Need info for converting to DRW and building 4-link

[Muddin_dude06]

Hey you guys I have some questions for anyone who has built a 4 link before , I've been playing around with the excel 4-link calculator and right now I'm sitting at about 80% anti-squat and about 2* change in the pinion angle from ride height to full compression. How does that sound for a tow-rig?

I'm planning on using air bags for the springs in it, I saw Tate used these W01-358-5439 In his build, I was thinking of using the same or W01-358-8900. Plan as of right now is to build a flatbed for the truck eventually but use a regular DRW bed at first. The trucks main job is farm truck duty and towing. Probably the heaviest I'll need to tow is 17,000 or so on a 25' GN.

Plan as of now is to use 3"x2"x.25" rectangular tubing with 1.75"x.365" DOM ends with energy suspension torque rod bushings, #90.7010. Right now my link lengths are drawn up about 36" c-c length. Brackets will be welded to the axle housing and made of .375" and .25" plate which I have a ton of.

I'm going to try and attach a couple pictures of two different ways I have the general bracket shape drawn up, hopefully you guys have some input on them.

the one thing I'm really conflicted on is I got a Dana 80 DRW axle with 4.10's from a friend for basically free. And I originally liked the idea of being a little narrower than a standard DRW since I'll be running 35's with 2" spacers between the rear tires. But it looks like I'll not be able to use a standard DRW bed unless I modify the wheel wells (which wouldn't be that big of deal) but I also would be cutting it really close on clearance to the upper 4Links.

Has anyone ever had experience with widening a rear axle? From what I can find online the rear axle tubing is 4"x.5" DOM, so I'd imagine I could cut the axle and then weld in a 2.5" piece to make it the same width as a standard rear DRW axle. I was thinking I could weld the putt piece in where I'll weld the link brackets on so that the Link brackets essentially act as a gusset where the splice is. What do you guys think? Go that route, run some small spacers (.5"-1") between the inner wheel and hub or swap to a standard DRW axle (which I have yet to find with 4.10's)?

I appreciate any input you guys have. The driving factors for doing this is being able to get rid of the lift blocks, switch to 4.10's, get a better ride and be a better farm truck, tow rig and back up rig to my Dmax.

[bgreen776]

Your 4 link geometry will work well, as will the materials you have specified. Though I would suggest more vertical separation between the upper and lower mounts at the axle and at the frame due to the massive torque diesels create. Also, the upper links are in tension during forward movement, and are far less likely to be damaged, so you can use a lighter material if so desired.

If I may, I'd like to suggest that you seriously consider using a coilover shock instead of bags. You will have a far greater ability to tune the spring rate to your needs and, depending on your shock choice, have full control over your shock valving. Then add some smaller air bags for load control if needed.

Widening the rear axle... that probably isn't worth your time if you do it right. Have you accounted for custom axle shafts when looking at the cost of the conversion?

[307diesel]

Don't cut and lengthen axle tubes, that'd be asking for trouble. If it's on the 96 dodge you can chuck up the drums in a lathe and machine the corner down a little and stock 16" dually wheels will bolt right up. The guy I've welded for for the last 10 years did this on his welding truck back in 01 and it has been flawless since.

[TheBac]

Which software is that?

[Muddin_dude06]

Originally Posted by bgreen776

Widening the rear axle... that probably isn't worth your time if you do it right. Have you accounted for custom axle shafts when looking at the cost of the conversion?

How much more axle separation do you think I need? My upper link mount will be pretty close to the frame at full compression so I'm not sure it can go much higher, and I want to keep the lower link as flat as possible at ride height.

If I was to widen it I'd just make it the right width to use 39" axles from a standard DRW.

I honestly don't really want to widen the cab and chassis DRW I have but it was a thought to gain more clearance for the links and be able to use an unmodified DRW bed for a while.

307diesel are you talking about on the SRW Dana 80 I already have?

Thebac, it's just plain Autocad, I think 2016 version.

[307diesel]

Yes

[J-Pipes]

Originally Posted by 307diesel

Don't cut and lengthen axle tubes, that'd be asking for trouble. If it's on the 96 dodge you can chuck up the drums in a lathe and machine the corner down a little and stock 16" dually wheels will bolt right up. The guy I've welded for for the last 10 years did this on his welding truck back in 01 and it has been flawless since.

Have any pictures, or more details on this dual setup?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[307diesel]

No. But it's really simple and easy to check to see if it's doable. You take the drum and machine the amount necessary so that the hub face of both the drum and rim meet.

[J-Pipes]

Ok, guess I'm just wondering how much needs taken off. Think I'd probably just put it on jack stands, and let it spin in 1st gear, and hit it with a grinder. I'm guessing it work on a 2000 single wheel 80 too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Muddin_dude06]

Originally Posted by 307diesel

No. But it's really simple and easy to check to see if it's doable. You take the drum and machine the amount necessary so that the hub face of both the drum and rim meet.

I'd be tempted to do that but part of why I'm doing this is to swap from 3.55 gears to 4.10. Plus from what I can gather the wheel bearing in the DRW axle are substantially bigger, as well as brakes also.

[307diesel]

Well disregard any input I had of another way to end up with the same outcome for pennies on the dollar. It really makes no difference to me how you do it.

[Muddin_dude06]

You don't have to get crappy dude, I'll take a look at the brake hubs to check it out but it still doesn't change the gear ratio to 4.10, so I wouldn't quite say "the same end result" ...

[malibu795]

..... Following dots.....

[bgreen776]

Originally Posted by Muddin_dude06

How much more axle separation do you think I need? My upper link mount will be pretty close to the frame at full compression so I'm not sure it can go much higher, and I want to keep the lower link as flat as possible at ride height.

I'd just drop the lower link a couple inches. It doesn't take much to make a huge difference in joint life and axle control.

Originally Posted by Muddin_dude06

If I was to widen it I'd just make it the right width to use 39" axles from a standard DRW.

Ah, gotcha.

[malibu795]

Some parts came in
They might be big enough.. well hopefully :baby:



Hopefully I'm not hijacking your thread

[malibu795]

Fwiw
These run a 3/4" bolt the DOM sleeve is .25 wall 2.5" OD 3" long.. with 3.5" wide mounting width with bushing

[Tate]

Here's the geometry on my setup. I'm assuming your application is quite lifted based on your lower link placement. Bag on top of the axle? If you're gonna be placing the bag behind the axle like I did, I'd avoid the setup in your first picture with the link connections ahead of the axle centerline. Directly above and below the axle would be preferred. I've got 12" link separation on the axle, and 6.5" on the frame end.

[Muddin_dude06]

Originally Posted by malibu795

Fwiw
These run a 3/4" bolt the DOM sleeve is .25 wall 2.5" OD 3" long.. with 3.5" wide mounting width with bushing

Those are massive, where did you get them?

[Muddin_dude06]

Originally Posted by Tate

Here's the geometry on my setup. I'm assuming your application is quite lifted based on your lower link placement. Bag on top of the axle? If you're gonna be placing the bag behind the axle like I did, I'd avoid the setup in your first picture with the link connections ahead of the axle centerline. Directly above and below the axle would be preferred. I've got 12" link separation on the axle, and 6.5" on the frame end.

Yes sir that's the plan. I'm lifting it 5" in the front so I figure 3" taller in the rear should work. I agree , I drew that first one up because that's pretty similar to the '14 setup but it just seems like it won't be a good fit for mine. How does yours ride with that much anti squat? So your bags handle all the weights you ask of it? Thanks man

[Tate]

Rides like a dream. I haven't had more than say 2k lbs. in it since I've done the suspension, but its been great. Tows just fine, the little that I've done.