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SMOKIN93
01-01-2008, 08:54 PM
What does it mean when it says "no blocking of suspension"?

Dreambreaker
01-01-2008, 08:59 PM
It means you can't make the rear suspension stiff...this rule will allow the truck to squat.

rocracing
01-01-2008, 09:01 PM
no blocking means you can not have a block between axle and frame, you have to have suspension travel

rockjeep73
01-01-2008, 09:09 PM
As in full suspension travel? No block at all?

SMOKIN93
01-02-2008, 07:35 PM
So if I show up at one of your pulls and I have bump stops with 1" of suspension travel you guys won't let me pull with them?
Also I have a 2.8 truck (street modified) and I have moved the hitch forward from the stock location because all of the other organizations allow it except you guys. Does that mean I would have to pull in super modified with the nitrous and twin turbo trucks?

strokin_early99
01-16-2008, 01:01 AM
Bump

Come on Scott or Randy, I know you can answer these questions.

rocracing
01-17-2008, 07:40 PM
So if I show up at one of your pulls and I have bump stops with 1" of suspension travel you guys won't let me pull with them?
Also I have a 2.8 truck (street modified) and I have moved the hitch forward from the stock location because all of the other organizations allow it except you guys. Does that mean I would have to pull in super modified with the nitrous and twin turbo trucks?

you need to have some suspension travel and not be solid with no movement..

yes at this time that would put you into the next class.

Camotanker
01-17-2008, 07:53 PM
the problem is... VERY FEW PEOPLE want to sledpull in the pacific NW (Washington, Oregon, parts of Idaho... you get the idea).

The rules were meant for those in the local area when the NHRDA first got started. In the NHRDA's beginning, most races were within a few hours distance. The NHRDA has quickly grown. The rules do need to be revamped for other zones or districts.

Unfortunetly, I regret to inform you there aren't alot of sledpulling trucks in our area designed for sledpulling that you would find in the MidWest or EastCoast.

Sledpulling has been a "casual event' in the NW it will continue to be so probably for atleast the next 5 years. I recommend that each race director design their own rules from the demographics around them. Rules for the East coast cannot and willnot be supported in the NW. With those rules I don't believe we would have any trucks pulling. Nor-Cal and South-Cal probably could come close.

As for the blocking issue, as long as you have some travel you would be good. Bump stops are fine as long as there is a gap.

Modification of the stock hitch setup would bump you to another class.

Sledpuller
01-17-2008, 08:12 PM
t Rules for the East coast cannot and willnot be supported in the NW.


Where we are, so you shall soon be.

You guys have the same power levels as we do in the lower classes. I understand completely making power rules to fit your local trucks, but keep in mind, every rule we have is there for a reason.

Whether its safety, or something as simple as suspension stops to keep from breaking your springs(been there, done that, overloads, were overloaded:)) they may help you in the long run, and just maybe save your guys some parts, or injury.

The sport of Diesel sledpulling has been very lucky so far, considering how fast the power out ran the safety equipment. Don't let your "casual" pulling ruin it for the rest of us.

Camotanker
01-17-2008, 08:24 PM
there hasn't been much sledpulling in the NW for 2 years. I highly doubt it will be big in our area any time soon.

the lack of sleds are a big issue where we are. venues also.

not many are willing to go to the crazy lengths you guys have gone to also for safety. just what i fell i have witnessed.

BigBadDodge
01-17-2008, 08:31 PM
How many sled pulls does the NHRDA actully have booked, is this discussion for not?

BBD

Sledpuller
01-17-2008, 08:55 PM
not many are willing to go to the crazy lengths you guys have gone to also for safety. .


WOW! Seriously, if thats the attitude out there, you should stop sled pulling before a U-joint takes someones head off, or a non SFI clutch cuts a foot off.
I guess it is not for everybody.

Hyde
01-18-2008, 10:37 AM
Camotanker, where are you at in the NW? I see that you have raced at SRP and I would like to see pulling get big up here too.

BowtiedCTD
01-18-2008, 01:23 PM
CamoTanker, are you serious??? I dont think you know what you are talking about. I have been in contact with Chris and what you are sayin is exactly AGAINST what we have been talkin about. NHRDA is just as safety oriented as DHRA. You seem to be a person that has never been involved in actual sled pulling. And are you affiliated with NHRDA or just spewin more nonsense???

