47RH Electronic Conversion

Redrider2911 said:
I am a professional..... At modifying things to work how I want. If you haven't gathered already, I don't just want a extremely firm and high RPM shift. I am by no means attempting to recreate the wheel. I want control of line pressure rise independent of shift RPM rise. I want the torque converter to automatically lock in 2nd, unlock for the shift to 3rd, lock again, unlock for the shift to 4th, and then lock again. And like wise, I want it to do the same on downshifts when on the brakes. I want a couple presets I can change between so that when I go to the track the torque converter will lock in second and stay locked through the shifts to 3rd and 4th and then unlock when I hit the brakes for the downshift back to 3rd at the end of the track and then proceed like described above. Like I said, and Chris has said; the Dodge transmssions shift logic has left a lot to be desired. Additionally, no vendor (as far as I have found) offers that kind of shift logic for the Dodge transmissions which is astonishing to me. And even if they did, the cost would probably be so high that I would rather make the system myself for 1/4 the cost.
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My anteater did exactly what you are talking about wanting on my 47re. I don’t believe it can be done with a hydraulic controlled transmission. In my opinion it would be cheaper for you to just buy an anteater, and a valve body, swap your crap into a 47re and be done
 
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Redrider2911 said:
So ONE of the things I want to do... And at the low low price of only $5500!!!! Oh bummer, and only good for '03 or later trucks. I wonder what they would do if I wanted to bring in my 49 Willys with '94 drivetrain.
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You introduced the idea like it’s never been done before. Good products with r and d ain’t cheap and cheap parts and r and d ain’t quality
 
Justappumped24v said:
My anteater did exactly what you are talking about wanting on my 47re. I don’t believe it can be done with a hydraulic controlled transmission. In my opinion it would be cheaper for you to just buy an anteater, and a valve body, swap your crap into a 47re and be done
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Wrong, Anteater can not control Shift points and Line Pressure rise independently. They also can fall subject to temperature issues as a few people have already had complaints. They also do not have the shift logic/torque converter control logic available that I would like, a few people have expressed concerns of this as well (all though I am sure they are probably looking into it now...) And also wrong, an anteater is like what 800 bucks? This conversion I want to do would cost me under 400 easy AND it can be done with my RH which negates the cost of buying an RE core transmission.
 
Redrider2911 said:
Wrong, Anteater can not control Shift points and Line Pressure rise independently. They also can fall subject to temperature issues as a few people have already had complaints. They also do not have the shift logic/torque converter control logic available that I would like, a few people have expressed concerns of this as well (all though I am sure they are probably looking into it now...) And also wrong, an anteater is like what 800 bucks? This conversion I want to do would cost me under 400 easy AND it can be done with my RH which negates the cost of buying an RE core transmission.
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Couldn’t speak to that, I can speak to a improved drivability, and custom trans tuning. Temperatures never had issues with, elevation nope, towing nope. Best of luck to your invention! Lol. Judging by your wants I have a nv4500 in my garage you can have for 500
 
Redrider2911 said:
And also wrong, an anteater is like what 800 bucks? This conversion I want to do would cost me under 400 easy AND it can be done with my RH which negates the cost of buying an RE core transmission.
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And I get the satisfaction of building something myself. Some people still believe in the built not bought mentality, apparently others don't.
 
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Justappumped24v said:
Couldn’t speak to that, I can speak to a improved drivability, and custom trans tuning. Temperatures never had issues with, elevation nope, towing nope. Best of luck to your invention! Lol. Judging by your wants I have a nv4500 in my garage you can have for 500
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REALLY!? Like you would give me an NV4500 capable of shifting itself in a consistent/repeatable fashion for such a good deal!? You are so kind. This is almost too good to be true. :cheer:
 
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Muldoon's didn't do anything proprietary to my knowledge.

OP, you propose to use the external ports for supply/metering?

So far, you are correct on all of your discussion points. I am skeptical of your price point though.

How do you intend to trim your SCV's initially?

Fail safe?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
Redrider2911 said:
REALLY!? Like you would give me an NV4500 capable of shifting itself in a consistent/repeatable fashion for such a good deal!? You are so kind. This is almost too good to be true. :cheer:
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I would almost build an automated NV just prove it could be done.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
biggy238 said:
Muldoon's didn't do anything proprietary to my knowledge.

OP, you propose to use the external ports for supply/metering?

So far, you are correct on all of your discussion points. I am skeptical of your price point though.

How do you intend to trim your SCV's initially?

Fail safe?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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Hey! Someone that wants to bring relevant technical discussion to the table!
I'm in the early stages of thought process right now. For my application, the only thing I am really concerned about measuring is the line pressure and temperature to make sure the pressure control valve is working properly; all though I am open to ideas of what else might be needed. I believe you can get valves with built in temp sensors to make it easier, though I don't know if that would be cost effective.

I figure all I am going to need to purchase is 2 shift valves, 1 pressure control valve, and the MegaSquirt MicroTCU. I will be able to machine any adapter/mounting plates that I need in house. Should be doable under 400 bucks no?

MicroTCU can supply digital, analogue, and PWM outputs; so that as well as a K factor from the fluid temp?

