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View Full Version : International Coded Block Cummins?


RacinDuallie
08-21-2006, 04:53 PM
:bow: These are supposed to be a real gem of a block if you can locate one.:evil I thought they were industrial type engines??? Is that true?

And other than the markings on the block, under the front gear case- where would one "look" to distinguish if it's the gem or junk coded block??:poke: :poke:

This coming weekend I am going to look at a 12 valver with a P-pump, that's painted a maroon color and have been told there are a few 'yellow' painted parts on it...:evil I'm keeping my fingers crossed but desire additional info to make sure.....


:lolly: :lolly: Someone HELP!!!! :poke:

joefarmer
08-21-2006, 09:49 PM
Did you mean the Mexican block casting numbers? They're located a few inches back from where the 53 series numbers are located. If that's not what you meant, then I have no idea.

brandno.

RacinDuallie
08-22-2006, 04:12 AM
No it's not the mexican coded block. . . There's a special casted marking that is only visible when you remove the front gear case.....

AsTroSS
08-22-2006, 08:37 AM
Darlington (England) built engines (industrial,marine) are different cylinder block than Dodge is using :evil

I think best block is marine 370, because is most powerful factory engine

RyanB
08-24-2006, 03:05 PM
When I shipped my engine down to Haisleys to get built I got a call from Van a few days later.

He said that both my block and head were rare...Im thinking...okay..great..now I have to get another engine cause this one sucks!!!!!!

Turns out he said that they were both International Harvester castings that were cast in Indianpolis. Dodge when stocks of there normal castings would get low they would outsource from IH.

He said that these castings are very high in nickle contect making them ideal for the stresses that a high HP pulling motor puts on them. He said that both his and Curts blocks were IH castings and they kind of collect them for pulling purposes....not saying that normal Dodge Cummins castings arn't good!!!!

He did say there is one thing bad about them and can cause problems. Durring the sand casting process of the block there can be air holes that go from the water jackets into the area just above the cam shaft and you can under the great pressure that the cooling system put out durring pulling actually make its way thru these fine pin holes and into the oil pan!!!

For that reason he sent my block out to be presure tested just to make sure this wouldn't happened (not regularly done with the normal castings)

Now there are a few markings on the block/head that you will find. The block is impossible to see untill you take the timing cover case off...there is an IH symbol behind it. The head is easier to see. It is at the rear of the head on the intake side just infront of the engine lift. (real easy to see)

From what I heard is that not often do you find the two IH castings together...mostly they are mixed and matched. So if you see the casting mark on the head it doesn't mean the block is an IH also!!! just a hint of advice before you go braging to your buddies!

Here is a picture (yeah I know its blury) of the casting mark on my head. Like I said its at the back on intake side just infront of the engine lift. It is hard to see in that pic but it is right below where the two valve covers come together just to the left of teh top bolt on the lift!

RyanB

RacinDuallie
08-24-2006, 04:41 PM
Thanks Ryan!! :ylsuper:
Your reply was just the one I was searching for, and very informative!:bow: LOL
Was that International block:bow: that you have, painted a maroon type color when you recieved it?:poke:

RyanB
08-24-2006, 04:44 PM
No, it was factory dodge black...just like every other pickup. It was out of a Canadian truck though (1996 Dually). I have never heard of any painted maron...does the colour look like it was factory painted or no?

RacinDuallie
08-24-2006, 04:48 PM
From what I gather this 12 Valver is an industrial piece, although the person who told me could be wrong, basically I need to see for myself:doh: ....

I wanted to know if there were any other indications that would tip me off, I'll just get it and tear it down and see if I get a suprise....:aiwebs_029: :rockwoot:

RyanB
08-24-2006, 05:38 PM
I have had my hands on a few industrial 12valves. I used one out of a Hiab Crane for my mock up motor for my conversion. It threw a rod out of the side of the block and a cam lobe (take out by the rod) went flying out the other side.

Who said these cummins were industructable????? This thing was governed at 2200rpm and probably sat there all day long! what happend to it though actually was a rod bearing seased and the rest of the engine didn't like that!

Now I have never really looked to see the actual casting numbers or marks...I will have to check that out sometime when I have time.

I actually used that 6-speed core its bolted to for my mock up too!

