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11-12-2008, 09:34 PM
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#41
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Name: Bad-Duvall
Title: MOST HATED
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Perryville, Mo/Saint louis
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Posts: 1,419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bh10
How many miles do you have? IMO Id rather spend the money on pushrods then tappets.
And also when it comes to cams Id go w/ someone who will build a cam with your specs in mind
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Why?
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11-12-2008, 09:37 PM
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#42
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Name: bh10
Title: Web Wrencher
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Iowa, now in Georgia, again
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Posts: 1,974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Duvall
Why?
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Why what?
__________________
14 CTD
95 12v
Big Thanks To PURE DIESEL POWER CSnyder @ Snyder Motorsports
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11-13-2008, 06:18 AM
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#43
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Name: Bad-Duvall
Title: MOST HATED
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Perryville, Mo/Saint louis
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Posts: 1,419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bh10
Why what?
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Why would you rather spend the money on push tubes then tappets? That makes no sence to me. What we are talking about is can wear and how to prevent it yes it is good practis to chage push tubes when changing tappets but not as critical as the tappets. I just want to get to the bottom on why the cams are failing in the common rail trucks? I might also add its not just one cam supplyer its all of them!!
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11-13-2008, 06:52 AM
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#44
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Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posts: 16,950
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Well guys, thanks for the advice..
Like I said earlier...My Whole motor, block, etc has to come Out and Apart to go to the machine shop to get a make over....Had a boo boo!!
So new tappets will be ordered...I might even do push tubes....
I just want to do this ONCE and do it right!!!
It will be a Helix 2 cam going in....I've got the Ham. springs already....It would only make sense to have new tappets at least...
Thanks again guys....I'll keep you posted on the progress and results...
I can't stand my baby being hurt like this!!!
__________________
-HIS
-2017 991.2 Turbo S GT Silver w/ Bordeaux Red / Black
-2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE - 6MT - Sharkskin Metallic
-2006 Honda S2000 - SOS Supercharged - 397 whp - Silverstone Metallic
-2016 RAM 2500 MegaCab Diesel - Silver (Tuned)
-HERS
-2019 718 Boxster S - Miami Blue 6MT, Cobb Tune, Soul, Ohlins,
-2014 958.1 Cayenne S - Umber Metallic / Luxor Beige
-2013 Honda Civic S.i.Coupe - 6MT
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11-13-2008, 07:08 AM
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#45
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Name: dzlfarmboy
Title: Supporting Vendor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Posts: 2,448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Swole
Well guys, thanks for the advice..
Like I said earlier...My Whole motor, block, etc has to come Out and Apart to go to the machine shop to get a make over....Had a boo boo!!
So new tappets will be ordered...I might even do push tubes....
I just want to do this ONCE and do it right!!!
It will be a Helix 2 cam going in....I've got the Ham. springs already....It would only make sense to have new tappets at least...
Thanks again guys....I'll keep you posted on the progress and results...
I can't stand my baby being hurt like this!!!
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Yeah If your engine is out I would def put new tappets in, It would't be anymore work. What kind of boo boo did we have? An expensive one I see.
__________________
F1 Diesel,HTT,Goerend Trans,410-490-6075
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11-13-2008, 07:10 AM
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#46
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Name: triton
Title: Scarlet Fever
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
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Posts: 5,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Duvall
Why would you rather spend the money on push tubes then tappets? That makes no sence to me. What we are talking about is can wear and how to prevent it yes it is good practis to chage push tubes when changing tappets but not as critical as the tappets. I just want to get to the bottom on why the cams are failing in the common rail trucks? I might also add its not just one cam supplyer its all of them!!
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I'd think if there were a bunch of cams failing... there'd be a lot more talk about it. I've not seen anyone... recently anyway claim their cam has failed. I've also not seen any aftermarket tappets that claim to be better than stock. You say there's wear after 10 miles so what's going to be different if they're changed ? In 10 miles they'll be worn again.
Since I've changed to 110lbs springs a billet tubes, I do expect more than normal wear but, see no reason to upgrade tappets although the one's I have are only a year old. Guess I'll find out once I pull the cam.
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11-13-2008, 07:13 AM
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#47
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Name: Bad-Duvall
Title: MOST HATED
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Perryville, Mo/Saint louis
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,419
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By you takin the motor out you just saved your self lots-o-headach. lets just say you must be very very skilled to get the tappets back in.
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11-13-2008, 07:30 AM
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#48
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Name: Bad-Duvall
Title: MOST HATED
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Perryville, Mo/Saint louis
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Posts: 1,419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triton
I'd think if there were a bunch of cams failing... there'd be a lot more talk about it. I've not seen anyone... recently anyway claim their cam has failed. I've also not seen any aftermarket tappets that claim to be better than stock. You say there's wear after 10 miles so what's going to be different if they're changed ? In 10 miles they'll be worn again.
Since I've changed to 110lbs springs a billet tubes, I do expect more than normal wear but, see no reason to upgrade tappets although the one's I have are only a year old. Guess I'll find out once I pull the cam.