RacinDuallie
01-18-2008, 02:50 PM
Actually- I believe the notion of different sled pulling rules for the different zones is a wrong statement to make. However, a countrywide standardization of rules and safety requirements for each classification would be best implimented. These safety requirements and standardization of class rules eliminates favorable regions and levels the playing field. And as far as everyone following the same safety requirements -that's nessesary for driver safety, sled operator safety, various flagmen/women safety and most important- spectator safety...... We cannot have different rules laid out depending upon region..... :pop:


Myself- I would LOVE to see more NHRDA Sled Pulling Action pick up- if there is support- we will bring it.:rockwoot:

Camotanker
01-18-2008, 10:56 PM
How many sled pulls does the NHRDA actully have booked, is this discussion for not?

BBD

Scott,
There are zero pulls booked for this year. As of now PNW, the only place NHRDA sledpulling has occured officially to date, there has been nothing put together for this year or any future years at this time to my knowledge.

Camotanker
01-18-2008, 10:57 PM
Camotanker, where are you at in the NW? I see that you have raced at SRP and I would like to see pulling get big up here too.

Hey Hyde,
Near Seattle Washington. A small group of us would LOVE if sled pulling took off locally... there has been alot of talk and effort through the years... but no luck yet.

Camotanker
01-18-2008, 11:06 PM
CamoTanker, are you serious??? I dont think you know what you are talking about. I have been in contact with Chris and what you are sayin is exactly AGAINST what we have been talkin about. NHRDA is just as safety oriented as DHRA. You seem to be a person that has never been involved in actual sled pulling. And are you affiliated with NHRDA or just spewin more nonsense???

Bowtied...
Thats fine if I don't know what I'm talking about... Not sure why you are bringing all this anger at me in a thread that I have been trying to be helpful in. Chris has been to the NW once, maybe twice to my knowledge. Never for a sledpull event. If Chris is living in a hopeful world than good for him. I'm telling you the reality of sledpulling in the PNW. Thats all I can speak of. I have had countless talks with Randy, Lenny, and many others hoping something would spark but never has.

Lenny (DDP)
Bondo
BHaner
KWiebe
DJ Kosa

Have the most competitive trucks in the NW. Not that means anything... but if I can list them on one hand thats bad.

For the matter, I used to help the NHRDA at their sledpulling events. In regards to safety, yes of course safety is a factor... however... if you were to compare PNW safety to midwest/east coast safety, we have the basics. Our safety rules and what the market will support is not close to what is being done in the midwest and etc. Very FEW people in our neck of the woods are wiling to add safety cut off switches, fuel cut offs, driveline hoops and etc. I have seen countless events online where these highly modified trucks in other parts of the country have hundreds of trucks show up with the most extreme safety measures which the market can support. At this time, there is no interest in folks doing these mods for one or two sled pulls. There is a lack of venues and sleds in the PNW.

I'm not going to argue the fact, if you think that you and Chris can bring your two man team to our area and provide us with sled pulling... I would welcome both with open arms. Do what we couldn't do.

I HAVE BUSTED MY ASS AT MULTIPLE SLEDPULL EVENTS FOR THE NHRDA HELPING RUN EVENTS AND CORDINATE THEM. TO INCLUDE DR SPEED AND BHANER.
Good night.

Camotanker
01-18-2008, 11:11 PM
Actually- I believe the notion of different sled pulling rules for the different zones is a wrong statement to make. However, a countrywide standardization of rules and safety requirements for each classification would be best implimented. These safety requirements and standardization of class rules eliminates favorable regions and levels the playing field. And as far as everyone following the same safety requirements -that's nessesary for driver safety, sled operator safety, various flagmen/women safety and most important- spectator safety...... We cannot have different rules laid out depending upon region..... :pop:


Myself- I would LOVE to see more NHRDA Sled Pulling Action pick up- if there is support- we will bring it.:rockwoot:

Maybe you missed the FACT.... there is very little interest in the PNW. Most folks out this way are interested in drag racing and drag racing only.

Its easy for you to make an uneducated statement of standardized rules for everybody not knowing what regional markets will, and willNOT support.

You bring a 20 sled pull event season to the Pacific NW and I will invest in doing these mods and I'm sure others will too.

