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Bodacious 10-27-2017 04:13 PM

My Engine Idea
 
This is really not my idea. Just the use of what I see. Hopefully. lol

Take a look at what German Engineers at VW have been showing us for years. Lol, not the oil pump bolt, the cut-away of the engine. lol

https://s19.postimg.org/9pj3dbmsz/VR6.jpg

Well, it really doesn't seem like much. The engine design has been around for quite some time. However, one night in my Brother-in-Laws garage, it hit me like a "Flash of Genius" so to speak.

His son was doing a head gasket job on a little Jetta that had a 2.8LVR6 engine. At first glance I just thought it was a four cylinder. Then I seen the underside of the head.

Lots of crazy ideas started flying around and a month or so later I had the latest and greatest VR6 in my shop. This is a 2013 "Direct Injected" gasoline 3.6L VR6. Sorry for the sideway pics.

https://s19.postimg.org/9crp724ib/VR6wieght.jpg

DDually 10-27-2017 04:24 PM

Wait.... So what's your idea? I'm confused

Bodacious 10-27-2017 04:24 PM

This is a good video to watch on the engine: VR6 Engine - Explained - YouTube

I had weighed the engine some time ago and really became excited. I went back through and found the pics. I had to go back down to the shop and re-weigh everything because I thought the scale had somehow been damaged.

https://s19.postimg.org/vby3u8y77/VR6wieght2.jpg

I thought this might not be a fair assessment. So, I grabbed an S-480 and situated it on top of the VR6. The engine hoist adapter is still hooked to the engine as well.

https://s19.postimg.org/6vfxzrpqr/VR6_S480.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/b4ko1wqf7/VR6_S480_weight.jpg

Bodacious 10-27-2017 04:27 PM

...addition of a P7100 injection pump:

https://s19.postimg.org/fdpe456k3/VR6s480_P7100.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/len3180w3/VR...100_weight.jpg

Bodacious 10-27-2017 04:29 PM

...and to be semi race ready weight, we need an exhaust manifold.

https://s19.postimg.org/4e46shqer/VR6_loaded.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/wqzoizepv/VR6_loaded_weight.jpg

Bodacious 10-27-2017 04:31 PM

So what does it all mean so far? Remember the all aluminum 3.0L BMW engines I tore apart? Remember the weight?

https://s19.postimg.org/oy90r4j2b/bmw_weight.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/cjm8qsjub/bmwweight2.jpg

This 3.6L VR6 is an iron block and less than 2/3 the length of the BMW yet maintains close to the same width.

J-Pipes 10-27-2017 05:49 PM

Cool!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Bodacious 10-27-2017 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDually (Post 2641651)
Wait.... So what's your idea? I'm confused

Suppose you took the VR6 design and swelled it up to say a 4.88" stroke and a 5" bore?

Bodacious 10-27-2017 08:44 PM

Dangit!! In post #1, I meant to point out that you are looking at the back of the engine. All cam timing happens back there.

jasonc 10-27-2017 09:53 PM

Being direct injected the design could be diesel in theory, are you planning on making a billet block and all the rest just off this design?

SmokeShow 10-27-2017 11:32 PM

My interest is peaked...

Bodacious 10-28-2017 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonc (Post 2641674)
Being direct injected the design could be diesel in theory, are you planning on making a billet block and all the rest just off this design?

Exactly. My first plan is to find someone competent enough to get some injectors in place of the spark plugs and hang a pump on it.

Hopefully, with a little luck, it will start up and run. I know I'm going to need help figuring out just what kind of spray pattern to go with. The design must create some decent swirl.

I bought another head so I will get some pics up of the combustion chamber. It looks nothing like a modern diesel combustion chamber so I'm a little worried here. lol

Looking forward, if the little 3.6L does run, I found a 4.4L stroker kit in Europe that will fit in the 3.6 block. I'm not hearing good things about this kit.

I priced a centroid A-560, 5-axis CNC milling machine. For around $250k, I could have the machine setting in my shop. No tooling, just setting there and this money includes training.

