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-   -   Compressor Starter Box Wiring (http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197673)

Red Sleeper 09-07-2017 07:33 AM

Compressor Starter Box Wiring
 
I picked up a 5hp 60 gallon single stage compressor, but it didn't come with the starter box. Previous owner was starting it through the pressure switch, which I'm not a fan of.

I purchased a starter box and now I'm unsure on how/where to exactly hook up wires. Box is mounted, two 110 legs and ground are hooked up, but I'm not sure where to hook up the wires that will run to the pressure switch.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0111db1d15.jpg
Two hots coming in from breaker panel.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2b94a87ae6.jpg
Top view of the starter. Thinking I'll just run my wires to the open brass terminals on top?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...075a5209eb.jpg
Pressure switch.

Red Sleeper 10-31-2017 12:19 AM

Bump for some knowledge on wiring this starter.

It's painful not having compressed air.

thatguy69 10-31-2017 10:42 AM

OK so the pressure switch is what will pull the coil in on your starter. Your pressure switch should have 2 legs of 110v going to one side of contacts on your pressure switch,the other side of the pressure switch contacts will go to the coil on your starter so that once your pressure switch pulls in the contacts from lack of pressure, it pulls the starter coil in. You can pull the 2 legs of 110 off of the hot side of your starter thatre needed to run to the pressure switch. The coil terminals should be labeled A1 and A2

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thatguy69 10-31-2017 10:44 AM

Also looks like your missing a heater on the left side of your overload, or buss bar. Can't tell what is in there

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Red Sleeper 11-01-2017 09:51 PM

Thanks for the information! Makes sense to me. I'll give this a try once I'm back from work travels.

This starter box doesn't have a heater. Does it need one?

thatguy69 11-01-2017 10:08 PM

Electrical terms of a Heater is something thatll open up the circuit if the compressor pulls to many amps. The missing one is directly above your middle finger in the first picture, the correct side is above your index finger. Also not quite sure what the red wires are doing in there? Anymore questions just ask, I'm not the greatest at explaining things

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Red Sleeper 11-02-2017 08:28 AM

The red wires were in the box and already connected when the unit arrived.
Pre-wired from the manufacture.

thatguy69 11-02-2017 12:45 PM

Starter should've came with a schematic, post it if you get a chance

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4x4dually 11-02-2017 01:53 PM

I just now saw this. If you don't get it figured out, holler at me. It's gravy and I don't mind helping ya out.

Pressure switch will be in series with your coil wire. Also, on mine, I put a toggle switch in series with it as well and mounted it through the started enclosure. That way, if I leave for the weekend, I can flip it off. If the tank or hoses develop a leak, it won't run the entire time I'm gone and burn up. $.02

4x4dually 11-02-2017 01:55 PM

Like this. If your coil is 120 vac, then it will return to neutral instead of L2.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1vhlJhPvap...%2BDiagram.png

4x4dually 11-02-2017 01:57 PM

Is it a 110 or 220 motor? The starter picture you posted is missing a heater. Gonna need that to run 220 VAC. The silver thing at the bottom. I call them heaters...they are thermal overloads.

Opps. Just noticed I was beat to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy69 (Post 2642169)
Also looks like your missing a heater on the left side of your overload, or buss bar. Can't tell what is in there


So, in that diagram, if the thermal overloads (heaters) get hot, they melt the solder inside allowing the little doo-dad inside to spin and trip the OL (overload) contact. You'll notice it is wired in series with the coil. This if your motor protection from over-current. To reset, just push the red bar that says "reset."

thatguy69 11-02-2017 03:16 PM

Starter says it's a 220 coil. I just assumed his motor is wired for 5hp. But your right it could be 110 also

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zstroken 11-02-2017 03:29 PM

I believe since it is a 220V single phase motor you would only need 1 heater(installing the 2nd heater won't hurt anything but it isn't needed), you can just put a jumper in place on the other side.

4x4dually 11-02-2017 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zstroken (Post 2642603)
I believe since it is a 220V single phase motor you would only need 1 heater(installing the 2nd heater won't hurt anything but it isn't needed), you can just put a jumper in place on the other side.

You can jumper it, yes. Just wanted him to realize when he turned it on and it didn't work that not matter what he did.....it wouldn't move.

"Current can't jump....and open circuit."