RyanB
08-25-2006, 01:28 PM
I got thinking about this post again today on my way to work about this morroon block. If it is indeed an industrial engine more than likley its from something like a Genset that was painted with the whole unit. (I have seen that done many times) if you were to pull something off like the engine lift bracket I bet its Cummins beigh under neath.

I work for a trucking company and shipped ALOT of cummins engines up here to Ontario out of Charlotte,NC (cummins plant) and the only colours I ever saw were the Beigh(industrial engines) or white (marine engines).

Personally I would NOT touch one of either if it was used! main reason is that the engines usually only see 1rpm (governed) that one pictured above is a good example of it...it ran at 2200rpm day in, day out. I personally think the best thing for an engine is variable RPM just like what you would find in a Vehical.

Ryan

wagoneer
08-25-2006, 02:42 PM
When I start to build my second engine and I was cleaning the engine block the black paint was coming off very easly and down was yellou/beige paint. Alsou same was the oil pan.
The engine was coming off the 94´ 160hp ram 2500. I will check out are ther eny marks.

RacinDuallie
08-26-2006, 08:30 PM
Seen the Cummins, Its a 12 Valve 53 coded block, No tag on the side of the gearcase, there was one but it's missing.....

It is marroon in color and it is out of a tractor or something, Gonna grab it sometime soon.
Must leave where its at.

So I'll bring it to the shop and tear it down and see what's up....
I think its a 215 pump on it:ylsuper:

Was told must go, so it'll be gone.:lolly:

Graphic Man
08-26-2006, 10:19 PM
Ryan,
you are in southern ont. i am in Mississauga where are you at?

Scott

PS sorry to hi-jack the tread

kyle_sdp
08-27-2006, 09:06 PM
We had a 98 12V in the shop a few weeks ago for a Piers cam and it was an International block. Was the first one we have seen before. We are in the process of building into 600HP for the guy. Good to know they have seen problems with coolant getting into the oil... Might have to trim fins on the water pump to keep pressure down at 4k+ rpm.

RyanB
08-28-2006, 11:06 AM
Ryan,
you are in southern ont. i am in Mississauga where are you at?

Scott

PS sorry to hi-jack the tread


Kitchener/Waterloo area. Drop me a PM either here or on the TDR!!!

RyanB

TwiztedMetal
08-28-2006, 03:39 PM
Dunno if this is of any use...but International had an Inline 6 that was the DT360, which was essentially the same engine as the cummins, bigger block i think...not sure. i do know however the DT360 also had a P7100 Bosch pump as well.....:evil

Dom

bags1010
06-11-2007, 04:54 PM
Anyone else know about these IH engines? I am building one now and seen the marks, but did not make anything of them until I read this. I have the engine together, but not in the truck yet. Its going into a Ford. It came from a 1998 3500. It has the marks on the head and block. Should I look for something?

JW3
06-11-2007, 06:13 PM
bags,
looks like an IH block to me.

The Mexican blocks will have what looks like a stepped pyramid cast into the front of the block.

MKoth
06-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Dunno if this is of any use...but International had an Inline 6 that was the DT360, which was essentially the same engine as the cummins, bigger block i think...not sure. i do know however the DT360 also had a P7100 Bosch pump as well.....:evil

Dom

The DT360 has almost nothing in common with a Cummins of any kind...

IH used the P-pump on several engines, as did a lot of other manufacturers.

MKoth
06-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Seen the Cummins, Its a 12 Valve 53 coded block, No tag on the side of the gearcase, there was one but it's missing.....

It is marroon in color and it is out of a tractor or something, Gonna grab it sometime soon.
Must leave where its at.

So I'll bring it to the shop and tear it down and see what's up....
I think its a 215 pump on it:ylsuper:

Was told must go, so it'll be gone.:lolly:

Does it have a constant speed, or automotive type governor, on it?

Bobcat698
06-12-2007, 10:07 AM
Well then, I have the International block too! (and to think I was in denial about an IH symbol being on my block LOL!)
And if I'm not mistaken, the head was as well.. It was cast in the USA (actually both my trucks had heads cast in the USA) and I think I saw the IH symbol on that as well. I don't run the IH head anymore as its cracked beyond repair I think.

