Hydrogen generators on Diesels, How come no discussion? 60 MPG Duramax?!?

[Signal 73]

Friend of mine will be doing a Hyd Gen. on his 24 valve CR in the coming weeks. I was floored when he showed me a vid about it and very surprised I had not heard more about them on diesels.
Discussion?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2P1V21DeSs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vaJEhrUFCZU&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RZV5I_TFy1I&feature=related

[toolmanoffroad]

This has been talked about over at 4bt swaps for quite a wile now... I still dont believe it till I see it for my self. Everything I was ever told or read says that it takes more energy to get the Hydrogen than the power that you get out of it... But that wont stop people from selling 100mpg kits..lol
http://4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?p=37005#post37005 is the link...

[Billysgoat]

There is a thread in the Dodge performance section where Jeff Garmon added one to his Dad's truck, picked up almost 4MPG I believe.

[Tree DR]

Energy? More out than in? Here's a good place to find information.
www.rmi.org/images/other/Energy/E03-05_20HydrogenMyths.pdf
You may have to put it in yourself if the link doesn't work.
rmi.org/images/other/Energy/E03-05_20HydrogenMyths.pdf Just add the www. at the begining.

[Sarge1]

I have been looking at this as well. I seen the mason type jar ones which more or less are junk in my opinion. The multiple plate ones seem more promising. I am thinking of trying on my 12v. The setback is howto inject into the engine. I don't see it feasible to inject through the air inlet of the turbo. In order to inject into the intake mani, a venturi of some sort would have to be made to keep the boost from pressuriznig the hydro system. There is a bunch of videos on youtube. The smacks booster looks pretty good. That might be the first one I try to make.

[massdiesel]

We just installed one for a customer and awaiting feedback.Will have to see

[Flybob37]

I just got an email from a guy who states....

"A friend got us started in 1995 on hydrogen. Very simple to build and maintain and is nothing but a win win situation. The oil is noticeably clean to the eye and totally clean in the lab. Cat's lab said the oil was good to 100,000mi. The turd of the three new ones I bought was now king of the hill. Will pull one gear higher than the other two with 1/2mpg any time of year. Another fun thing to do is to test at the emission station. With a good working generator, you will produce no emissions. I have built my own hydra-paks this year. With two stage water injection, bio-diesel and hydrogen I have brought my 7.3 Excursion from 14mpg to 21mpg. I know I'm not the only one interested in this technology and with only $150.00 wrapped up in my hydrogen generator, It's a win win over just about any other mod. "

Would love to know if it really works....hard to understand how someone has been using this for 13 years but the rest of us know nothing about it...

[Dellsdog]

I am on my 3rd generator and have been having great sucess. I didn't believe it worked either until I built my first one for @$40.00 and 1/2 hour time. Also making SVO fuel and LOVE it.....$1.00 per gallon cost into my tank. I am looking to get into waste engine oil, anyone doing it???

[dezl]

so who else has info on this?

[Diesel Freak]

Energy? More out than in? Here's a good place to find information.
www.rmi.org/images/other/Energy/E03-05_20HydrogenMyths.pdf
You may have to put it in yourself if the link doesn't work.
rmi.org/images/other/Energy/E03-05_20HydrogenMyths.pdf Just add the www. at the begining.

hmmm that paper is a little out of date (2003) and the cost effectiveness of nuclear is mis-stated.

but it sure tries to tip toe around the second law

[Tree DR]

Energy in vs energy out? If you add a bottle of aditive to you diesel and gain 1/2mpg what made the difference? Improved burn of the existing diesel?
So you use a little elec. to break the water down and gain more in the improved burn of the fuel than what was lost breaking the water down.
What some seem to think is that we are trying to run on straight hydrogen not just assisting the diesel burn.

[Big Blue24]

My buddy, who is a trucker, installed a stainless steel plate system on his truck. He said ever since ULSD came out, he can only average around 5.5 mpg when he's running heavy. On low sulfer diesel, and new injectors in his CAT motor, he said he was averaging 6.5 mpg.

Since adding the hydrogen generator which draws about 35-40 amps, his power has gone up, along with mileage. He said he is now back to 6+ mpg and just recorded a best ever of 7.1 mpg on a stretch from LA to Dallas.

I still won't believe it till I personally try it. Drawing an extra 34-40 amps has to add some wear and tear on the alternator, pulleys, and belts. Once you factor in the wear and tear, maintenance, and initial cost to build a reliable setup, it might not be worth it.

I'd really like to do some back to back dyno runs with and without hydrogen/O2 fogging into the turbo inlet to see if any appreciable HP is gained. That would at least give some evidence that the HP lost to generate hydrogen is being made up for in more complete combustion.

[Trapper]

I have a friend running this on his gasser, it just seems wired he get good mileage for a while but it seems to go back to normal after the PCM figures its getting to much fuel, I told him to reset the PCM by pulling the fuse to the PCM to reset it and I havent heard back form him. It seems to me its still not worth it has has 2 big pickle jars set up, hes thiinking he can profit from sellin sets to people.

[bluedog]

we just installed the sst plate one. from use water4 gas.com kit on a 05 6.0 easy install 500.00 for the kit there claiming 2-4 mpg increase and approx upto 20hp. we will find out in the coming weeks. i did a install shoot on it for diesel builder mag. if it's as good as theye say i will post more. it produces 1 litre of hydro per minute at 16-18 amps.

[bigcalidave]

And what is 1 liter of "hho" per minute going to do for the engine breathing what... 10K liters of air per minute at freeway speeds?

[bigcalidave]

Sorry, forgot I wasn't on cummins f anymore...

Hi, My first post ^^^ right there. Been reading here for a while.

[bluedog]

heard back on the 05-6.0 he picked up 2-miles per gallon with the hydrogen system. we will see if that stays that way only time will tell.

[bigcalidave]

I can pick up 6-7 mpgs by driving very carefully, from 15 to 22... Picking up 2 by driving like you care about fuel economy is SIMPLE.

[Diesel Freak]

yeah, my milage can vary quite a bit depending on how I drive...

[Burner]

Anything good or bad about these systems? I remember Jeff Garmon was doing something with these type systems.

[Carssuck]

I have a friend running this on his gasser, it just seems wired he get good mileage for a while but it seems to go back to normal after the PCM figures its getting to much fuel, I told him to reset the PCM by pulling the fuse to the PCM to reset it and I havent heard back form him. It seems to me its still not worth it has has 2 big pickle jars set up, hes thiinking he can profit from sellin sets to people.


Your buddy needs to "trick" the o2 sensors, because the computer thinks it knows how much oxygen is going in the engine 21% and it knows how much oxygen remains unburned in an ideal 14-1 ratio. When you add hho, the amount of oxygen is greater than the pcm would like to see causing it to think it's burning leam thus adding extra fuel and counteracting any benefits of hho. This is called adaptive learning by the pcm.

There are a few ways to trick the sensors. You can either build a module yourself to alter the voltage from the sensors, or buy them from companies who make them for about 50 bucks, you will need one for each O2 sensor. There is also a so called the "Internet fix" which consists of wrapping the O2 sensors in aluminum foil and securing with copper wire ( I cant figure how this works) but those who have tried it say it supposedly does. The problem with that is, when you choose not to make hho for whatever reason, the engine will run way too lean causing other damage.

[Random_user]

A system that undoes a reaction just to redo it in the name of creating energy is ridiculous. All systems have looses due to friction and heat. An alternator is only about 85-90% efficient. The reaction of burning H2 gives heat and light. Some people with these systems on gassers notice an increase in MPG or power because the PCM is tricked into running lean. As we all should know, gassers make more power and use less fuel when running lean. The problem is that they have more wear and more heat when doing so. PCMs are programmed to add fuel to cool down combustion under heavy load. It should also be mentioned that gasses have no specific volume, so a claim if a liter of H2, could easily be a misrepresentation. People want to believe a lot of things, but the laws of physics are hard to bypass...

[diesel133]

A system that undoes a reaction just to redo it in the name of creating energy is ridiculous. All systems have looses due to friction and heat. An alternator is only about 85-90% efficient. The reaction of burning H2 gives heat and light. Some people with these systems on gassers notice an increase in MPG or power because the PCM is tricked into running lean. As we all should know, gassers make more power and use less fuel when running lean. The problem is that they have more wear and more heat when doing so. PCMs are programmed to add fuel to cool down combustion under heavy load. It should also be mentioned that gasses have no specific volume, so a claim if a liter of H2, could easily be a misrepresentation. People want to believe a lot of things, but the laws of physics are hard to bypass...


You are not creating pure hydrogen, it is technically HHO, which is a molecule that consists on a hydorgen molecule bonded to an oxygen, water is HOH. A gas engine burns about 33% of the fuel in the combustion chamber, diesels burn about 75-80%. HHO is 3 times more potent than gasoline, and physics explains the law of conservation of energy, " you can not get more energy out of what you put into it" so how does this work? You are completing the burn in the combustion chamber, thus adding more power, less heat because it turns into steam and lower egt and less smoke and quieter sound. Gasses are measured in volume, at atmospheric pressure. So it is true you cannot run your vehicle on water with a generator like the one being explained because your alternator would need to produce more energy than what its getting. But you can increase your fuel economy by leaning out fuel and substituting with hho gas, I make and install these for some extra cash on the side, you can find a lot of news clips on youtube and other related videos on boroughs that use these and so much more. If you're wondering about the duramax I know two different people who don't get less than 40mpg. Any vehicle can triple their mileage, this is due to size of generator/alternator/battery combo. It is possible to run a car on water but with AC current, hho contains enough kinetic energy or stored energy that is ready to be let lose.

[millco]

Sounds good. Can you provide any 'proof' of these two? It would be good to triple the mileage of mine, that's for sure! (Poor mileage tripled is going to be pretty good mileage actually!!)

I'm ready to give it a try!

[fordcummins01]

Tuning is the most important part of any hydrogen induced system. Through overriding the pcm or ecm through a digital controller that can control air fuel ratio and or timing is the key. Mythbusters did a special on it. They did prove you can run a car completely off of hydrogen...but, the car backfired. That is where the flash back arrestor comes into play. Also, they didn't have a catalyst to help with electrolysis. (baking soda) At any rate, you have to be careful with this step as we burned up a motor. You won't get the most out of it until you can modify these tables. It does work. We had a dual cannister type system set up on a later model wrangler and saw a 40% increase in mpg. As far as the amp drawing, we ran a bigger alternator to help with the load in a big system. There will always be skeptics in anything is this world. Do some significant research and get it done.