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I dont mean that there are up-graded tappets the the stock tappets are fine. but said cam and said tappets are unique like finger prints and once they have ran together they will always have that patten in them. so what i mean with that is they are pairs like a bering and race you cant just change one.
Like i said i have pulled several after market cams they all look similar the nose of the cam pitting/flaking. there is a cause maby its hardness maby its the lack of zink.
Also in the last 2 years how many cams do you know of that have been installed ran 10,000+ mi then removed?
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11-13-2008, 07:38 AM
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#49
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Name: dzlfarmboy
Title: Supporting Vendor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Posts: 2,448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Duvall
By you takin the motor out you just saved your self lots-o-headach. lets just say you must be very very skilled to get the tappets back in.
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Yeah their tedious, A little 8mm Snap On bore scope camera comes in real handy to see down the push tube hole. That and having the engine parallel to the floor helps the plumb bob plug go in the hole a lil easier.
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F1 Diesel,HTT,Goerend Trans,410-490-6075
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11-13-2008, 07:54 AM
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#50
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Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,950
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I can def. see the point of having 2 brand new serfaces mating to each other during break in...That makes perfect since for those two to run together from the start...
I melted a piston ( #4) and the block is a little screwed too....Jeff looked at it when I got it all down.....I had to leave Tues. night to be on duty Wed and today...Going back down Friday, but I think Jeff was going to go ahead and get the block all the way out and start tarring it down to send to the machine shop....Ugh!!
So, with the block already out, Is it still hard to remove / replace the tappets????
Is there any REAL reason (performance or reliability wise) that I should change the push rods??? Don't need to spend anymore than nessessary for Obvious reasons!!!!!
Thanks!!
__________________
-HIS
-2017 991.2 Turbo S GT Silver w/ Bordeaux Red / Black
-2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE - 6MT - Sharkskin Metallic
-2006 Honda S2000 - SOS Supercharged - 397 whp - Silverstone Metallic
-2016 RAM 2500 MegaCab Diesel - Silver (Tuned)
-HERS
-2019 718 Boxster S - Miami Blue 6MT, Cobb Tune, Soul, Ohlins,
-2014 958.1 Cayenne S - Umber Metallic / Luxor Beige
-2013 Honda Civic S.i.Coupe - 6MT
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11-13-2008, 08:38 AM
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#51
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Name: dzlfarmboy
Title: Supporting Vendor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Posts: 2,448
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No there will be no more labor involved installing new tappets, you have to remove the old ones if taking the block to a machine shop. With the Hamiltons Springs stiffer pushrods might be needed. But the Sportsman springs dont cause and push rod deflection.
Man those CR's are hell on pistons.
__________________
F1 Diesel,HTT,Goerend Trans,410-490-6075
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11-13-2008, 08:50 AM
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#52
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Name: Bad-Duvall
Title: MOST HATED
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Perryville, Mo/Saint louis
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,419
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the only reasone i see is if you go back with a re-grind cam then you may need .100 longer push tubes.
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11-13-2008, 08:54 AM
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#53
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Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Duvall
the only reasone i see is if you go back with a re-grind cam then you may need .100 longer push tubes.
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The Helix 2 is done from a blank, Right???
Not gonna do a regrind....
__________________
-HIS
-2017 991.2 Turbo S GT Silver w/ Bordeaux Red / Black
-2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE - 6MT - Sharkskin Metallic
-2006 Honda S2000 - SOS Supercharged - 397 whp - Silverstone Metallic
-2016 RAM 2500 MegaCab Diesel - Silver (Tuned)
-HERS
-2019 718 Boxster S - Miami Blue 6MT, Cobb Tune, Soul, Ohlins,
-2014 958.1 Cayenne S - Umber Metallic / Luxor Beige
-2013 Honda Civic S.i.Coupe - 6MT
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11-13-2008, 08:57 AM
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#54
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Name: Bad-Duvall
Title: MOST HATED
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Perryville, Mo/Saint louis
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Posts: 1,419
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Right!
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11-13-2008, 09:56 AM
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#55
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Name: Soup Nazi
Title: The artist formerly known as Don M
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1,197
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A couple if things that have happend over the summer has changed our ideas and policy on "drop-in" cams. Meaning installing a Helix 2 cam without changing the tappets.
In the early days we had either stock, Enterprise Engine, or Pro/Sportman Springs. All 3 of these springs have been very successful with our program of installing the Helix cams and using your old tappets. Saving time and energy on a cam install. Simplification was the idea.
Higher spring pressures (as of late) with a new cam and used tappets is starting to take its toll. The failures are still considered rare, but we have replaced 5 cams this past 6 months. In all the years since 2004, we have had no returns for worn lobes.
This is a direct result of higher spring pressures and todays oils having less of the good things we need to cut wear down for environmental concerns.
