VE to VP44 swap questions

R

RXT

New member
Hello
I have a 1st gen 89 non-i/c engine that I'd like to get as much HP out of. Currently, I have the VE pump with the usual mods, HE351 and 5X.012 injectors. My guess based on all the other posts on this forum and others is this combo will be good for about 300-350hp. I'd like to go much further. While I know that I could go with a P-pump, I also know that it's going to cost a lot more money to swap and a ton of parts and work. I was also considering a 14mm head, for the VE, but everyone seems to agree that they don't last very long. After researching other possible pumps, I know that the VP44 was capable of making more power than a maxed out VE. Maybe not as much as a P-pump, but, it's better than what I got. However I also understand that they weren't dependable. Is this true?

Will a VP44 bolt right up to where the VE is without having to swap gear cases, etc? I also understand that the VP uses a computer and this computer is mounted on the pump. Is it easy to hook up on a truck without a computer?

Thanks in advance
Ed
 
I'm sure that when you look at money spent between the P and VP swap you'll be much further a head doing a P pump swap. Could be wrong though. It would definitely be unique since everyone wants the mighty P pump.


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Some 12 valves did have VP 30s on them, which is also an ECM-controlled pump.
I had one of those, a 6 cylinder pump, which I cored out a few months back.

Mark.
 
WILD_PHIL said:
I'm sure that when you look at money spent between the P and VP swap you'll be much further a head doing a P pump swap. Could be wrong though. It would definitely be unique since everyone wants the mighty P pump.
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Actually, I was looking at the money part. Personally the P-pump swap is more appealing to me, but it looks like it's going to cost a ton of money to do it. Besides the pump (which is expensive all by itself) you need to swap everything to mount and drive that pump. The cost is such that, I'd be better off selling my 1st gen and buying a running 2nd Gen. The VP won't match what a P-pump can potentially do, but it should offer more than what the VE can do.

zfaylor said:
It isn't as a simple as bolting on the pump and putting power to a computer.
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Darn, thats kinda what I was hoping for

Mark Nixon said:
Some 12 valves did have VP 30s on them, which is also an ECM-controlled pump.
I had one of those, a 6 cylinder pump, which I cored out a few months back.

Mark.
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And what would be the difference between the VP44 vs a VP30?

Thanks everyone
Ed
 
P-pump it. I seen a 13mm on here a few weeks ago for $2800 I believe. You won't make power any cheaper than that.

Now that being said, watch the classifieds for a timing cover and a set of lines. Get you a good gear from Jesse (Got Torque on here).

HP cost money and the HP/$$ curve is exponential on the bottom. Lots of absolute priceless info on here to help you get where you want to be. Keep in mind, fuel is only part of the $$ equation. When I say exponential, it is the little things you have to add to keep it alive and cool that will eat your wallet.

We have compounded, hot rod'd ve that probably went over 400HP with the 14mm head. After the 14mm head failure, we went back with a Mt. Diesel hot rod pump that they did a few more tricks to. This truck is a joy to drive at +/-300HP and compounds. I just can't imagine trying to tow with much more HP than that as it is a chore now to keep egt's down.
 
9724VF350 said:
The VP30 engine I have uses the same gear housing and gear as a VE.
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Hmm, thats interesting. Maybe worth investigating, but would you know if it can move more fuel than a VE? (and the next question after that, the details concerning how to plug it in?)

Bodacious said:
P-pump it. I seen a 13mm on here a few weeks ago for $2800 I believe. You won't make power any cheaper than that.
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Thats what I was afraid of…well, I'll have to look into it

HP cost money and the HP/$$ curve is exponential on the bottom.
Click to expand...

I would had guessed that it's exponential as you go up. I did the free mods first but realized early on that if I wanted more it was going to cost. So I did the cheap mods next (fuel pin, 3200GSK, timing device), then did the more expensive stuff after that, (injectors) Had to add supporting mods next (built a 47RE and added a HE351)

Now I'm looking at more and hitting the limits of the VE at the same time. To get beyond the VE the prices increase. The VP idea is that maybe I can get to 500hp without buying the more expensive P-pump and associated hardware. -if it's doable. If not, I maybe stuck at VE limits until I'm willing to pay the money

Lots of absolute priceless info on here to help you get where you want to be.
Click to expand...