I understand the NHRDA sledpulling is new to most of you... but we have been trying hard for 3 years to make it take off. If someone out there has pixie dust to make it work... then do it. Its easy to Monday night quarterback, i'm just trying to relay the reality of our situation.

Camotanker
01-18-2008, 11:14 PM
i would also like to add that I spent last season, because there was no NHRDA season, chasing sledpulling events trying to network. This year, we will be on our own doing it for fun with tractor people.

Banks, Oregon.
Sublimity, Oregon.
Lynden, Washington.

Thats what we have available.

DrSpeed
01-18-2008, 11:23 PM
We've got two pulls scheduled this year, and it's going to be in Lynden.

DrSpeed
01-18-2008, 11:24 PM
As soon as I get off the phone, I'll supply more input. Don't hate on Camo.

NHRDA funds are low this year, so drag racing is in the limelight, and sled pulling has taken the proverbial back seat.

Camotanker
01-18-2008, 11:26 PM
We've got two pulls scheduled this year, and it's going to be in Lynden.

thats news to me.... are they NHRDA?

i talked to randy today... and it seemed business as usual. nothing here.

BHaner
01-18-2008, 11:42 PM
Yep. As Camo said... We just don't have the hard core purpose built sled pullers out here that you guys do on the east coast.

We MAY get 15 trucks on a good day for a pull.

Most are just folks with stock (maybe an edge juice) trucks that come out to have fun.

The rest of us who actually have trucks that put out a little power are there for the same reason. To have fun. Almost all of us daily drive our trucks. So installing a fuel/air cutoff, driveline hoops, etc. is just not something that is going to happen.

Our weight rules are another issue. I don't know how you guys do it over there (8k class).. But getting a 3rd gen quad cab, long bed truck under 8k pounds is a little hard to do. Most are not willing to remove seats, spare tires, etc.

The fact is, if we have trouble getting people to come out and pull now. What happens when they show up and we have to turn them away because their new stock 8400 pound ford with twin turbos doesn't have an air shutoff or driveline hoops.

Don't get me wrong. Safety is VERY important! But is it overboard to require $2000 worth of extra parts to pull twice a year?

DrSpeed
01-18-2008, 11:48 PM
Bowtied...
For the matter, I used to help the NHRDA at their sledpulling events. In regards to safety, yes of course safety is a factor... however... if you were to compare PNW safety to midwest/east coast safety, we have the basics. Our safety rules and what the market will support is not close to what is being done in the midwest and etc. Very FEW people in our neck of the woods are wiling to add safety cut off switches, fuel cut offs, driveline hoops and etc. I have seen countless events online where these highly modified trucks in other parts of the country have hundreds of trucks show up with the most extreme safety measures which the market can support. At this time, there is no interest in folks doing these mods for one or two sled pulls. There is a lack of venues and sleds in the PNW.

I'm not going to argue the fact, if you think that you and Chris can bring your two man team to our area and provide us with sled pulling... I would welcome both with open arms. Do what we couldn't do.

I HAVE BUSTED MY ASS AT MULTIPLE SLEDPULL EVENTS FOR THE NHRDA HELPING RUN EVENTS AND CORDINATE THEM. TO INCLUDE DR SPEED AND BHANER.
Good night.

Yep, I agree with Camo. We've busted our balls trying to make this work. I've even attended events with no intentions of pulling...just to try to network and find sled operators.

You east coast guys got it good. There's a huge market out there. It's definitely spread to CA as well...but the PNW, it's just not there. You're not gonna find a daily driver rig (like most of ours) set up with cages, fire suppression, gate valves, fuel shut offs, etc. That's like Hoss driving the Red Rocket to work every day. yeah, it's street legal, but why would you want to? This is our daily driver, and we do this for fun.

We don't have crazy wheel speed like you do...u joint shields and driveshaft hoops (which I have) is a bit overkill. That's like making a kid on a trike wear a Nomex suit and helmet.

You got to have a market, and those with enough coin to have a dedicated rig to pull on the weekends. We can't afford to have a rig that sits all but two days a year to pull...

You all front the cash to hold the events, and we'll go. It's getting a bit tiring right try to make it work without money.



thats news to me.... are they NHRDA?

i talked to randy today... and it seemed business as usual. nothing here.

that's all I got approved for....I have to call Jeff Kench still.

