3rd gens... HP/TQ vs 1/4mile et's

[c-hawk]

I'm curious how much power it takes to run a given et with a 3rd gen truck...
I know there are a ton of variables, but to narrow it down, assume a quad cab, short bed, 4x4, auto truck (since these seem to be one of the most common setups).

How much hp to run a...
13.00 ?
12.50 ?
12.00 ?
11.50 ?

It seems to me the 3rd gens are incredibly slow for the hp and tq they make on a dyno. Why is this? Are they ridiculously heavy? Narrow or peaky powerbands? My 24 vp truck dynoed 611hp/1200tq on david's dynojet and ran consistent high 11's. This was a quad cab, sb, 4x4 auto weighing 7000lbs.

I'm serioulsy considering a 3rd gen but the performance numbers haven't really impressed me. Well, the dyno numbers have, but the track times haven't.

Thanks,

Chris

[edgerat]

COMP ran a 11.68 I think with 800 someodd HP in a 2wd version. I think the 3rd gen trucks might a tad heavier based on the extra FULL door back there but I dont know for certain.

[Billyram]

I ran 12.70s and low .80s at 540 hp and my truck is at 7150 lbs.
I ran 12.50s and low .60s at 567 hp.

[Timbeaux]

Good thread Chris. I wonder if the Peak #'s we see out of the 3rd gens are spikier in nature? Do the 2nd gens both 12v and 24v have a flatter power curve?

[Toolman]

The 3nd Gens are allot heavier my truck weighs in at 7200 with everything I can take out of it to race. But I agree some of the trucks put up some great dyno numbers and can't do anything on the track. I think it has allot to do with getting the power to the ground too.

[c-hawk]

COMP ran a 11.68 I think with 800 someodd HP in a 2wd version. I think the 3rd gen trucks might a tad heavier based on the extra FULL door back there but I dont know for certain.

Do you know what the mph was on that run? With a two wheel drive truck traction may have been an issue. I mean, if 800+hp is only good for an 11.68 that seems kinda slow i think. I don't know...

Thanks

[c-hawk]

I ran 12.70s and low .80s at 540 hp and my truck is at 7150 lbs.
I ran 12.50s and low .60s at 567 hp.

Thanks for the info.

Some more numbers to chew on...

My good friend ran a 12.30 and a 12.36 with a dyno proven 516hp and less then 1000tq. This is an 01 qc sb 4x4 with DTT auto. Seems fast for the hp.

On the other hand, i think his truck is about 6800 lbs, so it may be largely a weight difference that accounts for the et differences.

I'm interested to see some more peoples thoughts on this topic.

Thanks much,

Chris

[c-hawk]

The 3nd Gens are allot heavier my truck weighs in at 7200 with everything I can take out of it to race. But I agree some of the trucks put up some great dyno numbers and can't do anything on the track. I think it has allot to do with getting the power to the ground too.


I'm thinking your probably right.

[c-hawk]

Good thread Chris. I wonder if the Peak #'s we see out of the 3rd gens are spikier in nature? Do the 2nd gens both 12v and 24v have a flatter power curve?

Thanks Tim.

Maybe i've missed it, but i don't recall ever seeing this discussed. I really am wondering. From the replies here it seems that weight is one major factor. But still, it seems that there may be more to it then this.

Hopefully this thread will get a good number of replies and i can get a good idea of how these trucks turn HP into ET.

I really am starting to want one...

Chris

[bdp]

Lets see some comparison dyno sheets. Would be nice if David would pull out some sheets like a 600hp 12v, 600hp 24v and a 600hp cr and compare the graphs. It wouldnt be totally scientific but would be nice to look at.

[ramctd]

Mine weighs close to 7300lbs with me in it at the track. 3rd gens also loose a little to aeordynamics and it does add up.

I ran 13.2s with TST/EZ/BDTD stack and dyno'd around 525rwhp. Switched to the Smarty and ran 12.7s and dyno'd around 570rwhp.

A lot does depend on driver and TC/Trans and what boost levels you can launch at to get the power on the ground and rolling.

[TJSHOTROD]

Mine weighs close to 7300lbs with me in it at the track. 3rd gens also loose a little to aeordynamics and it does add up.