With this being said, I can do a whole lot of hand grinding and cutting. lol In actuality, just so long as everything is close enough to final machine work, conventional equipment can be used to finish the work.

Scott Law (Chipmaker) made me realize that simple machining fact. Scott also had a crazy idea to weld a block together. Instead of cutting material away to create the block, you weld one together. I didn't give it much thought until I spoke with a few smaller shops willing to do my cutting for me. As much as I'd like to be able to hire them, I'll never get this thing off the ground spending that kind of money. So, as crazy as it sounds, I'm gonna try to weld a block together. I spoke with a fella who has repaired an aluminum block or two and he said it was genius. We may see. lol

9724VF350 10-28-2017 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodacious (Post 2641693)
Exactly.
Scott Law (Chipmaker) made me realize that simple machining fact. Scott also had a crazy idea to weld a block together. Instead of cutting material away to create the block, you weld one together. I didn't give it much thought until I spoke with a few smaller shops willing to do my cutting for me. As much as I'd like to be able to hire them, I'll never get this thing off the ground spending that kind of money. So, as crazy as it sounds, I'm gonna try to weld a block together. I spoke with a fella who has repaired an aluminum block or two and he said it was genius. We may see. lol

Fabricated blocks have been done quite a few times in tractor pulling. Do you have a CAD program?

Bodacious 10-28-2017 08:37 AM

I have been researching combustion chamber and piston design a little. I know now why pistons in conventional direct injected engines have bowls. Among other reasons, the bowl is designed to swirl the air as the piston ascends.

These pics are of an additional head I picked up. I have yet to pull the head off the test engine but the combustion chambers are the same. I will need to pull the head regardless and will study the piston tops then.

Really reaching out there, lol, it would be nice to build a Unit Injector System to run off the available cam lobes.

https://s19.postimg.org/fhaxvhv3n/VR6head.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/6z1hr6yvn/VR6head2.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/tnqoqpitf/VR6head3.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/5jzx2inir/VR6head4.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/q44r0yl9f/VR6head5.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/mxa7ha3df/VR6head6.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/578iwbptf/VR6head7.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/7oka3keur/VR6head8.jpg

Bodacious 10-29-2017 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9724VF350 (Post 2641698)
Fabricated blocks have been done quite a few times in tractor pulling. Do you have a CAD program?

I bought Viacad. I designed and drew a few things with it. IMHO, to learn all it has to offer, I may as well get up to date with AutoCAD.

I haven't used AutoCAD since 2006. Not sure I could even draw a line with the new stuff.

Tobin 10-29-2017 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodacious (Post 2641814)
I bought Viacad. I designed and drew a few things with it. IMHO, to learn all it has to offer, I may as well get up to date with AutoCAD.

I haven't used AutoCAD since 2006. Not sure I could even draw a line with the new stuff.

AutoCAD is garbage.

mhuggler 10-29-2017 08:57 AM

I've always been curious to know exactly how crazy high are the piston skirt side loading figures for that engine.

Bodacious 10-29-2017 12:33 PM

Quote:

AutoCAD is garbage.
I haven't had the real need to use any CAD tools. I have some drawings here I did with my old manual drafting tools.

This ViaCad deal, we bought at Wal-Mart, is OK. It isn't accurate enough to do mechanical drawings.

Tobin,

What would you suggest for a fella in my position? What is out there you might approve of??

Quote:

exactly how crazy high are the piston skirt side loading figures for that engine
I don't have a clue. Any reason they would be much different than an old 12 valve??

9724VF350 10-29-2017 03:15 PM

I started out with Solidworks while knowing nothing about CAD. I caught on quickly and love it. I tried to use autocad once and absolutely despised it. You can pick up PC's on eBay with Solidworks already on them pretty reasonable.

kleann 10-29-2017 08:21 PM

AutoCAD is more for 2d modeling. Solidworks is nice for 3d. Fusion 360 (which is made by the same company as autocad) seems like it might be worth a try for you considering the low cost of it.


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