97' CTD
06-12-2007, 10:31 AM
I dont have any IH symbols but when I went to do my KDP I noticed that behind where my balancer was and behind the oil fill tube that it was yellow like spray paint has anyone else noticed this or is this just normal??

wideopen
06-12-2007, 10:53 AM
So what I gather from this thread is... all you Cummins guys want the IH block.. talk about Irony....LOL

Bobcat698
06-12-2007, 11:45 AM
I dont have any IH symbols but when I went to do my KDP I noticed that behind where my balancer was and behind the oil fill tube that it was yellow like spray paint has anyone else noticed this or is this just normal??

Thats just the old ugly Cummins color.. Mine has (HAD) that as well.

_CH_
06-12-2007, 12:39 PM
So what I gather from this thread is... all you Cummins guys want the IH block.. talk about Irony....LOL
LOL LOL

oldschoolPSD
06-12-2007, 12:58 PM
Dunno if this is of any use...but International had an Inline 6 that was the DT360, which was essentially the same engine as the cummins, bigger block i think...not sure. i do know however the DT360 also had a P7100 Bosch pump as well.....:evil

Dom


You'd know if it was an IH 360... that pig is damn near as big as the 466

Jff24Gordn
06-12-2007, 02:58 PM
The international parts were the first used in dodges. How do I know?? George Cobb has the oldest ram with a Cummins in it that Ive seen, and we all know how well the little red express runs.

Bobcat698
06-12-2007, 07:43 PM
Just took a look at my original head (its sitting in the corner of the shop)
It is also an IH casting.. Looks like I too have the rare combo of 2 IH Cummins castings!

AsTroSS
03-18-2008, 02:01 PM
Anyone else know about these IH engines? I am building one now and seen the marks, but did not make anything of them until I read this. I have the engine together, but not in the truck yet. Its going into a Ford. It came from a 1998 3500. It has the marks on the head and block. Should I look for something?

I just disassembled my 98 12V Cummins and I found same INternational symbol behind front cover and it is STORM block.

Also every conrod had stange symbols, tomorrow I try to make some pictures.

I have 4 blocks and all they are made in different country:
1. my 98 Storm -> made in US
2. '85 truck -> made in Canada
3. '02 Strom --> made in Mexico
4. '89 industrial -> made in GB

zstroken
03-18-2008, 02:26 PM
The engines made in NC are made at the Rocky Mountain if I remember correctly, I was approached to several times about a job there, but was to to stay away, as the place there was outdated and a dump. As far as the IH being better blocks, I had heard this too and did some snooping around with some of my cummins contacts, and navistar contacts. They said that the metallurgy of the castings is basically identical, and if there is a difference it was small enough to not make a difference.

This confirmed my hunch in manufacturing if your using both in house and outsourced parts. If the oursourced parts are made of a harder metal it will eat the tooling up faster than the in house parts. What do you think cummins would have said to that? They would have pushed the increased tooling cost back to navistar and navistar would have changed their metallurgical mix ASAP.

Johnny Big Rig
03-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Ive seen a IH block in a 92' dodge. does anyone know how far back this has been going on?

ford69557ci
03-18-2008, 06:01 PM
my current 91 has the ih casting marks and as far as i know its an original engine in the truck

bonesmx2000
03-18-2008, 06:50 PM
my buddy at cummins said that those blocks are navistar\international block and that they arent anything special just cast by IH

ford69557ci
03-18-2008, 07:47 PM
I have a 370 marine engine and the block looks the same is there somethin better about it?

MAXTORQ
04-28-2008, 07:53 PM
JUst happened to poke across this thread . For those who don't know Storm stands for:

S Standard
T Thread
O O
R Ring
M Metric

inline6359
04-28-2008, 08:33 PM
So i should hang onto this head i bought a couple of weeks ago? Has an international casting mark on the head, and didnt think anything of it until now.

MAXTORQ
04-28-2008, 09:04 PM
Only thing different that you have to remember is that the valve stem seals are different than that of a regular 12v. They are a bit larger ID around the guide.

Glory part about the block is if you have a 98 then a 24valve head can be swapped in on the block . WaLa 24v P/pump.

But none the less they are good blocks and heads.