Camotanker
01-19-2008, 12:00 AM
anyone who may read my posts as being negative... i'm not trying to be. we have worked very hard and i tried answer your questions to the best of my ability. we like sled pulling out here, but the a handful of trucks by them selves for 3+ years hasn't done it yet. if they sound a bit condasending i apologize, they are not meant to. i'm trying to stress the lack of market out here and why rules should be modified regionally per the market.

Camotanker
01-19-2008, 12:01 AM
Yep, I agree with Camo. We've busted our balls trying to make this work. I've even attended events with no intentions of pulling...just to try to network and find sled operators.

You east coast guys got it good. There's a huge market out there. It's definitely spread to CA as well...but the PNW, it's just not there. You're not gonna find a daily driver rig (like most of ours) set up with cages, fire suppression, gate valves, fuel shut offs, etc. That's like Hoss driving the Red Rocket to work every day. yeah, it's street legal, but why would you want to? This is our daily driver, and we do this for fun.

We don't have crazy wheel speed like you do...u joint shields and driveshaft hoops (which I have) is a bit overkill. That's like making a kid on a trike wear a Nomex suit and helmet.

You got to have a market, and those with enough coin to have a dedicated rig to pull on the weekends. We can't afford to have a rig that sits all but two days a year to pull...

You all front the cash to hold the events, and we'll go. It's getting a bit tiring right try to make it work without money.





that's all I got approved for....I have to call Jeff Kench still.

thanks for the update bro.

RacinDuallie
01-19-2008, 06:53 AM
Maybe you missed the FACT.... there is very little interest in the PNW. Most folks out this way are interested in drag racing and drag racing only.

Its easy for you to make an uneducated statement of standardized rules for everybody not knowing what regional markets will, and willNOT support.

You bring a 20 sled pull event season to the Pacific NW and I will invest in doing these mods and I'm sure others will too.

I understand the NHRDA sledpulling is new to most of you... but we have been trying hard for 3 years to make it take off. If someone out there has pixie dust to make it work... then do it. Its easy to Monday night quarterback, i'm just trying to relay the reality of our situation.

Camo,

While I understand there may be limited interest in sled pulling in the Pacific North West, to say it's easy for me to make an uneducated statement on standardization of rules is way off base. :bang

$2000.00 in extra safety equipment? How so? With fabrication skills this can be drastically chopped down from the inflated estimates. Perhaps you never seen a mechanically pumped engine run away? Perhaps you never seen a truck try to shut down that couldn't because of leaking turbo seals continuing to supply oil, thus getting ingested to burn like fuel- keeping the engine from fully shutting down in a crisis. Driveshaft loops with u-joint shielding prevent carnage from the drivetrain under heavy loads induced from sled pulling keep broken parts from hitting innocent spectators and track personell...... Turbo shielding is also easily fabricated...... Cross bolts in the exhaust also is another easily fabricated safety measure...... These are basic safety measures that I suggest.... And with fabrication skills and determination one could meet the nessesary criteria needed for safety for all those attending and participating in a Sled Pull Event.........

Directors do have it tough when it comes to implimenting safety standards- I know the average guy would rather invest in power more than safety devices. Kinda like drag racers investing everything into going faster and building more power- yet ignoring another major system involved in racing- BRAKES!!!!!


While it's true the Drag Racing scene may have taken the drivers seat in the NHRDA- but we have not ruled Sled Pulling out. There is a sled pull in Breakaway coming..... We also are possibly looking at a Sled Pull in the North East- Yes I know there are alot more die hard pullers in this region. But first and foremost to obtain sled pull events there HAS to be support from the pullers as well as support from the sponsors- when sponsors bring in the money for event purses- THE PEOPLE WILL COME.....$.02


Trust me I understand your frustration- Diesel Racing in the North East was virtually non-existant, that changed with determination and dedicated people beating the drums- getting the folks out- contacting sponsors, ect. Look at where we were 5 years ago. This Diesel Motor Sport Trend is gaining steam all across the United States. That doesnt mean it will happen overnight.

A famous quote I live by is : "If you build it, they will come......."

Peace out......