[Pocket]

Tuning is the most important part of any hydrogen induced system. Through overriding the pcm or ecm through a digital controller that can control air fuel ratio and or timing is the key. Mythbusters did a special on it. They did prove you can run a car completely off of hydrogen...but, the car backfired. That is where the flash back arrestor comes into play. Also, they didn't have a catalyst to help with electrolysis. (baking soda) At any rate, you have to be careful with this step as we burned up a motor. You won't get the most out of it until you can modify these tables. It does work. We had a dual cannister type system set up on a later model wrangler and saw a 40% increase in mpg. As far as the amp drawing, we ran a bigger alternator to help with the load in a big system. There will always be skeptics in anything is this world. Do some significant research and get it done.
NASA proved in the 70's that you can run an engine off of hydrogen (note that there is a difference between hydrogen, hydrogen fuel cells, HHO, etc). The problem is, you CANNOT run an engine off of hydrogen you generate from electrolysis hooked up to a vehicle's alternator (this is HHO). Even if you did put in a "bigger" alternator, you still can't even come remotely close.

The best HHO generators put out less than 3 liters per minute. Your typical diesel will gulp down that much air in a second driving down the highway. The HHO is so far diluted that you won't really see much (if any) of a difference.

Oh, and Mythbusters did NOT run the engine off of HHO. They shot straight hydrogen into it from a tank of compressed hydrogen (this was NOT HHO). The motor only sputtered and ran until that hydrogen was burned up. Your claim that they didn't use a "catalyst" to help produce more hydrogen is just crap. That would have made zero difference, and the engine still wouldn't have run. Oh, and it backfired because it was running way too lean, and there was too much pure hydrogen (not HHO) in the intake track.

It is absolutely impossible to run an engine off of HHO generated from electricity from an alternator. Electrolysis is the most inefficient method we have of producing hydrogen.

By the way, running an ICE (internal combustion engine) on hydrogen only results in extremely low engine longevity. They don't last nearly as long as they would running gasoline. What's really sad is that people who promote "tuning changes for HHO" or even fooling sensors (such as O2 sensors on gas engines) are actually causing more engine damage, and significantly lowering the life of the motor. Diesels not so much, since there really aren't any tuning changes (diesels don't have a set air/fuel ratio like gas engines, and can be perfectly happy running rich or lean). So running hydrogen on a diesel won't really affect anything.... including mileage.

Lastly, fuel cells are completely different, as those engines use a reaction between hydrogen and oxygen to create electricity and water.


Oh, and I'm calling BULLCHIT on your claim of 40% increase in mileage on your Jeep. Most of your "mileage gains" were from huge changes in timing, and extreme lean conditions on the motor that destroyed it. Anyone can get an increase in mileage that way... hydrogen had nothing to do with it. :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

And you wonder why the engine burned up :bang

[diesel133]

Mythbusters did many things wrong but in their defense the information and plans that are out now were not out then. You also have to remember that HHO and HH are two different gasses. HHO is what we're producing, HH or H2 is pure hydrogen. Also, the catalyst to use is lye, salt and baking soda will deteriorate your plates or create carbon.

I installed one this morning on a dodge ram 1500, 01 with a 5.9 automatic with 4.10 gears. She was getting 11-12mpg in the city and with the 15plate generator I made out of blank wall plates from home-depot (cheaper for customer to buy) it now gets 19-20mpg city I bet if she did some more ie: exhaust, intake, plugs, she can pull a few more mpg. It draws about 12-15 amps so no worries about the alternator or battery.

Sensor wise, on diesels modify the map or maf sensor on gassers modify the O2 sensor. Carburetors just lean back the fuel with a pressure regulator and you can put a valet switch on 12 valve cummins to lean out fuel.

I know of a guy who will be putting 2 8"x8" dry cell 15 plate generators with pwm (pulse width modulator) more current with less heat. On a 2008 duramax and I can only imagine what he will get getting, I will keep everyone updated. PM me for my personal e-mail or number if you'd like me to build and mail you one.

[diesel133]

NASA proved in the 70's that you can run an engine off of hydrogen (note that there is a difference between hydrogen, hydrogen fuel cells, HHO, etc). The problem is, you CANNOT run an engine off of hydrogen you generate from electrolysis hooked up to a vehicle's alternator (this is HHO). Even if you did put in a "bigger" alternator, you still can't even come remotely close.

The best HHO generators put out less than 3 liters per minute. Your typical diesel will gulp down that much air in a second driving down the highway. The HHO is so far diluted that you won't really see much (if any) of a difference.

Oh, and Mythbusters did NOT run the engine off of HHO. They shot straight hydrogen into it from a tank of compressed hydrogen (this was NOT HHO). The motor only sputtered and ran until that hydrogen was burned up. Your claim that they didn't use a "catalyst" to help produce more hydrogen is just crap. That would have made zero difference, and the engine still wouldn't have run. Oh, and it backfired because it was running way too lean, and there was too much pure hydrogen (not HHO) in the intake track.

It is absolutely impossible to run an engine off of HHO generated from electricity from an alternator. Electrolysis is the most inefficient method we have of producing hydrogen.

By the way, running an ICE (internal combustion engine) on hydrogen only results in extremely low engine longevity. They don't last nearly as long as they would running gasoline. What's really sad is that people who promote "tuning changes for HHO" or even fooling sensors (such as O2 sensors on gas engines) are actually causing more engine damage, and significantly lowering the life of the motor. Diesels not so much, since there really aren't any tuning changes (diesels don't have a set air/fuel ratio like gas engines, and can be perfectly happy running rich or lean). So running hydrogen on a diesel won't really affect anything.... including mileage.

Lastly, fuel cells are completely different, as those engines use a reaction between hydrogen and oxygen to create electricity and water.


Oh, and I'm calling BULLCHIT on your claim of 40% increase in mileage on your Jeep. Most of your "mileage gains" were from huge changes in timing, and extreme lean conditions on the motor that destroyed it. Anyone can get an increase in mileage that way... hydrogen had nothing to do with it. :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

And you wonder why the engine burned up :bang



Diesel have maf or map sensors and they control fuel to air ratio from incomming air which controls how much will be injected. There is no sensor like an O2 sensor to read exhaust mixtures. Because of laws of physics it is so true that you cannot run an ICE off of hho you produced through electrolysis, but you can in fact increase your fuel economy to a satisfying level. The hho gas actually burns hydrocarbons from your engine, lowers egt's, completes the burn, and runs quieter. There is news articles and what not of people who run their vehicles completely off water but they use AC current, remember HHO has kinetic energy which doesn't mean your using electricity to make HHO but actually using electricity to release the kinetic (or stored) energy, same principle goes to shooting a gun, the energy used to release the trigger is not obviously greater than the power of the bullet, it's because your pulling the trigger was enough energy to release the kinetic energy.

[Pocket]

Diesel have maf or map sensors and they control fuel to air ratio from incomming air which controls how much will be injected. There is no sensor like an O2 sensor to read exhaust mixtures. Because of laws of physics it is so true that you cannot run an ICE off of hho you produced through electrolysis, but you can in fact increase your fuel economy to a satisfying level. The hho gas actually burns hydrocarbons from your engine, lowers egt's, completes the burn, and runs quieter.
You obviously don't know how a MAP sensor works. It's based on PRESSURE, not oxygen/hydrogen/etc content. Since HHO output is so low, it has zero effect on pressure, thus a MAP sensor has no readings on it whatsoever, and thus nothing to adjust on a diesel. You have just stumbled onto a forum where people know way more than you do.

If you're adjusting tuning and MAP variables, then you've just achieved the exact same thing that any tuner on the market can do, and you've just benefitted from the exact same mileage gains that you can get without an HHO setup. But congrats on wasting money to install an HHO generator anyway. This is the entire hocus pocus magic act of dealers who push their HHO generators. They have these kits that not only install a generator, but also make tuning changes and/or fool sensors on the engine (claiming it's necessary to get the full benefit of HHO). The result is you get better mileage due to the tuning or changes to sensor inputs, not from the HHO. The main problem is with gas engines, as changing the tuning and fooling sensors typically results in a very lean condition. You end up with hot spots, and burn the engine up prematurely. :bang

Tuning changes (gas or diesel) always will have a larger effect on mileage than HHO. No single HHO generator can gain more than a 2% mileage increase in the absolute best case scenario. Most of the time, HHO results in a 0% net change in mileage (some kits can even cause a drop in mileage). Anything beyond that is the result of tuning changes, not HHO.

There is news articles and what not of people who run their vehicles completely off water but they use AC current
Yeah, I saw a video of that. It was a lawnmower engine, and it idled for only a couple of seconds. When the guys in the video tried to throttle up, there wasn't enough hydrogen, and the engine died. Then they couldn't get it restarted. Takes a lot more amps than you can get through AC current to generate enough HHO to run any car or truck motor, much less a 5 hp lawnmower engine. :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

In addition, there are other videos of lawnmowers running off of HHO with a car battery hooked up. In case you didn't know, car batteries supply more amps than an AC outlet (typical AC outlets are routed through a 15 amp breaker), and some batteries can provide over 200 amps continuous for about an hour. In these videos, they can get a lawnmower to run strictly on HHO (the videos are on Youtube, anyone can look them up). Of course, this isn't possible to do with a typical automotive electrical circuit, since it would drain the battery down to useless in well under an hour, and the electrical components (and alternator) don't support that kind of heavy electrical draw to begin with. But hey!!! the power is there to run a small lawnmower engine, right? Heck, you can even build a homemade welder with a car battery and some jumper cables. Doesn't mean there's enough juice there to power a vehicle engine, and there certainly isn't enough amperage in a typical automotive electrical circuit to make any significant change in mileage using HHO.

And if you are wondering how many amps it takes to generate enough HHO to match your claims.... about 1500 amps to provide a 40% increase in fuel mileage on a typical 4 cylinder gas engine. Which is why I cry foul on your bogus claims in mileage boosts.

remember HHO has kinetic energy which doesn't mean your using electricity to make HHO but actually using electricity to release the kinetic (or stored) energy, same principle goes to shooting a gun, the energy used to release the trigger is not obviously greater than the power of the bullet, it's because your pulling the trigger was enough energy to release the kinetic energy.
Someone needs to attend a physics class.