We now require that new tappets be installed if you are going to run high spring pressures. If you use stock, Enterprise Engine, or Pro/sportsman springs you can skip the new tappets and continue as always.
__________________
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11-13-2008, 10:03 AM
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#56
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Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soup Nazi
A couple if things that have happend over the summer has changed our ideas and policy on "drop-in" cams. Meaning installing a Helix 2 cam without changing the tappets.
In the early days we had either stock, Enterprise Engine, or Pro/Sportman Springs. All 3 of these springs have been very successful with our program of installing the Helix cams and using your old tappets. Saving time and energy on a cam install. Simplification was the idea.
Higher spring pressures (as of late) with a new cam and used tappets is starting to take its toll. The failures are still considered rare, but we have replaced 5 cams this past 6 months. In all the years since 2004, we have had no returns for worn lobes.
This is a direct result of higher spring pressures and todays oils having less of the good things we need to cut wear down for environmental concerns.
We now require that new tappets be installed if you are going to run high spring pressures. If you use stock, Enterprise Engine, or Pro/sportsman springs you can skip the new tappets and continue as always.
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Thank you Don for clarification on this!!
I can't wait to get your cam in there and the biggers injectors!!
I've seen some really big numbers from people using the combo with the air I'll have......Thanks again!!
__________________
-HIS
-2017 991.2 Turbo S GT Silver w/ Bordeaux Red / Black
-2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE - 6MT - Sharkskin Metallic
-2006 Honda S2000 - SOS Supercharged - 397 whp - Silverstone Metallic
-2016 RAM 2500 MegaCab Diesel - Silver (Tuned)
-HERS
-2019 718 Boxster S - Miami Blue 6MT, Cobb Tune, Soul, Ohlins,
-2014 958.1 Cayenne S - Umber Metallic / Luxor Beige
-2013 Honda Civic S.i.Coupe - 6MT
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11-13-2008, 10:18 AM
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#57
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Name: triton
Title: Scarlet Fever
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,497
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soup Nazi
A couple if things that have happend over the summer has changed our ideas and policy on "drop-in" cams. Meaning installing a Helix 2 cam without changing the tappets.
In the early days we had either stock, Enterprise Engine, or Pro/Sportman Springs. All 3 of these springs have been very successful with our program of installing the Helix cams and using your old tappets. Saving time and energy on a cam install. Simplification was the idea.
Higher spring pressures (as of late) with a new cam and used tappets is starting to take its toll. The failures are still considered rare, but we have replaced 5 cams this past 6 months. In all the years since 2004, we have had no returns for worn lobes.
This is a direct result of higher spring pressures and todays oils having less of the good things we need to cut wear down for environmental concerns.
We now require that new tappets be installed if you are going to run high spring pressures. If you use stock, Enterprise Engine, or Pro/sportsman springs you can skip the new tappets and continue as always.
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Thanks for clarifying. If you could answer one more question plz. Since my lifters have been mated with your cam for over a year now, ( that sounded ) they're obviously matched as far as wear. Since I now have the 110lbs springs, how do you think that will effect their wear on the cam / lifters ?
also what metals would show high in a oil analysis if the cam were wearing ?
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11-13-2008, 10:30 AM
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#58
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Name: Big Swole
Title: MegaInterceptor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 16,950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triton
Since my lifters have been mated with your cam for over a year now, ( that sounded )
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LMAO!!
That did sound a little Sweet Ty!!!! lol
__________________
-HIS
-2017 991.2 Turbo S GT Silver w/ Bordeaux Red / Black
-2023 Camaro 2SS 1LE - 6MT - Sharkskin Metallic
-2006 Honda S2000 - SOS Supercharged - 397 whp - Silverstone Metallic
-2016 RAM 2500 MegaCab Diesel - Silver (Tuned)
-HERS
-2019 718 Boxster S - Miami Blue 6MT, Cobb Tune, Soul, Ohlins,
-2014 958.1 Cayenne S - Umber Metallic / Luxor Beige
-2013 Honda Civic S.i.Coupe - 6MT
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11-13-2008, 10:52 AM
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#59
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Name: DrSpeed
Title: Unregistered User
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bellingham, WA
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Posts: 893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camotanker
I just got running a helix 2 with 50,000 miles on it over 2 years. In my opinion, I ran this truck pretty hard all the time and the cam came out better than I could have ever imagined. Since the motor is out, I'm sending the cam and tappets back to him for his inspection with a fine tooth comb.
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11-13-2008, 12:53 PM
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#60
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Name: Soup Nazi
Title: The artist formerly known as Don M
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triton
Thanks for clarifying. If you could answer one more question plz. Since my lifters have been mated with your cam for over a year now, ( that sounded ) they're obviously matched as far as wear. Since I now have the 110lbs springs, how do you think that will effect their wear on the cam / lifters ?
also what metals would show high in a oil analysis if the cam were wearing ?
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I think that new tappets with a new cam and everything will be fine in your case.
Oil additives containing moly, phos, and zinc ar a great idea for cam wear.
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