Havent thought about fail safes yet. You thinking about the harness losing power and the transmission suddenly shifting down to 1st gear? That's actually a very valid concern that I haven't thought about yet. What about it being as simple as using normally closed shift valves that open up to start in first gear upon power up? If a failure occurs, worse case scenario you are stuck in 3rd gear. What do you think?
 
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biggy238 said:
OP, you propose to use the external ports for supply/metering?
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I reread what you typed here and I am thinking I misunderstood at first. You thinking that maybe the accumulator pressure test port could be used to plumb to the pressure SCV and then that could meter the pressure externally and excess pressure could be reintroduced to like the lubrication circuit or something? I didn't even think about that approach. I planned to tap into the valve body itself and mount the pressure SCV right on the valve body similar to the RE transmissions.
 
I noticed skimming thru you said you couldn't get over 175 line pressure, go to a 48re pump. I am making 250 and could go higher.
 
jasonc said:
I noticed skimming thru you said you couldn't get over 175 line pressure, go to a 48re pump. I am making 250 and could go higher.
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Good idea, that is actually something I haven't tried. I remember in Will's Junker thread, he was also having trouble getting his RH pressure up to 200. At one point he shimmed the pressure regulator spring so much that it bottomed in the bore and pressure shot up well over 250 if I remember correctly... I haven't started to shim the spring yet, just have the Transgo stiffer spring and the preload cranked all the way down on it. I daily drive my truck, so part of my appeal to the electronically controlled pressure valve is that I can run it at like 100 psi at idle and get an additional 125 or so psi rise depending on throttle input. I think even the REs with the "better" boost valve can only rise like 60psi?
 
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In order to get your end result, you would need to determine how temperature effects the trans fluid, and come up with a stand alone computer to take input data from a temperature sensor, and translate that from a solid state table into an output on shifting strategy to properly control temperature on fluid. My company uses a thermistor pressure regulator to control hydraulic flow as the fluid warms up. The computer and valve are about the size of an over drive housing. No one builds it anymore??? I better see you casting or milliing out the valves, making your own solenoids as well as casting your own trans case. Get real sir, you are using store bought parts and assembling them just as I purchased my engine parts and assembled them myself. I repurpose things to make do but at the end of the day everything is bought.
 
You won’t see me milling valves as that is not necessary for my modifications. You will however see me designing and milling my own solenoid blocks, adapter plates, and block off plates... as well as lasering out my own brackets and such. Oh and yes, before you ask; of course i harvested my own high purity CO2, helium, and nitrogen for the CO2 laser! What kind of a built not bought guy would i be? Lol

I might mention (again) that with my setup, temperature and line pressure will not have affect on my shift strategy. So your attempt at sounding smart with some applicable tech didn’t help much.
 
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Redrider2911 said:
You won’t see me milling valves as that is not necessary for my modifications. You will however see me designing and milling my own solenoid blocks, adapter plates, and block off plates... as well as lasering out my own brackets and such. Oh and yes, before you ask; of course i harvested my own high purity CO2, helium, and nitrogen for the CO2 laser! What kind of a built not bought guy would i be? ��

I might mention (again) that with my setup, temperature and line pressure will not have affect on my shift strategy. So your attempt at sounding smart with some applicable tech didn’t help much.
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There is absolutely no way you could have a transmission shift perfect without accounting for changes in fluid temperature. My transmission cold line pressure versus warm pressure is a pretty big difference as the fluid thins out. If you are going through all this work, I would think you would want to calculate for that as well. Hell they even sell atmospheric pressure controlled valves if you really want to get fancy. And in your application, you have not accounted for fluid flow for shift strategy. Based upon your ideas and thoughts, cold fluid will cause soft lazy shifts and hot fluid will be what you are truly wanting. 140* in the pan vs 180* in the pan is about 13psi if my harbor freight gauge is accurate, but then again I bought it.
 
Redrider2911 said:
So i am getting tired of my transmission’s inconsistent shifting between temperature changers along with other issues. Like the throttle cable being tight enough to raise the line pressure like i like but then having issues with shifts hanging or random harsh kickdowns when it shouldn’t be. Etc. There’s a lot to be desired.

So i like DIY type projects where i get to use some creativity as well as really get to know a system. So i am thinking about converting my 47RH over to pretty much full electric control. i know a few people will be like, why not just swap to a 47re or 48re, and better yet; buy a standalone controller from a vendor. WELL. I already have this transmission and the options available leave much to be desired. My biggest complaint is the lack of TCC lock and unlock control. Which i will share my ideas as this progresses. My other issue is that with controlling the shift points by the electronic governor pressure regulator, it can still be finicky with temperature changes and lacks direct line pressure and throttle pressure control.

So my thought is (simply put), adapt some OE style dump solenoid valves (like what is used for the OD and TCC) to the governor plug side of the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valves. Then use a GM pressure solenoid valve to control line pressure completely independently. Originally i was going to build an Arduino to control this, but then i found that MegaSquirt has actually came out with a MicroTcu board that is TunerStudio compatible and should be able to do everything i want for a decent price.

Sorry for the long intro, but what are your initial thoughts?
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Also a cheap fix for the temperature issue is wiring a resistor instead of the temp gauge that way the computer sees a constant temperature and will shift the same. I believe it’s a 32ohm
 
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