Any vehicle can triple their mileage, this is due to size of generator/alternator/battery combo.
Complete and total lie.

It is possible to run a car on water but with AC current
Another complete and total lie, and I've just explained why.

[Pocket]

Hmmm... Diesel133 has a total of 3 posts on this forum so far, and they are all about promoting HHO kits.




I smell the stink of troll.....

[jvencius]

Hmmm... Diesel133 has a total of 3 posts on this forum so far, and they are all about promoting HHO kits.

I smell the stink of troll.....

I also smell the stink of someone who's never taken a chemistry class and KNOWS the electron shell structure and bonding sites for hydrogen and oxygen. I've tried to come up with a response (several times) to the falsehoods he's posted and usually end up :bang since there's no way someone like that can be persuaded by unassailable TRUTH...

[LReiff]

...but if this troll can triple fuel mileage with his odorless stink gas, is that not enough? :hehe: :umno:

[diesel133]

First of all I am not an hho dealer or vendor or any of that it's just a hobby, the youtube posts I was talking about was not lawnmowers but many boroughs and cities using these on their dump trucks and police cars and what not. I am the only one on here who has one running on my personal vehicle that I know of and it's working great, as for the map sensor, map is manifold absolute pressure, maf is mass air flow I know what both of them are and do, but the reason why (if you don't have a tuner) you trick the sensor is because you will increase your fuel economy much more by leaning out a little bit of fuel and substituting with hho. When I put this on my truck I didn't have the money for a tuner, which yes does the same, so I put on a $25 map sensor enhancer to run the engine slightly lean and substitute with hho. I do now have a tuner and just set it on fuel economy mode. And for those wondering I pick up 6 more mpg when I use the map sensor enhancer or tuner and the hho lowers my egt's a little. I just use the tuner now. There is vehicles and one is someone I know who have tripled their mileage, it is a sunfire not a truck so nothing was complicated there. But I still want to see one person out there who claims it doesn't work (like I did) try it and see for yourself.

[LReiff]

I guess the part about map or maf tuning improving fuel mileage blew clean over someone head. :bang

[Pocket]

There is vehicles and one is someone I know who have tripled their mileage, it is a sunfire not a truck so nothing was complicated there.
Wow I got a good laugh out of this one. Apparently he thinks we are all stupid and gullible here...


You can't fool us, we all know it's impossible to triple gas mileage in any vehicle with HHO, including a POS Pontiac Sunfire.

[dekocards90]

OK i specifically joined this site to ask a question about this since, after reading all of this I am extremely confused??? My brother bought plans and I am willing to try it on my truck, 02 duramax, so will it work any bit, I was assuming 15% increase. It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure. I don't see youtube videos on boroughs using it by the way.

[kazairl]

I always wondered what would happen if you paired a hydrogen generator with one of these: Waste Heat Engine (http://cyclonepower.com/whe.html)

Course the added cost and weight of hauling a 10kw generator around might offset the benefits.

[diesel133]

OK i specifically joined this site to ask a question about this since, after reading all of this I am extremely confused??? My brother bought plans and I am willing to try it on my truck, 02 duramax, so will it work any bit, I was assuming 15% increase. It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure. I don't see youtube videos on boroughs using it by the way.

Yes it will work and will be alot greater than 15%, I'm not going to explain myself anymore but check out http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/ also look up all the info for smacks booster. Do you have a tuner already?

[dekocards90]

PPE i get average 21 mpg on fuel economy mode, that's with an intake and straight pipe exhaust too, what can I get with that and a generator, If I can get 30 ill $h!t my pants, I like smacks booster better I wasn't fond of the glass jar design, it doesn't seem like you get a lot of gas.

[diesel133]

Ya or check out dry cells they're more expensive but you'll get your money back just as quick and since everyone friggin takes it as a joke every time I post mileage results I'll just tell you get the toilet paper ready. Check out eBay for the deals.

[Pocket]

OK i specifically joined this site to ask a question about this since, after reading all of this I am extremely confused??? My brother bought plans and I am willing to try it on my truck, 02 duramax, so will it work any bit, I was assuming 15% increase. It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure. I don't see youtube videos on boroughs using it by the way.
You won't get anywhere close to 15% increase with HHO. It has been proven and verified by factual scientific study that HHO generators are a waste of time on vehicles.

No one should ever buy plans for an HHO generator either. It's nothing more than simple electrolysis. Electrolysis has been around for what seems like forever. Hell, I even made an HHO generator in my high school chemistry class. The information is well known and well documented... and above all... FREE.

In addition, look up polar covalent bonding and you'll understand how much energy it takes to separate hydrogen and oxygen bonds, how much energy is lost in the process, how little is produced, and why it's useless in a vehicle.

Every single HHO kit, information packet, or instructions that are sold are all a scam. Period. These companies try to promote the latest and greatest "invention", but they are all the same exact process. They continue to claim that they have a secret catalyst, or a new rod plating technology, or a special electrical modulator, etc. Again, all of this has been around for decades, and it's nothing new. In addition, you're still producing only a few measly liters of HHO per MINUTE. Your engine will gulp down that much air in a SECOND. Think of a dilution factor in the range of 10,000:1, and you'll see why you won't get any improvement with HHO.

Oh, and diesel133 has no clue as to what he's talking about when it comes to HHO. Here's an example:
HHO is 3 times more potent than gasoline, and physics explains the law of conservation of energy, " you can not get more energy out of what you put into it" so how does this work?
HHO is 3 times more potent than gasoline? Really? Hmmmm

Gasoline = 30735.81 BTU/L
HHO = 9.54 BTU/L (at atmospheric pressure, same as what's produced on an HHO generator)

Gee, does that look like HHO is 3 times more potent than gasoline? :hehe:


And the whole "conservation of energy" is piss poor and misguided application of physics. It's a common trick that HHO promoters use. They try to validate their claims with "scientific equations" that are simply either not true, or not applicable and thus misconstrued (just like the link that he posted... the information there is laughable at best). Again, look up covalent bonding, and you'll see that there is a measured amount of energy it takes to break hydrogen and oxygen bonds. In addition, you'll find out that it's not 100% efficient. As a matter of fact, you spend more electricity to break the bonds than what you get back in actual useable energy. So in the end, you get a net loss, rather than a gain. The best HHO kits out there produce up to a max of 3 liters per minute of HHO. Since we can clearly see the amount of BTUs that HHO has, we can understand quickly why HHO has very little to no effect.

Oh, and this had me laughing too:
The hho gas actually burns hydrocarbons from your engine, lowers egt's, completes the burn, and runs quieter.
No, HHO gas does NOT have those properties. Earlier you mentioned that to run HHO, you must lean out the fuel. This is true, but why? The reason is that as the fuel mixture becomes leaner (especially true with gasoline), the burn rate slows down. This is how you create hot spots on a gas engine and burn it up. Supplementing hydrogen into the mix increases the burn rate back to normal levels.

However, here are the problems... and it's something that no HHO promoter will tell you.... In order to even start to see a benefit from hydrogen, you must be at least 18:1 AFR on a gas engine (normally at 14.7:1), and to run optimally, you should be at about 21:1 AFR (insanely lean). Now, to make up for the lean condition, you need an adequate supply of hydrogen. Well, with the best HHO kits making at most 3 liters per minute, you are seriously lacking the volume of hydrogen needed to make up for the lean condition. Instead, you need an onboard tank of pure compressed hydrogen pumping in enough volume to make up for the difference, but this is not what an HHO kit is all about. So the end result is... no mileage gains from HHO. Instead, you'll increase mileage simply from a lean condition, but with something like a gasoline engine, you'll burn it up faster. For a diesel application, our engines gulp in much much much more air than a gas engine, so HHO is even further diluted, and thus becomes even more useless.

Seriously, if you want to experiment with HHO, do not buy plans, do not buy a kit, don't fall for scams. Your money should only go to Home Depot for parts, and to your local water department for your source of water to run it. Don't be surprised when nothing happens. In fact, I have a nice little experiment for any HHO user to try, and it specifically applies to diesel engines (since they have less fuel management sensors):

Hook up an HHO generator to an on/off switch accessible inside the cab (preferably where the driver can easily reach it). Find a nice long stretch of flat road. Do not use the cruise control, but instead maintain a steady speed with your foot on the accelerator pedal comfortably where it won't move. Once a steady speed is maintained, flip the switch and turn on the HHO generator. If it actually works, you should pick up speed without pushing any further on the accelerator.

This works for diesels because they don't care what the oxygen content of the air is, nor do they even monitor the air/fuel ratio. So there's no sensors to trick, nothing to do whatsoever. It's a simple and straightforward experiment.

[dekocards90]

Ok I'm even more not wanting to try it now because of what you told me, however I found out about this from seeing it on CNN twice, but my brother said if it doesn't work he'll buy it off of me and the parts for it I am getting from home depot, the link diesel133 posted actually consists of parts from home depot / lowes, and I joined HHOforums.com and it just makes sense of how and before I explain I want to say I'm not arguing but this is what I was told.

Only 33% of fuel in a gasoline engine is burned in the chamber, the hho being "potent" more than gasoline is what I'm assuming it burns faster and hotter but turns to steam thus cooling the engine down? If a generator runs 12 volts at 12 amps that's 144 watts which is 1/5 of a hp, if 1/5 of a hp is enough to complete the burn in the combustion chamber then it seems that you would get increase in power and I'm assuming fuel economy. However on a diesel 75% is burned in the combustion chamber so I'd like to see how'd that turn out. From being on hhoforums.com it made a lot of sense the way they explain it so I might try it for the simple fact my brother will buy it back if it doesn't work. I know a lot of people on here say it doesn't work and prove it by science but yet people are proving how it works by using science as well. I think I'm just going to buy a good kit off of eBay and will keep updated on how it works.

[Pocket]

Ok I'm even more not wanting to try it now because of what you told me, however I found out about this from seeing it on CNN twice, but my brother said if it doesn't work he'll buy it off of me and the parts for it I am getting from home depot, the link diesel133 posted actually consists of parts from home depot / lowes, and I joined HHOforums.com and it just makes sense of how and before I explain I want to say I'm not arguing but this is what I was told.
Sure you can try it if you want. It's not going to hurt a diesel. After all, it really doesn't do much to begin with.

