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-   -   Need help with ladder bars (http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193397)

Smitty256 10-31-2016 09:15 PM

Need help with ladder bars
 
What is everyone making ladder bars out of? Square tubing? Pics and info please! Mine will be on a dodge but any help is appreciated

smokinVE 10-31-2016 10:17 PM

Anti Wrap bars | Torque arm | Traction Bar


Mine.

06 DIESEL 11-01-2016 04:59 AM

This thread is your friend.

lets see pics of traction bars - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together

If you want to add information to it just PM a moderator and they can open the thread again.

zstroken 11-01-2016 05:37 AM

Round will be your strongest geometric shape.

cquestad 11-01-2016 09:34 AM

^^^^^Not true...to generic of a statement.

A square vs a round of the same diameter vs width/height with the same wall thickness...the square is stronger in ever measure exempt torsion about its center.

CorneliusRox 11-01-2016 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zstroken (Post 2583219)
Round will be your strongest geometric shape.

I'd disagree. Round is going to give you the most torsional strength. Square tube would likely be stronger in the bending moments that'll be put on it.
Remember, the forces on them is almost solely rotating the axle and shoving the end of the bar into the frame.

That being said, I'd build it out of round because it looks so much better!

And I personally like the style with a shackle up front. a 'floating' ladder bar. Much less binding.

cquestad 11-01-2016 09:44 AM

The way the ends are connected will dictate the force in the bar...whether is is axial...compression/tension or moment...bending or both.

A shackle on one end and fixed at the axle...will make it a bending type.

zstroken 11-01-2016 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cquestad (Post 2583249)
^^^^^Not true...to generic of a statement.

A square vs a round of the same diameter vs width/height with the same wall thickness...the square is stronger in ever measure exempt torsion about its center.


Well are we talking 2" OD diameter, and 2" width/height? Or 2" OD diameter and 1.41" width/height?

CorneliusRox 11-01-2016 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cquestad (Post 2583251)
The way the ends are connected will dictate the force in the bar...whether is is axial...compression/tension or moment...bending or both.

A shackle on one end and fixed at the axle...will make it a bending type.

Ladder bars are fixed at the axle and have a bending moment on them, assuming no binding (why I called out the floating design).
Traction bars are a single floating bar in compression.

cquestad 11-01-2016 06:31 PM

2" OD vs 2" width/height

zstroken 11-01-2016 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cquestad (Post 2583348)
2" OD vs 2" width/height


So in general is a 2"OD stronger than 1.414" width/height?

biggy238 11-01-2016 08:01 PM

What about an I/H beam design?
(I want to go down in oraller history like Rudolph)

Carbon fiber I beams

I thought anything with rounded structures faired better under stress than to have corners (stress risers)

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk

CorneliusRox 11-02-2016 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zstroken (Post 2583352)
So in general is a 2"OD stronger than 1.414" width/height?

I built a simple calculator real quick. Here's what I found:
2" Solid bar 4' long in bending with a load of 3000N will only have a stress of 284.19MPa.
1.414" Solid Square bar 4' long in bending with a load of 3000N will have a stress of 473.69MPa

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ps10l985yl.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ps4pijxepf.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggy238 (Post 2583364)
What about an I/H beam design?
(I want to go down in oraller history like Rudolph)

Carbon fiber I beams

I thought anything with rounded structures faired better under stress than to have corners (stress risers)

Carbon fiber for one, isn't a long term solution. Every time it deforms, it breaks bonds and degrades. If you're using it only in a torsional application, it works pretty well. Bending and tensile it is still alright. Compression is doesn't love.

And I-beams are better in certain applications. This might even be one.
This is what I got for a 4' long, 3000N loaded I-beam that's 2" wide, 2" tall, and 1/2" thick.
It has a stress of 184.72MPa (which is the best yet). These hate torsional loading, but as long as you're not trying to get axle articulation (think off-roading style twisting), this would fight your bending forces really well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...pss7kkl1rw.jpg

biggy238 11-02-2016 09:20 AM

Carbon fiber was an oraller joke. I'm sorry.

The opportunity to articulate and see compression load should be low I would think.

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk

CorneliusRox 11-02-2016 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggy238 (Post 2583445)
Carbon fiber was an oraller joke. I'm sorry.

The opportunity to articulate and see compression load should be low I would think.

I agree with a floating ladder bar setup. Fixed, or a traction bar setup would both have some compression on them.

biggy238 11-02-2016 11:23 AM

I'm not communicating so well......

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cquestad 11-02-2016 11:25 AM

Compression strut is far more simple...lighter and takes advantage of existing strength of the leaf spring.

Period.

CorneliusRox 11-02-2016 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cquestad (Post 2583464)
Compression strut is far more simple...lighter and takes advantage of existing strength of the leaf spring.

Period.

When you say 'compression strut', do you mean the same thing as a traction bar?

http://lazarsmith.com/sitebuilder/im...38-611x342.jpg

cquestad 11-02-2016 12:02 PM

Yes...mount the lower rod end directly below the axle...3" is a nice offset.

36-48 inch bars are plenty long. 36 on a low truck...48 on a high truck.

1 1/2 Sch 40 Pipe is more than enough.


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