We had an EET instructor back in our first semester for ECT1104. This was fall of '92 at Ok State University. It was "intro to electronics" class and I think his name was Richard Zmich (sp?) or something. Anyways...he was a big ol' boy. Very, very, large man. He would ask something like "what is the current through R1?" with a diagram on the board that had an open in the circuit. Some of the kids would start doing math in their heads and blurt out some retarded answer. He would squat down, then lung forward at warp .00000000048 speed and jump a few 12" floor tiles. When he would land, it seemed like the entire Engineering North building would shake since we were on the 4th floor. I'm sure the fine folks in the classroom under us crapped their pants and thought the unibomber convention was in town. He would always follow his little jump with "Current can't jump....and open circuit!"

Never in my life will I forget that. It was one of those brilliant teaching aids. :hehe:

zstroken 11-02-2017 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4dually (Post 2642606)
You can jumper it, yes. Just wanted him to realize when he turned it on and it didn't work that not matter what he did.....it wouldn't move.

"Current can't jump....and open circuit."

We had an EET instructor back in our first semester for ECT1104. This was fall of '92 at Ok State University. It was "intro to electronics" class and I think his name was Richard Zmich (sp?) or something. Anyways...he was a big ol' boy. Very, very, large man. He would ask something like "what is the current through R1?" with a diagram on the board that had an open in the circuit. Some of the kids would start doing math in their heads and blurt out some retarded answer. He would squat down, then lung forward at warp .00000000048 speed and jump a few 12" floor tiles. When he would land, it seemed like the entire Engineering North building would shake since we were on the 4th floor. I'm sure the fine folks in the classroom under us crapped their pants and thought the unibomber convention was in town. He would always follow his little jump with "Current can't jump....and open circuit!"

Never in my life will I forget that. It was one of those brilliant teaching aids. :hehe:


Understood, someone else had pointed out the missing heater as well. Just didn't want the guy searching hi and low for a heater, when he could jumper it. Well technically there is current across the open, however we can't measure it LOL. So we round down to 0 LOL

4x4dually 11-02-2017 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zstroken (Post 2642608)
Understood, someone else had pointed out the missing heater as well. Just didn't want the guy searching hi and low for a heater, when he could jumper it. Well technically there is current across the open, however we can't measure it LOL. So we round down to 0 LOL

Yes, yes, round down to zero. You get more literal than some of the old crusty analog guys around here that feed us that kind of schidt on a regular basis. LOL

thatguy69 11-02-2017 09:51 PM

So you guys are assuming that both poles in the motor are pulling the same amps, so it's ok to only use overcurrent protection on one leg? If that's the case why do you fuse all 3 legs of a 3 phase motor instead of fusing just 1 leg and putting pipe nipples for fuses on the other 2 legs?

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zstroken 11-02-2017 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy69 (Post 2642661)
So you guys are assuming that both poles in the motor are pulling the same amps, so it's ok to only use overcurrent protection on one leg? If that's the case why do you fuse all 3 legs of a 3 phase motor instead of fusing just 1 leg and putting pipe nipples for fuses on the other 2 legs?

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If you look at the 220V motor it is a single phase(yes it can be two legs of 120V). So yes one overload would work. Properly done motor circuits(not some 1/8 HP motor or oddball), a motor circuit protector(no thermal trip unit) or a fuses with time delay for short circuit protection, and the overloads protect for "overload" conditions. If you see some old motor circuits used to only have overloads on 2 of the 3 phases.

I have seen applications where people will use a magnetic/thermal breaker on a motor circuit, but for it to be done properly it should be a mag trip motor circuit protector for short circuit protection and then the overloads protect for an overload condition.

zstroken 11-02-2017 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy69 (Post 2642661)
So you guys are assuming that both poles in the motor are pulling the same amps, so it's ok to only use overcurrent protection on one leg? If that's the case why do you fuse all 3 legs of a 3 phase motor instead of fusing just 1 leg and putting pipe nipples for fuses on the other 2 legs?

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I didn't get to respond to the question about the pipe nipples, but it is the same theory, the fuses protect for short circuits, and the overloads protect for overloads. Any leg of a 3 phase circuit can have a short circuit, so you need short circuit protection on individual legs.

4x4dually 11-03-2017 08:13 AM

If both legs of a single phase motor aren't pulling the same amount of amps...then there is something wrong. LOL It "is" possible. For instance, if a winding starts shorting or some oddball crap, so it is advised to run both thermal overloads. We were merely stating that he could jumper it if he wanted to so he could get it running. On a three phase, you could protect two out of the three if you wanted....but no one in their right mind would do it that way. You wouldn't believe the amount of Nigerian rigged schidt that shows up while doing service calls. It always amazed me what people thought was ok.


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