1000EE-Monarch
03-18-2009, 08:16 PM
I have been tinkering with a '95 engine and it definately has an IH head here's a pic of the IH logo on the head:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo190/1000ee-monarch/HPIM0889-1.jpg?t=1235947525

The interesting thing is a pattern of small bumps on the block next to the starter under the fuel lift pump:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo190/1000ee-monarch/HPIM0870.jpg?t=1235947657



I can't say I've seen this on any other block. Anone have any ideas what this means??

Texas Cowboy
03-18-2009, 08:46 PM
Here is a pic of Internatioanl block. My block and head are both IH. MAXTORQ took this pic while tearing down and building my super awesome engine.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/BigCountry-12v/31.jpg

Fireman450
03-19-2009, 03:33 AM
I also discovered that I have an IH block in my 94. Very informitave thread guys.


Fireman450

PRattenbury
03-19-2009, 04:36 AM
My 94 has th IH block. Not sure on the head, but I'll check. Of course, the intake section of it is gone now. :evil

Snedge
03-19-2009, 06:41 AM
I've seen a few of these myself.

9 LIVES
03-19-2009, 07:08 AM
I have several heads and blocks with IH castings.

RyanB
03-19-2009, 09:35 AM
my engine had the little bumps refered to above...IH head and block.

ILLINOISRAM
03-19-2009, 09:37 AM
I dont know about the metal properties differences, but i do know that alot of casting foundries will outsource buiseness from other companies because it is all about money. Cat in peoria was casting blocks for JD but then JD built a better more effeciant plant so now they will cast them for cat.. This also goes by engine block sizes too. I used to run a drill rig and would do soil borings for like when they were going to build a new plant or add a new line, plus alot with the epa for the oil contaminated sand after casting seting water sampleing wells. Tim

Persingerpulling
07-28-2009, 11:49 PM
Bring up an old thread, but just found I have an I.H. head and block combo.

1000EE-Monarch
07-29-2009, 09:13 AM
Bring up an old thread, but just found I have an I.H. head and block combo.

Seems like there were more of those in '95 than any other year.

Does your block have the bunch of bumps by the starter (like in the photo on the previous page)?

Persingerpulling
07-29-2009, 11:14 PM
Yes it does. I'll try to get some pics when I can.

Meyers Farms
07-30-2009, 12:03 AM
Got the IH block in my '97, have to check the head in the morning.

RamRollinCoal
07-30-2009, 12:06 AM
I've got a block, hopefully a good build base for 700hp...

roachie
07-30-2009, 10:11 AM
http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo61/roko59/fummins/IMG_0522.jpg

You can partialy see the bumps on the right in this one:
http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo61/roko59/fummins/photo-52.jpg

AsTroSS
07-30-2009, 10:24 AM
Here is bigger picture .....

1000EE-Monarch
08-18-2009, 11:03 PM
AstoSS what kinda engine is that in the picture above? Marine? Air-to-water intercooler, wierd oil pan, etc. etc. looks different....

roachie
08-18-2009, 11:06 PM
Looks like a buss application?

1000EE-Monarch
08-18-2009, 11:07 PM
I'm glad that there's a bunch of blocks with the bumps buy the starter that are IH blocks! We might have the beginnings of a way to identify an IH block without having the timing gearcase removed.

Now, just to be sure, does anyone have a non-IH block that has the bumps?? Also, any IH blocks without the bumps?

roachie
08-18-2009, 11:10 PM
Im more curious if they offer any additional strength over a standard block.

Or what is the strongest OEM block.

Im guessing the 480HP marine CR block now....

SCHOOL BUS
08-19-2009, 12:18 AM
so...ford owns cummins?

roachie
08-19-2009, 12:23 AM
STFU





:hehe:

5150ram
08-19-2009, 12:32 AM
My I/H block cracked in the main journals. It also had the bumps on the side.

KILLER 'B'
08-19-2009, 12:34 AM
My I/H block cracked in the main journals. It also had the bumps on the side.

where did it crack exactly...?

AsTroSS
08-19-2009, 12:46 AM
AstoSS what kinda engine is that in the picture above? Marine? Air-to-water intercooler, wierd oil pan, etc. etc. looks different....

The engine is from Hitachi excavator. Original block with casting 50 was cracked and I repace it with '94 Dodge Ram block (International casting).


The picture was made after major overhaul.

