm not sure if there is a fix yet. Someone mentioned they are welding the lock nuts on them.

My 14 goes in this week for new turbo. Was having typical vgt issues. Goes to dealer in a couple weeks and gets all the recalls.

This is my first VGT truck, so I am new to those type of issues. I do however look forward to trying out the exhaust brake.

As far aisin, they remind me of an Allison. Firm and confident shifts. Seems to want to lug in some gears in my opinion. But yes, they need to learn driving habits. Can't go from grandpa to drag race quickly.

I agree with that. I wanted a 4th gen for a while, but until now the Aisin was out of my range. I was very close to buying a few F350's for a Cummins/Allison conversion but I came across this and make the jump. So far I like it.

Egts will have to be added to any monitor by way of a probe. I have a raceme. If it didn't already come with truck, I would have gotten a cts2.

I have an Edge CS2 in my Excursion. It was useful for the 7.3L parameters but once the VE 12v motor is in, I'm not sure it'll be as useful. Perhaps it'll sneak it's way into the new truck.

In speaking with the P/O he claims the shop that performed the deletes a few years ago flashed a mild 45hp tune onto the truck. That explains the slight puff of smoke on a free rev.

I'll try to post some pics tonight of some stuff.

Mark Nixon
04-23-2019, 08:37 PM
I feel honored at a mere mention. :D
Looks like you have a nice, "new" truck there. :cool:

Mark.

Bersaglieri
05-26-2019, 06:24 PM
A few updates:

I installed the K&N. I expected it to have an expanded metal support in it like the one for my 7.3L did. I'll check it at some point and see if it deforms. I don't drive it enough to notice a difference other than a little more whistle.

I did watch a video on the baffles and foam that is in the factory intake. I don't know how I feel about there behind foam in the intake track. I'm not so worried about the baffles. Here is the youtube video I saw. They guy does a decent analysis showing differences with and without the baffle/foam but I'm not sure he took all aspects into account. Lower boost isn't always a bad thing in my opinion. Ram 6.7L Cummins Air Intake Baffle - Keep it or remove it? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er_SDS4vcPg)

What are you guys doing about this dead pedal from a stop or slow roll? It's decent delay between my input and it actually revving the motor. I see people talk about the BD throttle sensitivity box, is that a thing or can it be tuned to be better? That's about my only complaint about this truck. I also have notice a sort of engine "bounce" if I let of the throttle quick.


I bought 2016 Laramie wheels with 305/70R18 Mickey Thompson tires already on them. I just couldn't get into the 20" wheel look. The tires come out to 35x12.50x18. I think it changed the entire look of the truck. I did notice it unlocks the converter at certain highway speeds now vs lugging up a grade. They do rub at full lock.

http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1000&pictureid=3631


My next round of upgrades are mopar mudflaps [the rubber style] and some floor mats. My factory floor mats are half rubber and half carpet which is no good for mud and snow. I am looking at Mopar "slush mats" and also Michelin edgeliners. I have weathertech and husky in other vehicles, and they aren't bad, but I wanted to try something different this time.



I'm also looking into factory style fender flares just to keep rocks from chipping up the fender paint and letting rust take root.

Bersaglieri
11-06-2019, 11:38 AM
More pictures are coming. Mudflaps, floor mats and a Leer bed cap have been installed. As well as a Frontier Gear Pro Bumper replacement. There is a lot of 1/4" steel in that thing, very strong. Still looking for fender flares.

Big mod I need done next is a level or small lift. I was going to 2" spacer and rear air bags like my 1997, but people say they are dangerous? The aftermarket coils are softer than stock and I'm concerned they'll react poorly to the extra weight of this 275lb+ bumper. Anyone experienced with these kits? I'm intrigued with the AEV 3" lift kit, very different than the other kits.

Also looking into pedal sensitivity upgrades for the random dead pedal I have run into from time to time. However I was wondering if that $300 would be better spent in some good tunes with the pedal parameters adjusted within the tune.

SPEEDSHIFT
11-06-2019, 02:12 PM
I like the truck man, I just bought one similar. Mine has a 75hp tune from Robert Ivey (CTT now I believe), I am happy with it for now, I dont notice any of the dead pedal people talk about.

Leveling kits are not dangerous, I threw on a cheapo Rough Country kit from Amazon for $100. One day I plan to upgrade to a Thuren kit with King 2.0s though.

Smoken Gun
11-07-2019, 01:53 AM
When it comes to suspension for these trucks my vote is always Carli or Thuren, best in the business.