I ran 13.2s with TST/EZ/BDTD stack and dyno'd around 525rwhp. Switched to the Smarty and ran 12.7s and dyno'd around 570rwhp.

A lot does depend on driver and TC/Trans and what boost levels you can launch at to get the power on the ground and rolling.

How are you guys coming up with this weight and aerodynamics of a 3rd gen being worse than a 2nd gen. I do not know what 3rd gens weigh but my 2nd gen weighs 7300 pounds and I do not think Dodge would spend 100's of thousand of dollars on wind tunnel test to make a less aerodynamic truck.

[edgerat]

To the naked eye the 3rd gens look like they have more GRILL on em than the second gens.

[ramctd]

How are you guys coming up with this weight and aerodynamics of a 3rd gen being worse than a 2nd gen. I do not know what 3rd gens weigh but my 2nd gen weighs 7300 pounds and I do not think Dodge would spend 100's of thousand of dollars on wind tunnel test to make a less aerodynamic truck.


I weighed mine on a Public Scale on the way to the track in racing configuration. No tool boxes in the bed and no spare tire. I then weighed it on the track scales with me in it.

Public Scale = 7160lbs (without me)
Track Scale = 7335lbs (with me)

The 3rd gen QCs seem to weigh 250-300lbs more than 2nd gens according to the Dodge weight specs.

The 3rd gens have a higher profile(taller) than second gens, that will effect aerodanmics to some degree. Just my .02.

[paulb]

My $.02... The stock tires on a 3rd gen are slightly shorter then the ones on a 2nd gen. 3rd gens come with 3.73 (?), 2nd gens with 3.54. We will leave the 4.10's out of it... Because of the lower gears, the 3rd gens have a tendency to spin more out of the hole, and hit both the mph and rpm limit earlier.

Paul

[John_P]

Chris:

As you may already know, my son John Jr. (banshee) has run a best of 12.6 @ 110 MPH with 677 RWHP in his 2004 Dodge CTD CR, QC, SB, 4X4 but with a 6-speed transmission. As I recall, his truck weighs 7110 lbs.

Hope that helps you some.

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John_P

[c-hawk]

John,

Thanks for the info.

That's nuts...

He's not losing very much et with that manual like most guys seem to. I think if i had 600hp with my 5600 i'd still probably run an 18.00. LOL You have any video, i'd love to see him banging through the gears, that's some impressive shifting.

Chris

[John_P]

Chris:

Yeah, your right, Johnner is an "anomaly" when it comes to shifting that NV5600 6-speed WITH a Haisley Dual Disc Street/Drag Clutch too!!

And yes, there is some video of him shifting the truck that Keegan Mabe (UnrulyNFS) took last year. I will try to get you a link to it. Last spring I ran him "heads-up" in my old 2002 Dodge CTD 24 valve truck with a TST PM 3 (Comp) "stacked" with an Edge EZ, 125 H.P. Injectors, a Piers HX-40/16 Turbo and a full billet ATS Tranny and I LOST!!:eek: It wasn't by much, maybe a truck length or so, but I LOST! That made a believer out of me that he can shift that big heavy 6-speed!

--------
John_P

[Burner]

Do you think it has anything to do with DC or Cummins electronics?

Could it be in relation to the stroke?

[DIESEL_POWER]

there are a good bit of hold backs on the CR's but if tuned right they will fly down the track, as for dyno #'s they are all over exagerated, it is very easy to spike a common rail on the dyno or fool the hp#'s via the dyno opperator or software setup. the list goes on. but you will see several sub 11's and even 10's out of the CR this year.

[Robertp]

i ran a 14.5 at 98mph with only a BDTD CL and a set of 80 hp injectors. with my 6 speed on a stock clutch. at that time i could have only been making 450HP at the most. man was that mustang beside me angry when we got to the end of the track:drive: . i have not yet gotten to the track with my new set up but i will you can bet on that. but i did dyno my current set up at 555hp/1016tq with the stock turbo,cp3 ,and clutch. so im sure i will be mid 13's if i can nail my shifts.

i too agree that (banshee) can row threw some gears.

[CookCR]

Im hoping to be at 650HP by the next time i hit the track, since i have a single cab im shooting for low 12's, ill be dynoing before hand as well.