(Thanks, I'm counting on it)

We have compounded, hot rod'd ve that probably went over 400HP with the 14mm head. After the 14mm head failure, we went back with a Mt. Diesel hot rod pump that they did a few more tricks to. This truck is a joy to drive at +/-300HP and compounds. I just can't imagine trying to tow with much more HP than that as it is a chore now to keep egt's down.
Click to expand...

In my researches, I've read a bunch of your posts and responses looking for an edge. (Thank you -I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciate reading your contributions)

In my case, I got a 1st gen shoved into a Dakota 4x4 (was tempted to buy a 55 gal drum of Vaseline to get it slide in) So weight wise, it's similar to the 89-93 trucks, but it won't be used to tow much. Maybe a small trailer to make up for the lack of bed space, but nothing thats going to test the Dakota's frame

Thanks again
Ed
 
Not sure what all is needed for a p-pump swap, but I see complete 12V P-pump engines for $2k or less pretty regularly. Could you just get one and steal the parts needed and sell the rest? Found one. limaohio.craigslist.org/pts/d/96-12v-cummins-with-mods/6272251534.htm


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Last edited:
Most times just swapping the whole engine for a p pump engine is usually the cheapest and easiest method. Then just sell your ve engine to recoup some of the costs. Remember to swap the gear housings you have to pull the cam, that can be a chore in a full sized truck, I can't imagine in a Dakota body.

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badbowtie said:
Most times just swapping the whole engine for a p pump engine is usually the cheapest and easiest method. Then just sell your ve engine to recoup some of the costs. Remember to swap the gear housings you have to pull the cam, that can be a chore in a full sized truck, I can't imagine in a Dakota body.

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Forgot that little tid bit. May be a real chore in the Dakota???

Ed, truck sounds pretty strong all around. If all else fails, you can always go P-pump, eh??
 
J-Pipes said:
Not sure what all is needed for a p-pump swap, but I see complete 12V P-pump engines for $2k or less pretty regularly. Could you just get one and steal the parts needed and sell the rest? Found one. limaohio.craigslist.org/pts/d/96-12v-cummins-with-mods/6272251534.htm
Click to expand...

badbowtie said:
Most times just swapping the whole engine for a p pump engine is usually the cheapest and easiest method. Then just sell your ve engine to recoup some of the costs. Remember to swap the gear housings you have to pull the cam, that can be a chore in a full sized truck, I can't imagine in a Dakota body.
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Yeah the idea has crossed my mind.

Bodacious said:
Forgot that little tid bit. May be a real chore in the Dakota???

Ed, truck sounds pretty strong all around. If all else fails, you can always go P-pump, eh??
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I'm hoping it'll be pretty strong, but I'm always on the hunt to push the envelope a little further. Swapping engines maybe an option, so is a P-pump swap, and so is *nx* :nos:

…just don't tell my wife. I already spent a wheel barrow full of money on that Dakota and if she knew I was thinking about more, I'd be a dead man

Ed
 
You really want to p-pump it?

I have a 13mm Columbus Diesel pump (600cc-1000cc), a set of 5x.025 injectors, and I have enough of the timing housings and covers to mount it up...no injection lines or throttle linkage....I'll ship everything to you for $3250.

That is one heck of a good pump, 5K governor, really good fueling pump. You won't scratch the surface of a VP swap for that money, and that's enough fuel for as much power as you want to make....ever probably.

Chris

Edit, I have a NX Systems progressive nitrous setup too...for sale. I can just fix you up with a whole pile of stuff...
 
Power adders are your friend. I think Tom Collins made something like 607 on water meth and nitrous? As I recall he was only around 300 on fuel. No reason you can't get over 400 at least with the VE, water meth, lots of timing, and bigger injectors like 5x18s.

There are also some folks out there running the Rockentech 14mm pumps, some live, some don't.....I know of at least 3 or 4 that are running right now. I wouldn't abandon the VE idea just yet.
 
Signature600 said:
You really want to p-pump it?

I have a 13mm Columbus Diesel pump (600cc-1000cc), a set of 5x.025 injectors, and I have enough of the timing housings and covers to mount it up...no injection lines or throttle linkage....I'll ship everything to you for $3250.