Only 33% of fuel in a gasoline engine is burned in the chamber, the hho being "potent" more than gasoline is what I'm assuming it burns faster and hotter but turns to steam thus cooling the engine down?
No, those are the myths that HHO vendors throw at you. A gas engine doesn't burn 33% of the fuel, that's a ridiculously low number that scammers throw out. Rather, gas engines burn almost 100%, nearly all the fuel. What they are confusing you with is "thermal efficiency". Thermal efficiency is the percentage of energy taken from the combustion event and converted into mechanical work. On a gas engine, thermal efficiency is about 30-40%. The rest is waste energy expelled out the exhaust or into the coolant system. Further energy losses occur with mechanical losses (a gas engine is typically 95% mechanically efficient or only a 5% loss - this is crank shaft movement losses, camshaft, etc), accessories (air conditioning, alternator, water pump, etc, about 2-3%), as well as driveline losses (about 18%). Since gas engines burn nearly 100% of the fuel in the combustion chamber, increasing that burn by only a fraction of a percentage with HHO (if you are lucky) will have a nearly net zero effect on the overall thermal, driveline, accessories, and mechanical efficiency of a motor. This is proven physics.

Hydrogen does not help burn more gasoline, doesn't make it burn hotter, doesn't cool the engine down, doesn't clean out the carbon, etc. Again those are just bogus claims that HHO vendors use to attract people into their scams.

To use HHO (or just hydrogen for that matter) on a gas engine, you must run it lean, otherwise the hydrogen doesn't do anything, or at the most you just end up with a rich condition. You must run the engine lean, and for whatever amount of gasoline you pull out, you must replace it with an equal amount of hydrogen. Of course, HHO kits cannot produce enough hydrogen to make up for the difference in gasoline removed, so these kits don't work. Sure you can increase mileage by pulling out fuel and leaning the motor out, but if you aren't replacing it with hydrogen, then the fuel burns slower, it creates hot spots, and you melt a hole in a piston. If you supplement enough hydrogen, then the gasoline will go back to it's normal burn rate, and the engine runs like it should. Of course, you don't want to drive around with a huge pressurized hydrogen tank in your car... because that's what it would take to supply enough hydrogen since an HHO kit can't do it. Now what happens if you get into a wreck? Plenty of car companies trying to make fuel cell cars are battling with that very issue right now... storing hydrogen safely.

If a generator runs 12 volts at 12 amps that's 144 watts which is 1/5 of a hp, if 1/5 of a hp is enough to complete the burn in the combustion chamber then it seems that you would get increase in power and I'm assuming fuel economy.
Again, hydrogen doesn't "complete the burn" for fuel. That's not how it works.

However on a diesel 75% is burned in the combustion chamber so I'd like to see how'd that turn out.
Just like the gasoline engines, you are getting false information about diesels from the HHO scammers. Gas engines run at 30-40% thermal efficiency, where diesels run 40-50% thermal efficiency. Diesel fuel also has a higher energy content. On the flip side, a gas engine will usually have a more complete burn than a diesel. Think of that black soot that comes out the tailpipe... that's fuel that hasn't been completely burned. So although a diesel doesn't burn fuel as complete as a gas engine, the increase in thermal efficiency combined with the higher energy content of fuel make the diesel a more efficient engine.

Of course, HHO doesn't help burn the fuel better. In the case of a diesel, you have a much larger volume of air being drawn in than compared to a gas engine, so the HHO is far more diluted, and there isn't enough to make a difference in combustion.

being on hhoforums.com it made a lot of sense the way they explain it so I might try it for the simple fact my brother will buy it back if it doesn't work. I know a lot of people on here say it doesn't work and prove it by science but yet people are proving how it works by using science as well. I think I'm just going to buy a good kit off of eBay and will keep updated on how it works.
Well, good luck with it. If you truly want to test mileage, here's how you do it.

1) Track fuel mileage over a minimum of 4 tanks, and take the average (4 tanks without HHO, 4 tanks with HHO). That is your fuel mileage. Always calculate fuel mileage by hand.
2) Try to drive the same or similar routes every time.
3) Do not alter your normal driving style. This is a big one, since most people when they add a "mileage enhancer", they tend to go lighter on the throttle, and end up with a false improvement in mileage. This is the placebo effect.
4) Always fill up the fuel to the filler neck. That way you know that you are getting the exact same amount of fuel every time at every fillup. Don't fill the tube with foam, continue to dribble in until you get fuel showing at the filler neck.

Tracking fuel mileage the proper way will give you the true results of any modification.

[dekocards90]

Well even thought you are making a whole lotta sense the fact my brother will buy it off of me is why I'm trying it haha, I ordered today off of eBay and after shipping it was $375 and it comes with everything I need. Fuel mileage wise I always calculate my mpg by hand and its always around 21 and my computer is right on with the hand calculation too. That is with my econo mode on too, with out its about 19 and this is city driving. But another question, even though it's not a lot of gas how come they claim there's a noticeable power increase equivalent to that of putting on a cold air intake, the reason they say is because its already a gas going in and not a liquid?

[diesel133]

Did you get the 8" x 8" dry cell with bubbler and wiring like I sent you?

[dekocards90]

Yes, and I picked the 3-5 business day shipping it should be here by Monday or Tuesday I live close to the shipper and should have it installed before next weekend.

[Pocket]

Well even thought you are making a whole lotta sense the fact my brother will buy it off of me is why I'm trying it haha, I ordered today off of eBay and after shipping it was $375 and it comes with everything I need. Fuel mileage wise I always calculate my mpg by hand and its always around 21 and my computer is right on with the hand calculation too. That is with my econo mode on too, with out its about 19 and this is city driving. But another question, even though it's not a lot of gas how come they claim there's a noticeable power increase equivalent to that of putting on a cold air intake, the reason they say is because its already a gas going in and not a liquid?

$375!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!! :gag::gag::gag: If you're going to try HHO, just make your own kit for less than $30. Buying kits like this only brings more money to the scammers.

And HHO supplier claim what they want. Many still claim you can double or triple your mileage, which simply isn't true and is NEVER duplicated in any valid test.

[dekocards90]

Yes I know and I got screwed because it comes with an "EFIE" which controls the O2 sensor but I'm just going to sell it separately, It consists of 15 316L 20 gauge stainless steel plates 8"x8" which I know isn't cheap, the gaskets for them has to be a waste because I found out it's shower pan lining. The bubbler is a $9 universal washer fluid reservoir, all the wires, relays, switches, tubing, and parts adds up to about $50. I'd say it costs them a little over $250 including that efie which I won't need. I did get the tracking number and it was shipped today ;) the feedback from his eBay customers all say it works, there's just too many people saying it works who are not out there being paid too, or promoting it but just saying they have it and works so I'm giving it a shot plus my brother will buy it off of me and use it to weld. I'm actually more prepared to see this thing not work haha but who knows, not trying to be cocky here but did you ever see it in person or try it pocket?

[Pocket]

not trying to be cocky here but did you ever see it in person or try it pocket?

I've built an HHO generator in high school years and years ago. Got it to sustain a flame, so I know how much hydrogen is actually produced, which isn't much (burns with less intensity than most candles). Technology hasn't changed since then either. Electrolysis is still the same, no matter how many plates you add, or what kind of catalyst you think works best. In the end, it ALWAYS comes down to amps.... and you simply don't have enough with an automotive circuit limiting you to 15-30 amps.

I've never run it on any of my vehicles because I know exactly what would happen..... nothing, so I don't feel like wasting my time. There is a ton of information out there about the real effects, real testing, and results of HHO. I've done a lot of research on the subject in the past, and I've found factual testing. It's just hard to find because there's so many scammer sites out there promoting their products, and it all gets cluttered. But you have Popular Science, the Federal Trade Commission, Consumer Reports, etc all coming down hard on HHO kits. Why? Because in every test, they could never come remotely close to meeting the claims of the people selling these kits.

If HHO really provided such a huge increase in fuel mileage as these scammers claim, it would be an instant success, and much more popular than any other modification on the market. Facts are.... it's not very popular at all, because it doesn't work. It's only being perpetuated by the very people trying to rip off others. Visit the HHO websites... not a single one of them has any actual 3rd party ISO or ASTM or SAE testing results. Not one. That says a lot, especially for something that's supposed to improve mileage so much.

[dekocards90]

I see and that does stur a wonder, I'm still going to try it for the hell of it, I have a high school physics and chemistry knowledge, I did good in those classes as they were my interest but both parties are making sense out of what they're saying so I honestly don't know what to expect, like I noticed earlier, I saw on CNN of a guy who actually bought a 6 car garage and makes and installs them for a living and I don't think he'd be in business if it didn't work. I also saw a couple different news clips of boroughs using them and a school district in Canada who has them on their school busses. They seemed like valid clips and the one I saw on CNN was actually on tv not off youtube or any other one.

[dekocards90]

It came in today :clap: I don't have time today but I will install it tomorrow first thing and see how we go from there.

[dekocards90]

Well I have some good news for some and some bad news for others? But no one has responded to this post in a while so is everyone still involved?

[diesel133]

Let's hear????????????:cheer:

[dekocards90]

As soon as I started the engine I noticed it was significantly quieter and the throttle response is by far greater from when you go from stalk to a banks cold air intake ;) :woohoo:

[diesel133]

Awesome, how was installation and whats the fuel economy?

[dekocards90]

It took longer than I thought but a member on hhoforums.com told me where to put everything before I even got it which helped dramatically, it's hooked up to a relay too so it only runs when the engine is running but I can still shut it off if I need to. As for fuel economy I hooked up my buddy's edje monitor so it tells me my mpg, at this time I will not say it for the purpose I only drove 80 miles and want to test it the real way. I don't want to go by the monitor because I did a mix of hwy and city and I kept jumping through power levels to see how it reacted, after 80 miles it did say how much fuel I used. If I get what the monitor says out of 5 tanks of fuel I will $h!t my pants, and pocket.....I'm not downing you at all but as for now I am having success but we'll let time do its job.

[jvencius]

If I get what the monitor says out of 5 tanks of fuel I will $h!t my pants, and pocket.....I'm not downing you at all but as for now I am having success but we'll let time do its job.

:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

[dekocards90]

I am probably getting my hopes up for something that won't work haha

[MCummings]

bump

[diesel133]

Any new updates....

[dekocards90]

Umm...yes but I am going to wait another tank before I say what I am getting! As for non-believers throwing out science to back it up there's got to be one thing missing.....it's working (so far) and it's a big difference, it's not different driving habits or leaning out fuel, it's too much of a big difference and I know it's the hho, I don't know if it's increasing thermal efficiency or what but it's working. I will be doing filling my tank again on Saturday, and in two weeks will be towing my boat so I can give you towing mpg as well.