Camotanker
01-19-2008, 11:31 AM
Camo,

While I understand there may be limited interest in sled pulling in the Pacific North West, to say it's easy for me to make an uneducated statement on standardization of rules is way off base. :bang

$2000.00 in extra safety equipment? How so? With fabrication skills this can be drastically chopped down from the inflated estimates. Perhaps you never seen a mechanically pumped engine run away? Perhaps you never seen a truck try to shut down that couldn't because of leaking turbo seals continuing to supply oil, thus getting ingested to burn like fuel- keeping the engine from fully shutting down in a crisis. Driveshaft loops with u-joint shielding prevent carnage from the drivetrain under heavy loads induced from sled pulling keep broken parts from hitting innocent spectators and track personell...... Turbo shielding is also easily fabricated...... Cross bolts in the exhaust also is another easily fabricated safety measure...... These are basic safety measures that I suggest.... And with fabrication skills and determination one could meet the nessesary criteria needed for safety for all those attending and participating in a Sled Pull Event.........

Directors do have it tough when it comes to implimenting safety standards- I know the average guy would rather invest in power more than safety devices. Kinda like drag racers investing everything into going faster and building more power- yet ignoring another major system involved in racing- BRAKES!!!!!


While it's true the Drag Racing scene may have taken the drivers seat in the NHRDA- but we have not ruled Sled Pulling out. There is a sled pull in Breakaway coming..... We also are possibly looking at a Sled Pull in the North East- Yes I know there are alot more die hard pullers in this region. But first and foremost to obtain sled pull events there HAS to be support from the pullers as well as support from the sponsors- when sponsors bring in the money for event purses- THE PEOPLE WILL COME.....$.02


Trust me I understand your frustration- Diesel Racing in the North East was virtually non-existant, that changed with determination and dedicated people beating the drums- getting the folks out- contacting sponsors, ect. Look at where we were 5 years ago. This Diesel Motor Sport Trend is gaining steam all across the United States. That doesnt mean it will happen overnight.

A famous quote I live by is : "If you build it, they will come......."

Peace out......

Mega-Safety beyond what we have for a daily driver is crazy just to attend 1 or maybe 2 events a year in the PNW. Sure people can save money by fabing some of their own work up. However, I do not have a shop, nor do I have the mechanical ability to fabricate any of that stuff that I have seen on many of the trucks back east.

I understand the 'what ifs' you write about; however I can not account for one mechanicly pumped engine sledpuller. The last time I seen anything resembling a 12v pumped up sledpuller was the origional BigBadDodge in Redding California.

I also believe anything you can get going on the east coast will do very little or nothing at all for us in the PNW. Look at how the sport has taken off back east... its not even on the radar here.

They don't even have gas trucks pulling out. I wish it was as easy as just doing the logistics of making it work... however there is a real problem. Lack of the cubic dollar. With money we could make it work and have a very decent season, rent some venues, build a track... but nobody would be in their right mind to invest in that in the PNW where there is NO sledpulling market.

Love ya bro... but you really don't understand.

strokin_early99
01-19-2008, 01:29 PM
I am a daily driver truck with a few mods. I don't see the problem with the cross bolts in the exhaust. It would take 30minutes and $3 at the most. Drive line shields are not real big deal either just $60 in materials and 3-4hours to make it all work so it will be removable.

My biggest gripe being a puller is the 8K weight requirement. Like I said my truck is a daily driver. I work my truck to the hilt daily. I am lucky to get it to 8010lb by stripping everything but the seats out of the truck and that is by draining my fuel tank and metering in 10gallons for the pull.

I increasing the weight limit 8500lb, like the NHRDA, would increase the participation in the stock, work stock and/or street modified classes. However the purpose built pulling trucks in the 2.6, 2.8, street modified classes don't like the idea of increased weight limits.

My $.02 as a small time puller.

extreme diesel
01-19-2008, 04:15 PM
Although I am not involved in your area you may keep this in mind;
3 years ago a small local street pull (no safty rules) had a truck break a u-joint and a piece hit a by-stander. this was a stock truck-no mods as a result the pull is not held anymore and the driver, promoter, and sled operator are/were all named ina million$ law suit. I am not sure if this was ever settled but it makes a liitle safty look real cheap.
just something to think about

Sledpuller
01-19-2008, 07:38 PM
You're not gonna find a daily driver rig (like most of ours) set up with cages, fire suppression, gate valves, fuel shut offs, etc.

Dr Speed, take no offense, but after reading this post, I think the problem is you and Camo are uneducated in pulling safety.