That is one heck of a good pump, 5K governor, really good fueling pump. You won't scratch the surface of a VP swap for that money, and that's enough fuel for as much power as you want to make....ever probably.

Chris

Edit, I have a NX Systems progressive nitrous setup too...for sale. I can just fix you up with a whole pile of stuff...
Click to expand...

I do appreciate the offer, but that would get me killed if my wife sees that much missing from our bank account.

Ed
 
JQmile said:
I wouldn't abandon the VE idea just yet.
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I'm not against using the VE and at this point, I would certainly continue to use it.….. Now if I hit the power ball, thats another story. My curiosity about the VP44 is that if it's also a rotary type pump, that it might fit where the VE sits…Of course the computer on the VP is total voodoo to me, and new VPs aren't exactly cheap either, but I was just curious if they will physically fit.

The 14mm pump would be the way to go if they were more dependable. But the risk seems to be too great and if anything, the more logical choice would be to P-pump seeing theta P-pumps are far more dependable and far more room to grow. I'll just have to wait till I can sell one of my kidneys and a few gallons of O positive to afford it.

Ed
 
RXT said:
I'm not against using the VE and at this point, I would certainly continue to use it.….. Now if I hit the power ball, thats another story. My curiosity about the VP44 is that if it's also a rotary type pump, that it might fit where the VE sits…Of course the computer on the VP is total voodoo to me, and new VPs aren't exactly cheap either, but I was just curious if they will physically fit.

The 14mm pump would be the way to go if they were more dependable. But the risk seems to be too great and if anything, the more logical choice would be to P-pump seeing theta P-pumps are far more dependable and far more room to grow. I'll just have to wait till I can sell one of my kidneys and a few gallons of O positive to afford it.

Ed
Click to expand...
Problem is, VP44's don't make a whole much more than VE pumps....most of the big HP guys are running modded VP44's, which for the cost, might as well p-pump it.
 
J-Pipes said:
Not sure what all is needed for a p-pump swap, but I see complete 12V P-pump engines for $2k or less pretty regularly. Could you just get one and steal the parts needed and sell the rest? Found one. limaohio.craigslist.org/pts/d/96-12v-cummins-with-mods/6272251534.htm


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Click to expand...

For cost effectiveness, this is the best route. (You can spend a pile on a ppump engine as well depending on how far you want to go). If you are wanting 500hp, you can get there relatively cheap and easy with a ppump. Then like stated above, sell your ve engine to recoup some cost. Then watch the classifieds for discounted performance parts. Sometimes you have to be patient when on a budget, but the deals will come along.

Or.......add some more power to your ve and enjoy 400hp, while saving time and money, and keeping a happy home with your wife at the sametime:Cheer:
 
JQmile said:
Problem is, VP44's don't make a whole much more than VE pumps....most of the big HP guys are running modded VP44's, which for the cost, might as well p-pump it.
Click to expand...

No doubt a P pump would be the smart way to go….I can't argue otherwise. I guess what I'm asking is, is there another pump that will make more HP than a VE, yet bolt up without having to swap out everything to run it? The only one I could think of, the VP seems similar to the VE, in that it's a rotary pump too (But I have no idea) Probably a long shot question to ask, and one I'd probably not try because the bigger issue would be how to make the computer work.

But in any case, I thought I'd ask mostly out of curiosity.

Meyers Farms said:
For cost effectiveness, this is the best route. (You can spend a pile on a ppump engine as well depending on how far you want to go). If you are wanting 500hp, you can get there relatively cheap and easy with a ppump. Then like stated above, sell your ve engine to recoup some cost. Then watch the classifieds for discounted performance parts. Sometimes you have to be patient when on a budget, but the deals will come along.
Click to expand...

Totally valid points and that would not be off the table

Or…….add some more power to your ve and enjoy 400hp, while saving time and money, and keeping a happy home with your wife at the sometime:Cheer:
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As much as the P pumper appeals to me, this is probably my best option. I know the mileage and condition of this engine. And I can sure use the extra money and time. Thanks….I guess I'm on the 400HP hunt :ft:

Ed
 
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