[jvencius]

... As for non-believers throwing out science to back it up there's got to be one thing missing.....it's working (so far) and it's a big difference...


And people wonder why I drink...:bang:doh:

[Turbo Performance]

Have you hand calculated any of these gains? Or are you going solely off the edge you just recently installed? After reading Pocket's posts, I don't see how this could possibly be a big gain. I also agree with him that if it was such an awesome upgrade it would be much more mainstream than it is. $.02

[dekocards90]

I only had the edge on that day to see what it said, I have PPE, I hand calculated and tomorrow will be my second tank hand calculated. I've hand calculated almost every tank full since I had the truck. As for pockets science info I believe every part of it because its not an opinion its all the facts and laws he's providing. But I think there's still one thing missing because it's working, I know the laws of physics and chemistry and why its not "supposed to work" I have a theory but want 5 tank fulls to see how good that theory is. The only reason why I tried is because I saw it on TV so many times and my brother paid for it hahahahaha. But I won't be fully satisfied until I reach my 5th tank-full and it reads what I'm getting now.

[Turbo Performance]

I only had the edge on that day to see what it said, I have PPE, I hand calculated and tomorrow will be my second tank hand calculated. I've hand calculated almost every tank full since I had the truck. As for pockets science info I believe every part of it because its not an opinion its all the facts and laws he's providing. But I think there's still one thing missing because it's working, I know the laws of physics and chemistry and why its not "supposed to work" I have a theory but want 5 tank fulls to see how good that theory is. The only reason why I tried is because I saw it on TV so many times and my brother paid for it hahahahaha. But I won't be fully satisfied until I reach my 5th tank-full and it reads what I'm getting now.

Cool, thanks for clarifying. I'm curious what gain you'll see after your 5th tank...

[dekocards90]

Well I filled up again Saturday and I have the same gain as the 1st tank. This is not highway driving, it's a lot of stop-n-go but increase is dramatic. For those wondering I fill it until the click, set the odometer to 0, drive....fill it up til it clicks, divide the miles by gallons.

[Big Blue24]

Filling up till it "clicks" is not an accurate way to fill up. You need to fill up till you can see fuel in the filler neck. When I'm trying to be really precise, I shake the bed a little when it starts getting full and fill up till the fuel reaches the vent in the filler neck a few inches below spilling.

[dekocards90]

No, because that goes above the sensor or what ever is in the tank, I used to do it that way but found its inaccurate.

[dekocards90]

I forgot to mention my third tank right now is still accurate, I will either be filling it up tomorrow night or Saturday morning. For a heads up I have a 26 gallon tank and always fill around 20-22 gallons per fill.

[Turbo Performance]

No, because that goes above the sensor or what ever is in the tank, I used to do it that way but found its inaccurate.

How can it be inaccurate if you're filling it to the same point in the filler neck each time? He was probably getting at the point that each nozzle doesn't click off at the same time, so you don't know for sure you're getting the same amount of fuel each time. It has nothing to do with it being above the fuel level sensor.

[dekocards90]

Because you're tank can be reading 100% full for a gallon or two. I am thinking about purchasing the scan gauge, because it gives you a lot of precise information of your mpg, and how much fuel per minute and how much % full your tank is.

[Pocket]

Turbo Performance is absolutely right. In order to ACCURATELY HAND CALCULATE mileage, you must fill it with fuel to the filler neck. By not doing this, you have completely defeated the purpose of hand calculating your mileage.

No, because that goes above the sensor or what ever is in the tank, I used to do it that way but found its inaccurate.
Sorry, but you've got it wrong. With this statement, you just proved that your display is inaccurate.

You have already mentioned that you run with a tuner on your truck in econo mode. Any time you modify a vehicle, diesel or gas, any sensors/scanners/gauges you try to use to calculate mileage can no longer be considered reliable. The reason is that modifications change how the PCM will calculate engine load vs throttle position. Since it's no longer stock (and the PCM requires stock calibrations to calculate mileage), then they can no longer be considered accurate. Even in stock form, the electronic mileage calculations are not always correct. They are simply a lazy man's guide, to give you a close estimate of mileage, but not an accurate representation.

Again, you mentioned that your display is accurate with your hand calculations. However, since you don't properly fill up all the way, you've force your hand calculations to be consistent with an electronic display. THIS IS THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT! If you fill with fuel all the way to the filler neck, run it empty, then hand calculate mileage, and it's different than your display... IT MEANS THE DISPLAY IS INACCURATE. As I already mentioned, you've already proved to us that your display is inaccurate, since you are getting different readings than what you hand calculate when you fill up to the filler neck.

Why must you fill up with fuel to the filler neck? Simple, the issue is foam. As you fill a diesel tank up, the fuel foams up. What happens is the foam reaches the filler neck, and automatically clicks off the pump. You might think the tank is full, but it isn't. Depending on the tank configuration and the amount of foam, you could still add anywhere between a 1/2 gallon to 8 gallons worth of fuel. Problem is, you don't know how much foam is in there at each fillup, so your calculations will never be based on the same amount of fuel in the tank. The ONLY way to be certain is to fill up with fuel, not foam, to the filler neck. That is how you guarantee that you are calculating fuel mileage from the exact same quantity of fuel.

Start over on your mileage calculations, and fill up with fuel to the filler neck. Otherwise, you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to reporting your mileage results with hydrogen.

[Pocket]

Because you're tank can be reading 100% full for a gallon or two.
Who cares?


Again, the point of hand calculating mileage correctly is to eliminate gauge inaccuracies. If your gauge can't read the last 2 gallons of fuel in the tank, it means the gauge is wrong.


Take for example my truck, it is "rated" by Ford with a 29 gallon tank. If I run it completely empty, and then fill it up with fuel all the way to the filler neck, I can exceed 32 gallons on a fillup. By doing this, I can drive well over 100 miles with the gauge still reading full. What does that tell you about the inaccuracy of my fuel gauge?

Also, I run a custom tuned chip on my truck. The mileage display always shows my fuel mileage to be much higher than what it actually is. The best "hand calculated mileage" I have ever found has been 18 mpgs. My overhead display has hit well into the 30's on numerous occasions. Again, hand calculated mileage by filling up with fuel to the filler neck is the ONLY way to accurately find out your MPG's. Period.

[Turbo Performance]

You could potentially show a big MPG difference (+ or-) just by the way you fill your tank and calculate mileage. Fill it until the nozzle clicks, drive until empty, fill it to the neck and mileage is "down". Vice versa and mileage is "up."

Either way, the overhead lie-o-meter is not the way to calculate mileage in any case.

[Burner]

I agree about how to "fill to the neck" but after 5-6 tanks of fuel we'll see the difference. It might not be 'spot-on' but it should be close. If the "gas" is really doing the trick and the mileage has improved that much we'll know by the numbers. Numbers being where the odometer started, it's current point and the total fuel purchased (not burned) so far. We ALL drive differently and we all know in "mileage tests" that knowingly or not the tester will squeeze a little more out of it.

Deck (?) What was your mileage before the test, stock? What was the mileage after the tuner, and what brand? What is the current "guesstimated" AVG MPG?

[Pocket]

I agree about how to "fill to the neck" but after 5-6 tanks of fuel we'll see the difference. It might not be 'spot-on' but it should be close. If the "gas" is really doing the trick and the mileage has improved that much we'll know by the numbers. Numbers being where the odometer started, it's current point and the total fuel purchased (not burned) so far. We ALL drive differently and we all know in "mileage tests" that knowingly or not the tester will squeeze a little more out of it.

Deck (?) What was your mileage before the test, stock? What was the mileage after the tuner, and what brand? What is the current "guesstimated" AVG MPG?
Can it be close? Maybe, but it can also be fairly far off too.

Here's the problem, he is trying to prove mileage on a mod that his highly doubted by most people (myself included). If he really wants to prove to us that this mod works, he needs to track mileage correctly. Otherwise, very few people will be willing to accept his results.

Sorry, but that's how it works in real life.

[dekocards90]

How about I fill a 5 gallon container of diesel, and let my truck run bone empty, put it in so I can go to a gas station and fill it to the neck and actually record how many miles I go and how many gallons I put in from now on. Even before I put the generator on I used to fill it to the click, I read on multiple web sites that the pressure builds up within in the tank and that what causes the "click" how ever the pressure builds up around 26 gallons in my case. How difficult will it be to get a 5 gallon container and hook it up to my fuel line so I can actually drive and run out of fuel.

[Pocket]

What pressure? Tanks have vent tubes that take care of that problem.

[Burner]

Well, you really can't do that 5 gallon thing. Your pick-up tube might not be in the best place as you run out of fuel. Think about this... If you fill a glass with very cold ice and add fresh coke what happens? You will get a lot of foam, right? Do you wait for the foam to drop down or do you just leave with 3/4 full glass? Diesel is about the same way. The best thing you could do is fill the tank 110%. Fill it until the neck is full and then shake the truck and fill it again. You want ALL of the air out you can get out. Run that tank 3/4 down or so and try get back to that exact same pump and fill it again, the exact same way. Do this 4-5 times and then you'll know better of what your mileage is.

So, what do you "think" you have bettered so far in MPG? It's ok to guess, it's just a guess.