Sounds like a Carli 2.5" leveling system or Thuren 2.0 IFP system with 0.5" to 2.25" lift would be perfect for you.

https://carlisuspension.com/product/dodge/dodge-ram-2500-3500/3-ram-systems/dodge-ram-2013-3500-3-suspension/2-5-ram-systems/dodge-2-5-leveling-system-2013-3500-diesel-leaf-spring/

https://www.thurenfabrication.com/products/dodge-ram/2014-18-2500-2013-18-3500/suspension-systems/king-2-0-systems/2014-2500-2013-3500-king-2-0-front-234.html

Bersaglieri
12-27-2019, 09:14 PM
I went back and forth on level kits for a while. Honestly I grew tired of the Carli/Thuren drum beating on the forums. I called around and was told I needed to spend thousands on shocks, springs, etc for Baja type stuff when I just wanted a better look and some clearance out front. Same as my trusty 1997 Cummins.

So, I ordered two Rancho adjustable shock level kits. Rancho has never let me down on any of my trucks. One was a 2.5" level that actually had a 2.25" spacer, and the other a 2.5" coil kit that the reviews claimed raised the truck between 2.5-3". After some thought I installed the spacer kit and send the coil kit back. I wanted to keep the factory load rating especially with towing and the heavy bumper. Plus, to spite what some people claim to be a "terrible" ride quality, I am fond of the 4th gen ride quality overall. It's really not bad for a 3500 truck.

I would say the ride was slightly better with the Rancho 9000 shocks set on 5. The kit has sway bar drop brackets and the sway and steering seems to be the same. It also has specs on where to move your caster bolts. The only thing I noticed was a slight shift in the axle and as such the steering wheel being a little off center. I got a tiny bit of vibration over 70mph and I am wondering if the carrier bearing needs spaced down a little. I might experiment with this and report back. I may also be the tires which have a wear pattern from the previous owner. More seat time will say for sure.

I also installed rear Firestone air bags like I have on several trucks to keep things perky on the back side while towing. I'm debating installing the Rancho rear shocks, probably not a bad idea while approaching 200,000 on the odometer. These two pictures are with 15psi in the airbags, which if I recall makes it almost 100% level, maybe a 1/4" rake.

http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1000&pictureid=3676

http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1000&pictureid=3677

Next round of mods:

I'm not sure I need gauges with my mild mods and tune, but I've always got in my head I need more than what the stock stuff shows. I see this MM3 thing which looks nice but isn't exactly cheap either.

New tires. I'm currently on a 305/70R18. It's a 35" tire, but these trucks make them look like 33's. A Toyo 36" might be in the cards, even though I'm big on only buying USA tires. The 315/75R18 says it is allowed to be mounted on a 8" stock wheel, unlike my current tires. 37's seem to be over the top for 3.42 gears, but I'm sure it can be done. 37's look mean as hell on these trucks with a good level kit.

I may probe some tuning companies to see if it's worth getting some fresh tunes, but really this truck does just about anything I need to it. Again, other than the dead pedal once in a while.

WUnderwood
12-04-2020, 09:01 AM
open sesame

Bersaglieri
12-24-2020, 05:39 AM
Ended up going with 37x12.50R17 Cooper ST Maxx tires on 17x8.5 AEV Salta wheels.

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1000&pictureid=3736


Here is one where I test fitted Bushwacker Extend-a-fender flares.

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1000&pictureid=3737

I haven't driven much at all on this setup but what I have driven the biggest different is a slightly softer ride over bumps. However the handling and acceleration seems to be about the same.

zstroken
12-24-2020, 06:51 AM
Looks good, but it definitely looks like it needs longer arms for the front.

Bersaglieri
12-24-2020, 01:56 PM
Thanks!

I agree. Carli, Thuren, and AEV all make kits for moderate level/lifts. I'm currently looking into those. I really want a true 3" front lift and maybe 1-2" bump in the back which would be about perfect for these tires.

Thuren told me their springs will sag due to the bumper and only be a 2.25 or so. Carli has a 3.25" spring but I haven't talked to them yet. I like the AEV kit since it drops the carrier bearing, moves the axle forward and leaves stock springs to maintain GVWR. It's a 3" spacer front and 2" rear so the truck has a little rake left, which isn't trendy, but I like it.

homewrecker
12-27-2020, 06:42 AM
Lorenz Industries use to have some 3” coils with different spring rates to compensate for heavy bumpers. Been years since Ive looked into any of their products


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

roxgeo04
01-21-2021, 10:43 PM
Impressive setup. It really looks great. I recently ordered a set of Alamo Black Rhino wheels (https://4wheelonline.com/black-rhino-wheels.298383) to replace my current wheels that I've been using for 2 years now. Seeing your build makes me excited to work on mine as well.