5150ram
08-19-2009, 11:24 AM
where did it crack exactly...?

It's hard to see but there is a crack in the bolt hole..

KILLER 'B'
08-19-2009, 11:48 AM
yes that's where i thought... i keep wondering if the motor mounts have anything to do with this... that's alot of torque to be held with those 2 dinky mounts in such a chitty location..

AsTroSS
08-19-2009, 12:45 PM
It's hard to see but there is a crack in the bolt hole..

Was it Storm block?

5150ram
08-19-2009, 02:04 PM
Was it Storm block?

It came with 14mm mains and a single oil drain. I put a block stiffner plate on it and ran it for almost a year like that.

1000EE-Monarch
08-19-2009, 07:08 PM
Was it Storm block?

Speaking of STORM block, do you have any photos of your IH STORM? Curious what the markings look like on the outside.... You just don't come across too many IH blocks on '98 12v's.

AsTroSS
08-20-2009, 01:57 AM
Speaking of STORM block, do you have any photos of your IH STORM? Curious what the markings look like on the outside.... You just don't come across too many IH blocks on '98 12v's.

If You need I can make few pictures in tomorrow

RyanB
08-20-2009, 09:53 AM
Yeah, I am intrested in those also. I have two 98 12valve blocks....one is a 53 though and the other I am guessing is also a 53 but I could be wrong.

Ryan

Texas Cowboy
08-20-2009, 11:03 AM
Got a IH block in my 98' with dual oil drains. But I dont have thosed little bumps by the starter though.

AsTroSS
08-20-2009, 11:07 AM
Got a IH block in my 98' with dual oil drains. But I dont have thosed little bumps by the starter though.

Those little bumps are only in 94-97 IH blocks (pre-Storm), I post pictures of my '98 12V block tomorrow morning

Texas Cowboy
08-20-2009, 11:09 AM
Got cha. TM.

AsTroSS
08-21-2009, 02:48 AM
IH casted STORM block from '98 12V

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/photo/data/500/medium/IH1.JPG

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/photo/data/500/medium/IH2.JPG

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/photo/data/500/medium/IH3.JPG

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/photo/data/500/medium/IH4.JPG


Notice : Not all '98 12V engines are with IH blocks, I have also spare '98 12V engine with Brazil made block

rockjeep73
08-21-2009, 05:53 PM
I'm glad that there's a bunch of blocks with the bumps buy the starter that are IH blocks! We might have the beginnings of a way to identify an IH block without having the timing gearcase removed.

Now, just to be sure, does anyone have a non-IH block that has the bumps?? Also, any IH blocks without the bumps?


I just checked my 89 block, it has the same bumps and is not an IH block. The area of the bumps takes up roughly the same size as the ones in the pictures but there are only about half as many bumps. The bumps arent as "dense".

HIGH TECH RAM
08-21-2009, 09:13 PM
I have the same #6 on my 98 12v block with the IH symbol. How do you know if its a storm block? Also my head has the stepped triangle in the back by the lift hook. Is that Mexican? I heard that the nickel content was Higher in the mexican stuff. is that true?

AsTroSS
08-22-2009, 02:11 AM
I have the same #6 on my 98 12v block with the IH symbol. How do you know if its a storm block? Also my head has the stepped triangle in the back by the lift hook. Is that Mexican? I heard that the nickel content was Higher in the mexican stuff. is that true?

Here is non-Storm IH fuel pump side:
http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo61/roko59/fummins/photo-52.jpg


Storm fuel pump side:

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/photo/data/500/medium/IH1.JPG


Pre-Storm - 1 turbo oil return adn only 4 threaded holes for engine mounting
Storm - 2 oil return, 6 mounting holes for engine mounting


Just see the pictures, there is lot of differences

Mexican casted symbol should be like cut half triangle, not 2 triangles facing each other like IH

9 LIVES
08-22-2009, 07:55 AM
Funny....all the blocks I have are IH blocks. Same with cylinder heads.
Lucky I guess my 98 storm is IH. I've had 4 of them without even trying...just luck

HIGH TECH RAM
08-22-2009, 08:25 AM
Well looks like I got a 98 Storm IH block and a Mexican Head

Delinquent
02-20-2010, 10:18 AM
are there any special benefeits to running a International Head?