[millco]

First off: I'm not picking on any of you; but, some of what all of you have said is correct..
Mileage is not hard to calculate! But to get very accurate measurements you have to use what the pump says it dispensed. Vehicle fuel gauges just aren't that accurate. The trip computer usually isn't accurate either. Mine wasn't accurate stock for that matter. It is always higher than reality. Sometimes it is only 2 MPG high... Other times it can be more than 5 MPG high... All I'm saying is don't trust them! Really all a vehicle gauge (Of any kind) is good for is to show you a change in operating conditions. If you notice that when the fuel gauge reaches 1/4 of a tank it always takes you 28 gallons to fill back up; then you have a close 'guess' as to how much is left in there. If you think you can be sure that there will definitely be a certain amount of fuel left in there I predict you will be one of the people we see walking along the road with a little red can in hand.
If you are going to be accurate in figuring your mileage by hand, you do have to fill up to the same point each fill up. On my Dodge I can actually get fuel standing in the fill pipe in the same place each time (Thanks to relocating the vent; this happens much faster now!). On my little ricer, I can't get the fuel up to where I can see it, so I have to do a few 'clicks' and hope for the best. This does bring up a point you might have missed. If a log is kept of each fill up, you can average over several fill-ups. Even his method of filling until the first click will yield fairly accurate results over many fill-ups. As long as you keep in mind that from one tank to the next the differences can be several MPG on paper and in reality the vehicle might have gotten the same mileage. The difference being in not filling the tank to the same level each time. I find that most vehicles will do pretty consistent mileage as long as something hasn't changed. Changes can come from different operating conditions or from changes in the vehicle itself. This is why I do log every tank faithfully. If I see an un-warranted drop, I can look for a problem.
If you want to get down to it: Even the odometer should be checked for accuracy. Some people who claim very high mileage figures probably have an error introduced into their calculations somewhere. If you want to see how accurate your odometer is: check it on a long trip on the freeway. Write down the odometer reading and the mile post near the beginning of your trip. Hopefully you can go at least 100 miles and write down these numbers again. A short 5 mile "Speedometer Check Station" is only good to check your speed (You can check your speed anywhere at any time with a stop watch! If you want to know how, just ask!)!
Anyway, I would be willing to accept his figures over many tanks. If they show a close average from tank to tank (In the same operating conditions) then they are pretty close.

Ok, now: How much of a change are we looking at? How much of a difference in mileage does water injection make? I was under the impression that water injection would give you about 1 or 2 MPG increase....

Oh, and Deko: You do not have to run your tank out to figure your mileage!! All the mileage calculation is the gallons you used for how many miles you traveled! You can fill up at any time you like! All that matters in accurate mileage calculations is that you fill up to the same level from tank to tank and that you write down the odometer at each fill-up. You can use the trip odometer as long as you reset it each time or subtract the last reading from what it shows at the current fill-up. Since mistakes do happen, I always record both odometer and trip odometer and then reset the trip for the next tank. It is easy to make an Excel spreed sheet to enter these values into that will even do the calculations for you! I'll gladly share the one I have with anyone that would want it!!

Really keeping track of your mileage is only good for two things: Bragging rights with the fellow on the opposite side of the pump (Or computer screen!) and to keep track of how well your vehicle is running. Like I said earlier: it can help you spot a problem as soon as it happens. I also use it as an indication of the condition of tune up and what not.
My darn Dodge Mega has always gotten 14 to 15 since new. No matter what I tried it would not do better (This was it's 'best' . . . ). I feel real fortunate as of late to have gotten it up to 18 +. Now maybe I can move on to 'hyper' mileage!!

[millco]

I had a lot of thoughts and I didn't finish some of them..... So:

What I was asking about the water injection for was the fact that I too am skeptical about HHO. Oh don't get me wrong! I want it to work! And I do wish you the best with it too! (I see a lot of problems with it too. Has anyone mentioned the fact that you might want to shut it off well before you shut off the engine? I can see the moisture in the intake area causing a lot of corrosion and rust if it isn't 'aired' out before shut down. The other thing I don't hear any discussion on is about the electrolyte used in the water. Most are highly corrosive. Is / can that cause any problems in the intake of the engine over time? Like I said: I'm all for this working. If it does work well then these other questions need to be answered. It would not set well with most of us to even double our mileage if it totaled the engine in 50,k or 100,k miles!)
I understand the science and what not and I have to wonder if these systems are not just acting somewhat like a water injection system. That is why I asked how much of a benefit is seen from water injection. And what is your guesstimate of how much this HHO system is helping your mileage. If it is a lot more than what most see from water injection, then there must be something to this.

I also hope I didn't 'over' explain how to calculate your mileage. It really is quite simple! Deko, even if you have been doing it wrong (You have at least been in-accurate in using the when it clicks off method), you don't need to start all over. You could go tomorrow and fill up all the way. Write down the mileage and from now on always fill all the way to the top. Each tank is just that. Each time you write down the mileage (from the odometer) and then divide with how many gallons you just put in! In fact, you don't 'have' to fill-up each time. If you are ever at a station that is clearly robbing you, just put in enough to make it to a 'nice' one. Say you put in 10 gallons. All you do is fill up when you can, then write down the miles and simply add in the gallons from the partial fill. Then you are right back to your usual fill-ups and calculations!

Dan

[dekocards90]

Well tonight is my third fill up and I'm going to fill up the same way. My increase in mpg is so out there that there's no way on Gods green Earth that it was due to my tuning, lighter on pedal, going down hill...(you have to go up hill before down), filling up wrong. Also, I used my tuner to recalirate my tires. I have it set up to a relay and switch so that it only runs if my engine is running but I can shut it off as well, there's also a circuit breaker in case it runs over 20 amps. As for electrolyte I use lye because baking soda and salt can and will eat away at your stainless steel, the hho is flowed to the bottom of a container called a "bubbler" so the moister and lye, if any, is taken out. My tubing from the bubbler to air intake is still clear. Also, hho is already in a gas state, not a liquid, when entering the engine. As for creating enough to "blow up" my engine it took about 20 seconds to fill up a balloon. I am assuming that the hho is increasing the thermal efficiency of my engine and as for egt's they dropped a little and the engine is quieter. I have a 26 gallon tank and each fill-up with HHO has been over 700 miles. I use about 20-22 gallons. I know that statement right there is gonna cause a lot of arguments and people thinking I fell off the lolly pop truck but I have been video taping everything and it will be on youtube after my 5th tank and after that I don't care what people tell me or say to me because to get more power, less egt's and a hell lot more of mpg is ok with me :evil

[MCummings]

the hho is flowed to the bottom of a container called a "bubbler" so the moister and lye, if any, is taken out

I've stayed out of this thread, but, using a bubbler to remove moisture sounds iffy to me...

Merrick

[dekocards90]

You have too, it takes the lye out too and if a spark ever came back it would blow the lid off and not damage the generator. All it is is a universal anti-freeze container. It sits anywhere above the generator and the hho flows into the bottom nipple and out of top. It also feeds the generator because I purchased a dry cell.

[diesel133]

Deko, your mpg could and should be greater, is your tuner still on econo tune? Also, after being on Welcome to Water4Gas (http://www.water4gas.com) and reading all the information they give you which is where I started out in this hobby, I realized all the false information they give in order to buy their plans. As it does work the promoters are doing it to increase sales instead of getting the real facts on how it works. I believe your theory on thermal efficiency may be correct since hho does burn hotter and then turns into steam to help cool down after. Gasoline's burning temp is 536 F hho is 570 F, if hho is in its gas state when entering the engine, which it is, then maybe it will?

[dekocards90]

Yes, it's still on econo, but I'm more than piss happy with my increase now thank you :)

[dekocards90]

I found out some more info, the tuner on econo tune increases fuel pressure to keep the fuel more atomized and controls timing to where the fuel is injected as to relation of the cylinder position...increase timing, increase fuel pressure, add hho....increase mpg. So if you lean out the fuel, increase timing, fuel pressure, and add hho maybe I will get even better mpg, I might try that in the future.

[Burner]

If Ponder see this...... he'll faint. 22-23 gallons lasting 700 miles or better and without a "string" attached to the go pedal. LOL

[dekocards90]

If Ponder see this...... he'll faint. 22-23 gallons lasting 700 miles or better and without a "string" attached to the go pedal. LOL

That went over my head.... but yes as now "now" that's been what I'm getting.

[Racer9]

Just read the whole thread. I was considering doing it, but got convinced not to bother. Now I'm almost convinced to do it, again.
Decka, try turning it off and see what happens. If your mileage drops back to normal, then this system almost certainly works. I run about 350 on about 18 gallons of fuel, it would be unreal if I can double that.
There are always those who say it can't be done, and then there are those who do it.
I don't pretend to understand the science, I've heard the claims from both sides, but if I can build a system for $30-$40, and increase mileage, it's worth it. If it doesn't work, I'm not out too much.
Afterall, at one time science said man would never fly, the Earth was flat, man could not travel faster than 40mph, cars would never replace horses, etc............
I've been looking at WVO, propane/CNG, algae oil, and almost anything else that comes up.
If this HHO system is so cheap, and actually works, whats the downside?

[millco]

Ok,
You answered my question! Now you have my attention! You have been averaging going 700 miles and it takes about 23 gal to fill it back up so you can do it again? Is this correct?

I have some more questions for you: What did you set your tire size to with your programmer? Does it ask for RPM? And what did you input? (What I'm getting at there is I wonder if you have an accurate odometer reading. If you went an actual 500 miles instead of the indicated 700 your mileage would be much closer to what would be normal. It is still high at 22 MPG . . . But . . . . ) If you have verified that your odometer is indicating correctly then you truely have a great mpg maker there! (Only way I know how to do that is to run a stretch of freeway and keep track of the odometer readings and the mile posts.)

I would like to know how you made your system! I want to build one and try it out!! Sounds awesome!!

Hey, no one is picking on anyone when they try to point out a problem or fault in theory. We all have some mis-conceptions about something. Just remember no one can be right all the time or know everything. It's just too hard to know it all. But instead, keep the ideas coming and as we share back and forth we all will learn things from each other! Isn't that the way it is supposed to work?

[dekocards90]

My tires have been calibrated for 32.75" (they're 33's but when u measure its 32.75) since the last three years I had the truck. I had it calibrated this way before I was running hho and I was always checking my mpg then. It's not 700 miles on 23 gallons, the least I got was 704 miles on 20.3 gallons of fuel. When you do the math it is staggering numbers. A tank of fuel used to last 3-4 days now it's about 6-7 days so I know it's working. As for turning it off I do while I'm driving and I can feel the power drop immediately and pick right back up after I turn it on. I bought mine off of eBay, it's a 16 plate dry cell but I took a plate off and rearranged the + - n to a 15 plate -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- and I know it's working because I put about 700 miles on my truck a week and I'm only filling it up once a week now instead of 3 or 4 days.

[dekocards90]

I've been looking at WVO, propane/CNG, algae oil, and almost anything else that comes up.


I used to make biodiesel when diesel was $5 a gallon and it was worth it but it's too much of a pain in the @$$ now that it's $2.60 and I'm getting good mpg.

[dekocards90]

Another fill-up this morning.....still in mid 30's....

[Burner]

Another fill-up this morning.....still in mid 30's....

I hate you....:bang :doh:

[dekocards90]

I hate you....:bang :doh:

Come to PA and I will let you fill it up and drive it to the end...it's working....the only scientific explanation I can think of it's completing the burn and increasing thermal efficiency.:rockwoot:

[Racer9]

Where in PA?