Bersaglieri
02-15-2021, 02:12 PM
Lorenz is 3rd gen only I think.

Thanks Roxgeo04. Black Rhino was on my list, heard good and bad, but they seem to have good designs compared to the usual brodozer stuff.

Bersaglieri
07-17-2021, 07:04 AM
Little update:

I lost my exhaust brake the other day which made my drive through TN, VA, and KY and back quite miserable. I checked the PID's on the raceme and the VGT actual is 49.90 and desired varies between 46.xx and 56.xx. Codes P003a and P226c. The truck is still on the original tune it came with.

Now comes the options.

1. Clean the 215,000 mile VGT/turbo - [Free but possibly a waste of time]
2. Buy a new Holset or upgraded BD/Fleece/ATS VGT turbo - [~$2800 but possible future failure]
3. Buy a Steed Speed T4 manifold, run a Borg SXE turbo in stock location and BD exhaust brake kit - [~$3000 - Keeps exhaust, oil lines, and intake factory, I'm guessing coolant lines need plugged or capped.]

My big question in all of this, will my current or box tuning need modified for a normal Borg turbo or can it work? I understand it would not be optimal tuning and maybe I leave some power on the table, but I'm not looking for big power, just reliability.

The question that follows that answer is what turbo size to run...

Bersaglieri
08-02-2021, 10:25 PM
The BD Iron Horn kit has been selected to replace the failed VGT. Borg Warner (cover says BD Diesel) SXE S364.5 and BD Pulse Manifold. The turbo specs are 64.5/73/.91 T4.

If the turbo swap results are good an inline exhaust brake will be installed as well.

Bersaglieri
12-06-2021, 03:40 PM
The BD Iron Horn kit seemed to help with the tune my truck came with, if it really had a tune at all. It was hard to compare since the stock turbo VGT was stuck, but it felt like the low end was about the same, but the mid and high end was much better. Probably would have noticed better gains if it didn't have 37" tires with 3.42's. It dropped in with minimal effort, stock airbox and exhaust bolted right up.

Then the RaceMe. I didn't tune until after the Iron Horn kit, but holy crap did it wake up the truck. Up until this point I was slightly unimpressed with the 6.7L. Flaccid throttle response and general lackluster power compared to my compound 12v. Adding 37's, which was my call, made things worse. Maybe I was asking too much? Maybe it didn't have the tune it claimed? Not anymore...the 120hp tune woke the truck up in a major way. Immediately, I noticed my typical throttle input was spinning the tires in the gravel driveway. Power is there off idle and comes on smooth. When the converter locks up, hold on, cause over 2/3 or more throttle it will throw the gauge to 40-45psi and accelerate enough for me to let off in short order. A small puff of initial smoke and clean through the RPMs. I will say the 150hp tune has a different fueling curve and it has a very slight haze under heavy throttle. Towing with the S364.5 keeps the EGT's in check quite well, even on the 120hp tune. Never reached 1200 while grossing 26,100lbs through PA/MD/WV/OH.

Overall at this point I am liking the truck a lot more, it is much closer to what I have with the 12v and what I expected when I initially bought it. I am installing the 4" BD exhaust brake kit this week and will report back with results at a later date.

Finally, gears. I really like the way this truck looks with 37's, but the 3.42's are killing me when I gross over 20,000lbs. I have swamped on 35's to compare since the turbo and tunes, but it's still not much better at those weights. I do this several times a year so I am considering swapping gears. I did consider selling this truck and buying a dually but the way the truck market is, I would be losing much more money than the cost of a gear swap. I can post the math, but it basically breaks down like this: 37" tires with 4.10's are basically the same as a 35" tires with 3.73's, which is what I think most of these trucks probably should have came with from the factory. Light towing or mall crawling is fine with 3.42, but not what I'd prefer for towing. I am considering installing the Power Wagon front locker when installing the gears and making use of one of the auxiliary buttons on the dash.

56cummins
12-07-2021, 08:27 AM
Thanks for the write up on the 64mm. That's a nice truck, first time I have seen this thread.