Take 10 minutes of your time and go read the safety rules for any midwest pulling organization, you may be shocked to find out that cages and fire suppression are not requirements on even the MODIFIED divison, most anywhere.
The rules are largely based around rpm(over 4500) and turbo size, because turbos regulate the power.

Many classes, a $300 blanket, and 1 rear U-joint shield are sufficient. Air shut offs should be on street trucks, as far as I'm concerned, but many dont think so.

You two just made a huge thread of nonsense, because you did not even read the rules, before making your posts.:rules:

Camotanker
01-19-2008, 11:18 PM
Dr Speed, take no offense, but after reading this post, I think the problem is you and Camo are uneducated in pulling safety.

Take 10 minutes of your time and go read the safety rules for any midwest pulling organization, you may be shocked to find out that cages and fire suppression are not requirements on even the MODIFIED divison, most anywhere.
The rules are largely based around rpm(over 4500) and turbo size, because turbos regulate the power.

Many classes, a $300 blanket, and 1 rear U-joint shield are sufficient. Air shut offs should be on street trucks, as far as I'm concerned, but many dont think so.

You two just made a huge thread of nonsense, because you did not even read the rules, before making your posts.:rules:

We made rules for the PNW that the market would support. We have the basic safety needs. Crossbolts, the normal tech to make sure the truck is safe and things of that nature.

These rules you speak of... airshut off on stock trucks... blankets... are overkill for the PNW market.

You can continue to make this your own little soap box session, some questions were asked and we tried answering them. You can debate these safety regs all day long. We made the rules the best we could for the people that were willing to pull.

Have fun all of you sledpulling. I hope one day that the bandwagon heads out this way... call me if it does... :thankyou2:

chadow427
01-21-2008, 03:05 PM
Hey guys, first post here, I was referred by another member. Anyways, I'm located in Central Washington, this past year my buddy and I put on two sled pulls, one in Quincy and one in Royal City, and this year we're going to try for five or six pulls. We're not DHRA or NDHRA certified, just a couple of guys who enjoy pulling. Our sled and operator are awesome, and each class is very competitive. Lenny (DDP) helped sponsor both of them, but most of it was out of pocket.

The two that are fairly set in stone is July 4 in Royal, and October 11-12 in Moses Lake. Any interest?

Sledpuller
01-21-2008, 10:04 PM
Looks like the bandwagon was already there.

Go chadow427!!!!!:rockwoot:

BHaner
01-22-2008, 03:19 PM
Hey guys, first post here, I was referred by another member. Anyways, I'm located in Central Washington, this past year my buddy and I put on two sled pulls, one in Quincy and one in Royal City, and this year we're going to try for five or six pulls. We're not DHRA or NDHRA certified, just a couple of guys who enjoy pulling. Our sled and operator are awesome, and each class is very competitive. Lenny (DDP) helped sponsor both of them, but most of it was out of pocket.

The two that are fairly set in stone is July 4 in Royal, and October 11-12 in Moses Lake. Any interest?

Please post your rules, and locations for those events. :)

BHaner
01-22-2008, 03:30 PM
Hey guys, first post here, I was referred by another member. Anyways, I'm located in Central Washington, this past year my buddy and I put on two sled pulls, one in Quincy and one in Royal City, and this year we're going to try for five or six pulls. We're not DHRA or NDHRA certified, just a couple of guys who enjoy pulling. Our sled and operator are awesome, and each class is very competitive. Lenny (DDP) helped sponsor both of them, but most of it was out of pocket.

The two that are fairly set in stone is July 4 in Royal, and October 11-12 in Moses Lake. Any interest?

Also, please stop by NWDiesels.com. This is where most of the locals hang out.

We did know about the Quincy pull last year, but ended up going to Banks, Oregon for the pull there if I remember right...

chadow427
01-23-2008, 05:49 PM
Ok, what we've got so far: July 4 in Royal City, October 11-12 in Moses Lake, tentatively one in Moses in late february, not sure yet. I've got the rules here in Word, but I don't know how to post them. It's posted on NWdiesels.com though. http://www.nwdiesels.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6182

BHaner
01-23-2008, 06:37 PM
Ok, what we've got so far: July 4 in Royal City, October 11-12 in Moses Lake, tentatively one in Moses in late february, not sure yet. I've got the rules here in Word, but I don't know how to post them. It's posted on NWdiesels.com though. http://www.nwdiesels.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6182

Thanks!

Posted some questions in that thread.