[dekocards90]

Scranton, where every one thinks the show the office is from.

[MCummings]

I'd like to talk to Jim, is he there?

[Racer9]

Scranton, where every one thinks the show the office is from.

Bit of a drive for me. Can you tell me which system you bought? At least whether it was dry-cell or not. Been doing a lot of research, I like the dry-cell type and found one I like a lot.

[dekocards90]

8" x 8" dry cell, 15 plates, -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- about 3lpm at 12-15 amps. I purchased it on eBay with shipping cost me $375, it came with everything including brackets, wiring, and efie which I didn't need because diesels don't have O2 sensors, but I sold that for $50.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.pdf

There's another place you can get plans and build your own out of home depot parts.

[j-rod]

8" x 8" dry cell, 15 plates, -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- about 3lpm at 12-15 amps. I purchased it on eBay with shipping cost me $375, it came with everything including brackets, wiring, and efie which I didn't need because diesels don't have O2 sensors, but I sold that for $50.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.pdf

There's another place you can get plans and build your own out of home depot parts.

What truck is this currently installed on?

[dekocards90]

2002 chevy duramax

[j-rod]

So its in your brother's truck?

[Racer9]

Have you noticed it heating up?

[dekocards90]

No my brother paid for it, and the deal was if it works I give him the money, its working so it was the best $3XX I ever spent haha and no it doesn't over heat, having 6 neutrals means each plate gets 1.8 volts but only 1.4 is used to make hho, so .4 volts goes to heat. I'm not sure what the temp is, it's hot-to-the-touch after 2 hrs straight but not hot enough for a burn or anything or to melt anything.

[Burner]

What happens if you leave the key on? How is the system based? Does it start when in the run position or does it start once the truck is in gear? How quickly does the system react? Will it work for folks that drive 5-10 miles each way?

[dekocards90]

System kicks in immediately, the generator is hooked up to a relay which is hooked up to the fuel pump relay, so it is only on if the engine is running, it doesn't run on auxiliary but it does on idle. The idle is also much quieter and smoother. It does work for people who drive 5-10 miles each way. My uncle just built one and put it on his 1985 350ci dump truck and that's working great. He built it using that link I sent you but did the 15 plate design out of home depot parts and a pvc pipe. The engine was redone and already got good mpg for a dump truck but he can go 2nd gear up hill no problem, that's no load. If you're wondering on the dump truck the relay is hooked up to the solenoid on the plow.

[millco]

Is the link you speak of the one above? I'd love to get all the info I can from you on this! This may be what my truck needs to finally get some good mileage!! If you would rather us PM or email that is fine.. I only ask here so that you don't keep getting the same requests over and over in PM's. I think those pics and videos would be really popular here as well!! (hint, hint!!)

Guess it's time to make up a shopping list and start tinkering! (on yet another project!) (I need another like I need another hole in the head!)

[dekocards90]

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.pdf

This is not what I purchased, but its what you can build. And thank you about the pm, I'm not angry at all because most people sent me only 1 or 2 pm's but when I get 15 a day it starts to become old news haha. The pm's I don't mind is ones about information, if you're asking me if it works and what my mpg is well I am going to start ignoring those as I posted it enough times in this thread.

[millco]

So that model (In the link) is real similar to what you have? If I build the 'Smack' one then it should work just fine or is there some things I should change to get better results? Any pointers you can give / suggest would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,
Dan

[dekocards90]

Yes, it says you use 18 plates, and 1/4" bolt or something. I used 15 plates arranged -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- and they're spaced by 1/16" nylon washer. I do not have the smack I have a dry cell. The smack in the way I showed you should produce 1.5-1.8lpm. I'm producing 3lpm, I am putting the map sensor enhancer on my truck this weekend to lean out fuel more and see what my gains can be. I know from being in hho forums that people are claiming triple mpg on little 4 or 6 cyl cars and double is common too I've only seen 65% but I don't have a device to lean out fuel yet so I can believe in double but I'm not sure about triple.

[millco]

That sounds awesome! If you would give us all the info you can, it would be really appreciated! It seems strange that less plates would give more volume... Is it because of the closer spacing? But, anyway, do tell all the details you can and provide any other info you can get. Any pics, or other places we can go to get any info would be great too!

On your map sensor: a diesel runs differently than a gas engine. A gas one can be leaned out from what is ideal or from what it is at currently. Now a diesel runs completely opposite. At idle it is as lean as it's getting. It will never be able to be richer or leaner at that point. To make it richer would cause it to increase rpms. The higher the rpm and load the more fuel or richer it gets. Anytime you cut the fuel to a diesel it drops rpm and load it will carry...
Basically a gas engine is throttle or air controlled. A diesel is fuel controlled. It always gets all the air it can take in but it only gets the fuel it needs to perform it's current load / need. Hope that makes sense..... (I just have to wonder about what you were told about 'leaning' out your diesel to get better mileage.... A gas engine maybe; but a diesel doesn't run that way...)
Dan

[MCummings]

That sounds awesome! If you would give us all the info you can, it would be really appreciated! It seems strange that less plates would give more volume... Is it because of the closer spacing? But, anyway, do tell all the details you can and provide any other info you can get. Any pics, or other places we can go to get any info would be great too!

On your map sensor: a diesel runs differently than a gas engine. A gas one can be leaned out from what is ideal or from what it is at currently. Now a diesel runs completely opposite. At idle it is as lean as it's getting. It will never be able to be richer or leaner at that point. To make it richer would cause it to increase rpms. The higher the rpm and load the more fuel or richer it gets. Anytime you cut the fuel to a diesel it drops rpm and load it will carry...
Basically a gas engine is throttle or air controlled. A diesel is fuel controlled. It always gets all the air it can take in but it only gets the fuel it needs to perform it's current load / need. Hope that makes sense..... (I just have to wonder about what you were told about 'leaning' out your diesel to get better mileage.... A gas engine maybe; but a diesel doesn't run that way...)
Dan


Entire post, x2.

Now, if you can delay the map sensor so that it fuels up slower, that would help mileage. You could be jerky on the throttle, and still get the same results as somebody who is smooth on the throttle.

You aren't going to be able to lean out a diesel. At cruise, it is always running as lean as it can for the given load. Now, maybe bumping the timing will help it use the fuel more efficiently?

Merrick

[dekocards90]

My timing is bumped, and my fuel pressure is too. But the more voltage you add to a map sensor the more fuel it dumps in. This map sensor enhancer is just a potentiometer ( I don't know who's familiar with electronics here) but it decreases the voltage so less fuel goes in.

[MCummings]

My timing is bumped, and my fuel pressure is too. But the more voltage you add to a map sensor the more fuel it dumps in. This map sensor enhancer is just a potentiometer ( I don't know who's familiar with electronics here) but it decreases the voltage so less fuel goes in.

You'll feel a difference. in your case, I'm sure it will work, but you could get the same exact effect by putting a 2x4 under your throttle pedal, well, maybe a 1x2, :)

Merrick

[dekocards90]

Well I'll find out tonight because I got a huge power boost from this so if I lean out the fuel to have a stock hp feeling maybe I'll increase mpg.

[dekocards90]

Didn't get to put map sensor enhancer on until today but it works I can lean the fuel out enough to shut the truck off. I have it set at a point where there's no drag in the fuel delivery. The power feels like stock again so we'll see if I can get more mpg out of it. If it works and I want the power back it's just the turn of a knob.

[MCummings]

Didn't get to put map sensor enhancer on until today but it works I can lean the fuel out enough to shut the truck off. I have it set at a point where there's no drag in the fuel delivery. The power feels like stock again so we'll see if I can get more mpg out of it. If it works and I want the power back it's just the turn of a knob.

Is it based only off the MAP sensor? And this is on a Dodge?

Merrick

[dekocards90]

No, 02 duramax, and yes only the map sensor, on gas vehicles it goes by the O2 sensors, on carburated engines you set back the idle and increase fuel pressure, on 12 valves you can do a valet switch.

[MCummings]

Where does the potentiometer go? Between the ref and ground, or ref and 5v, or 5v and ground?

Merrick

[dekocards90]

There's 3 wires hook up to to the pot. One is ground, you cut the wire going from the map to the pcm and tie into that with the 2 other wires. Attaching two wires from the enhancer to each side of the wire from the map itself.

[dekocards90]

Map sensor enhancer definitely made a huge difference in fuel economy, it obviously decreased power due to leaning out the fuel but I get the power back with the turn of a knob. Don't have exact numbers for you and definitely won't for a while :clap: but I think I may just buy the scan gauge II because a lot of people I know are buying generators and making them and are having me give them a hand and you can tune them easier with the scan gauge on gas vehicles and that's mostly what I'll be working on.

[paulmillerplu]

Was wondering if you have gotten any reults for your mileage after the MAP change? Thinking of putting this or somethig like it on my H1.

[dekocards90]

Yes, I have been answering numerous pm's with new results because I don't want to start more arguments and controversy. PM me and I'll send you a good deal of info and results.

[MCummings]

I'll be real honest, I'm not sure how you can "kill" the engine by turning the map sensor voltage all the way down. Just doesn't compute in my head.


Merrick

[dekocards90]

The less voltage you send to the map sensor the less fuel it gets, you can lean out the fuel enough so the engine stops running because it won't get enough fuel. When I put it on I barely turned the knob on the enhancer and I felt a big difference.

[MCummings]

The less voltage you send to the map sensor the less fuel it gets, you can lean out the fuel enough so the engine stops running because it won't get enough fuel. When I put it on I barely turned the knob on the enhancer and I felt a big difference.

Can you make it rich it enough to bog it out, or shut it off also?

Merrick

[Burner]

Can you make it rich it enough to bog it out, or shut it off also?

Merrick


What you twalk'n bou't Willis! LOL

[SledPuller21]

Can you make it rich it enough to bog it out, or shut it off also?

Merrick

Basically what a smoke switch does, dont think it will kill it though.

[dekocards90]

Then would need a power source, you can probably add voltage using a 1.5v battery and make yourself a home-made smoke switch.

[dekocards90]

Well I guess no one isn't interested in this thread anymore but for those who participated, I went from learning nothing to having a successful installation. It's working great and I only wish I new about this last summer haha.

[Racer9]

I had asked on another forum about the hho system, and was talked out of even trying it. "Never work", "Can't make free fuel", and other naysayers.
But, now that you've tried it and proved it works, I'm in the process of buying one for myself. A fairly local guy sells them, and as soon as I get my rear diff back in, I'm going for it.
I had hoped to run it on the dyno today, but didn't get my truck finished in time. I'll run it this winter, get the mileage results and dyno it in the spring.
Thank you for being the tester.

[dekocards90]

You're quite welcome, and what kind of vehicle are you putting it on?

[Racer9]

My '96 Ram Cummins.

[dekocards90]

You have to do the valet switch for best results. I know ATS sells then

[bwdt]

Can you put up some pics of your installation?

[Racer9]

You have to do the valet switch for best results. I know ATS sells then

Why?
Wouldn't you need more air with the fuel and hho?

[dekocards90]

You want to lean out the fuel, if you're talking mpg. I personally don't know anyone yet who has one on a 12 valve. Everyone with a 12 valve I know runs biodiesel but just use waste oil, 5% gasoline and 10% kerosine.

[Racer9]

I generally drive like granny, and see very little boost, except when I need it, and then I must have it!
I don't like the collecting, storage, and filtering issues with WVO or waste motor oil, plus the impurities hassle. Plus, I can't afford a new fuel system if things don't go just right.
If I can gain 5-10 mpg with hho I'll be ecstatic. Then I might tweak it a little and add the pulse wave deal and see if it makes even more.
I'll be dissapointed if I don't see 5mpg.
I generally see about 19 all summer, and 15-16 winter.

[dekocards90]

I actually picked up 3 more mpg and it ran smoother, quieter, and smelt really good. But yes collecting and filtering WVO is a pain in the ass but it was worth it when fuel was $5 a gallon now once every 2 weeks I pour water in a container which takes 11 seconds. You should easily see 5-10 mpg if you have a setup similar to mine.

[MCummings]

What you twalk'n bou't Willis! LOL

He said, using the map sensor, he could lean out the engine until it died out, I wondered if he could richen it up until it died.


Basically what a smoke switch does, dont think it will kill it though.

A smoke switch does not richen up the engine. It fools the ECM into thinking there is more boost than there is, and fuels heavily without boost.

If you were to wire up a smoke switch in reverse, you'd get exactly the effect that dekocards got by running his potentiometer.

Merrick

[Pocket]

By the way dekocards90 and diesel133, I've figured out your little game.

Dekocards came into this forum (and specifically this thread) pretending to be new to the HHO game. He posted this on 8/25/09....

OK i specifically joined this site to ask a question about this since, after reading all of this I am extremely confused??? My brother bought plans and I am willing to try it on my truck, 02 duramax, so will it work any bit, I was assuming 15% increase. It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure. I don't see youtube videos on boroughs using it by the way.

So after a bit of searching, I found this posted on 4/6/09 on the Diesel Power Magazine forum:
I make, build, and install these on the side. I do about 2 or 3 vehicles a week. I have not done a diesel truck that gets less than 50mpg hwy with no load. Let me know if you're interested.
Converting a truck to Hydrogen Hybrid? - Diesel Power Forums at Diesel Power Magazine
(http://forums.dieselpowermag.com/70/7337206/biodiesel-alternative-fuels/converting-a-truck-to-hydrogen-hybrid/index.html)

Wow, interesting! So much for the story about buying plans and "trying" it out.

Found that dekocards90 is also a member of fuel-saver.org, and has been since 5/25/09: Fuel-Saver Forums - Profile of dekocards90 (http://www.fuel-saver.org/User-dekocards90)

Found diesel133 on the hhoforums.com: HHO Forums - Trying to facilitate the production of HHO for the common folk. - View Profile: diesel133 (http://www.hhoforums.com/member.php?u=6718)

This is nothing more than two people who joined the forums pretending to pass along results of HHO. It's a scam tactic they use to sell HHO kits.

Buyer beware.

[diesel133]

This is kenny...........

[diesel133]

I'm (Kenny) dekocards90 on those sites.....I made a username for Scott(dekocards90) on comp-d only, who didn't believe me on this and wanted to ask around, I latered joined comp-d and had to choose another name, why don't you ask the people who pm for pics and install help how they're doing..........ur just pissed it works and are looking for ways to prove it false

[Pocket]

I'm (Kenny) dekocards90 on those sites.....I made a username for Scott(dekocards90) on comp-d only, who didn't believe me on this and wanted to ask around, I latered joined comp-d and had to choose another name, why don't you ask the people who pm for pics and install help how they're doing..........ur just pissed it works and are looking for ways to prove it false
LOL, ok.

Thank you for proving my point. You two were collaborating the whole time. :clap:

[dekocards90]

You're not getting it are you, he made me a username because I didn't believe what he was telling me. Do you see us selling anything??? Or being affiliated with hho companies, I sold biodiesel to him and thats how I met him. But i dont what anyone thinks anymore because I'm not paying up the ass for fuel anymore :evil

[Pocket]

No, I don't believe you. I think you are a liar and a scammer. And it's very obvious.

You both join CompD at the same time, after having no prior affiliation with the site. If you were skeptical about HHO, why would you both join a random forum at the same time? If you already knew each other before-hand, why would a friend not take another friend's advice, but rather take advice about HHO from a new random forum they just joined, a forum that has nothing to do with HHO?

You both join and specifically start promoting HHO with your little back and forth "game".

OK i specifically joined this site to ask a question about this since, after reading all of this I am extremely confused??? My brother bought plans and I am willing to try it on my truck, 02 duramax, so will it work any bit, I was assuming 15% increase. It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure. I don't see youtube videos on boroughs using it by the way.

Yes it will work and will be alot greater than 15%, I'm not going to explain myself anymore but check out http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/ also look up all the info for smacks booster. Do you have a tuner already?

These post numbers just show more of your crap going back and forth:

Post #'s 36, 38, 39, 40, 45, 46, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 60, 61


So no, your little "story" doesn't add up, especially after reading those posts. You've now claimed that you knew each other prior, but from those posts, you both pretend you have no idea who the other is. You said you joined after hearing about HHO from diesel133, didn't believe him, and wanted to get advice from others. Instead, you were "taking advice" from diesel133 in this whole thread, making it sound like you two didn't know each other at all, and ignoring myself and others telling you HHO doesn't work. Face it, you were caught, and you're not fooling anyone anymore.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that you are one and the same person.

SO F*#K OFF, *****ES!!!!!!!!!

[TheNatural31]

No, I don't believe you. I think you are a liar and a scammer. And it's very obvious.

You both join CompD at the same time, after having no prior affiliation with the site. If you were skeptical about HHO, why would you both join a random forum at the same time? If you already knew each other before-hand, why would a friend not take another friend's advice, but rather take advice about HHO from a new random forum they just joined, a forum that has nothing to do with HHO?

You both join and specifically start promoting HHO with your little back and forth "game".





These post numbers just show more of your crap going back and forth:

Post #'s 36, 38, 39, 40, 45, 46, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 60, 61


So no, your little "story" doesn't add up, especially after reading those posts. You've now claimed that you knew each other prior, but from those posts, you both pretend you have no idea who the other is. You said you joined after hearing about HHO from diesel133, didn't believe him, and wanted to get advice from others. Instead, you were "taking advice" from diesel133 in this whole thread, making it sound like you two didn't know each other at all, and ignoring myself and others telling you HHO doesn't work. Face it, you were caught, and you're not fooling anyone anymore.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that you are one and the same person.

SO F*#K OFF, *****ES!!!!!!!!!


:clap: ............. :pop: ................ :Cheer:

[jvencius]

:clap: ............. :pop: ................ :Cheer:

x2--"HHO" is a pure, unadulterated bullchit SCAM and you've just been caught trying to pull it on here. Congrats Pocket--that was some outstanding work!

[MCummings]

I'm still totally not on board just for the fact of the MAP sensor BS. There is absolutely no way you can kill a modern computer controlled diesel engine (24v and up) by dropping the voltage at the map sensor. No way, not going to happen.

That's why I asked if he could richen up the motor to the point where it would shut off, because, if you can lean it out, you can richen it up.

It is impossible. If you lean out a diesel at idle, the RPM goes lower, and lower, until there is not enough fuel to keep the engine turning over. Even then, you aren't even leaning it out, because the A/F ratio stays the same.



Merrick

[Bustedknuckles]

:bow: Preach it brother Pocket. I know from experince those kits are bull****. :cheer:

[SledPuller21]

LOL hoes always be hating. I'm not totally sold either way...if PDI sells these kits how BS can they be? I guess they could be scamming folks, wouldnt be the first aftermarket company to do so, certainly wont be the last. I think I'll make a kit and try and find out for myself.

[rhino 660]

we tested one on a diesel gen and it made no diff at all we had the truck making the gas 16 lpm the gen was just running a 2k watt load (300watt light bulbs) not making the gas we had 200ml clear tube and a ruler and a stopwatch to test i was suprised because on his gas truck we do quite well. we just picked up a junk ass 6.5 turbo diesel and we are going to try out a $5k kit thats $5000 bucks the mf better get 200mpg for that price according to bob boyce hho or hydroxy does not work as well in diesels. we are going to test it with some of my biodiesel also

[Dave2011]

I have a friend who's dad made one for his jetta. His first design gained 6 mpg and now he is going to try to make a bigger one. I know this for a FACT. It did work on his gas jetta. I'm in high school and am going to try to make one for my 12v. Any plans on how to make one would be greatly appreciated.

[rhino 660]

Yes it does for a fact work on gas engines. But on diesels it is less than 1%
We got a 2hp gen up to 100% efficient

[Joesixpack]

Some folks just part way to easy with their money. More energy in than out period.

[Dave2011]

After talking to my buddy this morning it turns out that his quit working. Sounds like the PCM in his jetta found out what was going on. I guess it must not work as good as I thought. Maybe i'll look into cng now lol

[Pocket]

We got a 2hp gen up to 100% efficient

A 2 hp generator engine is much different.

There's plenty of videos on Youtube with lawnmower engines running on 100% HHO. But there's a problem. Absolutely none of those engines are actually powering the HHO generator itself. It's plugged into an alternate power source.

Running an engine on hydrogen is no secret, it has been done for years. Even NASA tested it on a standard big block V8. What people have the misconception about is they think they can make an HHO kit work in a vehicle, and power that kit with an alternator and expect amazing results.

Sorry, but real life doesn't work that way. HHO kits are a scam. Have been for years, and there's no new technology or secret that has changed that fact.