A 1.6 tdci mini compound build [an attempt]

F

Fordy McFord

New member
Hello everyone, newcomer here (please don't ban me for my low displacement shenanigans), on a quest for fun odd stuff so if anyone can give me a few pointers on my micro diesel compound lump idea i would greatly appreciate it!
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Currently i'm trying to measure thrice before cutting, for the introduction part, the engine in question is a TDCI 1.6 16v turbo diesel, more info about it can be found here [Ford DLD engine - Wikipedia ; the exact name judging by the year and type would be DV6-TED4 and comes with a vnt turbo [GT1544v] and has a whopping 110HP with 240Nm of torque.
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Many projects on this engine consist of just slapping a big single turbo and going well beyond 200hp+ range and into double of the aforementioned stock torque, which is neat. My weird self decided it would be fun to do it in a compound setup with just shy over 200hp rather than going overboard getting ALL the power, its just my preference of having a wide powerband and not sacrificing the lower end for the top end (of which there isn't much since 5k rpm is the limit).
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My initial idea was to combine a gtd1244vz to have a unrealistic earlier spool (since gt1544v starts the fun at 2k rpm), with a GT2056 for the low pressure turbo. The other idea was using the stock 1544v as is but modify the vnt for earlier spool with also 2056 as the low pressure turbo. Looking at the compressor maps the combinations are doable but im unsure of how to scale their whole compounding thing, need to do some math on that part to figure out how much air i need for a bigger bang just to be sure.
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It's just a fun idea im working on so any tip would help, im just sitting on a lot of spare parts like these semi old/modern turbos and engines so i thought it would be interesting to try a mini compound turbo setup. Everyone is welcome to spitball/eyeball the engineering of this one :charger:
 
The gt2056 is rated 140-260hp, sounds like a good match to your goal. Maybe go bigger. On the secondary, I wouldn't go smaller than stock. It's all personal preference, build it how you want it. Sounds like a fun project, get after it.
 
Sure thing, please do elaborate why not go lower on high pressure turbo.
The 1244vz is used by many as a single turbo upgrade to this engine and with the right injectors it can reach as far as 180hp as is, which is kinda neat and you dont sacrifice low end for the top end since its a turbo with variable geometry vanes. I would go for it purely for the vgt part to achieve max early easy spool and maybe pair it with that 2056 somewhere in the middle, now the issue im facing is what on earth would be the end absolute pressure on intake to achieve above 200hp. By my estimate it should be about 3 bar at most but i digress.
 
Boost pressure isn't what makes power, it's volume. I'm just saying that so you don't get too hung up on boost pressure numbers.
 
The 1544v starts doing something after hitting 2k rpm but drops dead after 3.5-4k, typical econobox setup of riding the golden middle ground of everything.

As for what im wanting or expecting for each stage, thats a bit hard to answer. Ideally i would like for the HP turbo to start as low as possible and carry up to the middle of the rev range as best as possible possible where the LP turbo could take over in a healthy way without jerking the car in the whole transition of power.

Judging by the 1544v map (i cant seem to find 1244vz proper map which is frustrating me to death) it can produce the right amount of air flow of 6lb/min which is good for 130ish hp at about 1.5 pressure ratio, and the gt2056 can deliver 11lb/min of air resulting in about 230ish hp at 1.4 pressure ratio.

Sooo my math may be wrong but do correct me just in case, if the LP turbo inlet is at atmospheric pressure of 14psi (deducting some psi due to elevation and not rounding it up to 15), at top power producing moment it should be like, LP turbo gets 14psi and sends 20ish psi to HP turbo which compresses it then to 30psi and sends it to the poor poor engine to try and make 230ish hp give or take.

Not sure of interstage intercooling but for now im set on a bigger fmic.
Not sure of exhaust piping like, should i keep them turbos as close together and as close to the exhaust manifold, oil feed is kinda confusing but splitting the feed is acceptable as both turbos would be doing minimal loads but that leads the drain, i believe it should drain separately, correct me if im wrong there.
As for the staged expectations i think you can deduce the scaling from the top most ideal power figure, i hope i wrote things clearly, im not really an expert on anything other than theories for now.
 
mhuggler said:
Boost pressure isn't what makes power, it's volume. I'm just saying that so you don't get too hung up on boost pressure numbers.
Click to expand...

Yeah its incredibly tricky to not mix things up, i used to think pressure is king but after reading a thing or two here and there i stood corrected, volume is king, pressure can be baby like as long as you do it right.:lolly:
 
I'd start using the stock charger your used to, and experiment with different low pressure chargers.
 
jasonc said:
I'd start using the stock charger your used to, and experiment with different low pressure chargers.
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Well, it is a good point since i can do away with any fabrication on the exhaust header but at the same time the 1244 is a bolt on as well, just newer gen turbo. The only problem is i cant find any reliable info on it being so new so im left with the good ol' oldies like 1544 and 2056 combo.
 
Cowboys4Christ said:
When does your current stock turbo light?

How much boost are you wanting each stage to make?
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True, but boost does change how much air a engine is able to pump. Generally the more boost, the more air a engine can pump. I believe it's also good to know desired pressure to help figure out how much air the engine can move.

But, in order for that to work one needs to know the pumping efficiency of the engine. Weather it 70% 75% 80% and so on.

Boost is also a sign of restriction, but boost can help with restriction as well.
 
Cowboys4Christ said:
True, but boost does change how much air a engine is able to pump. Generally the more boost, the more air a engine can pump. I believe it's also good to know desired pressure to help figure out how much air the engine can move.



But, in order for that to work one needs to know the pumping efficiency of the engine. Weather it 70% 75% 80% and so on.



Boost is also a sign of restriction, but boost can help with restriction as well.
Click to expand...
This is an explanation from the opposite end of the same tube. Now look at it from the perspective of flow. In an imaginary system you can pump fluids from one place to another with no friction. In the real world, every surface and bend in direction or diameter change the moving mass encounters is a restriction, and the total of these restrictions are what we measure as pressure.
For a pumping system to maintain the same flow through a restriction, the velocity must increase. Also, the greater the pressure differential from one side of the restriction to the other, the higher the velocity. This action is what we call boost. We increase the flow into the system, knowing we have resistance to the flow, in hopes of hitting our target inlet flow at the consumer.

Essentially, you can make 10 lbs boost humming through a kazoo, or you can make 10lbs boost pushing air into a mine shaft. The flow is vastly different.



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biggy238 said:
Essentially, you can make 10 lbs boost humming through a kazoo, or you can make 10lbs boost pushing air into a mine shaft. The flow is vastly different.
Click to expand...

Right here. This is what I was trying to point out. Boost is nothing but resistance to flow. It’s nice to have a standard to use as a reference point, but that’s all it’s good for.
 
Soo, my comment here:

Fordy McFord said:
The 1544v starts doing something after hitting 2k rpm but drops dead after 3.5-4k, typical econobox setup of riding the golden middle ground of everything.

As for what im wanting or expecting for each stage, thats a bit hard to answer. Ideally i would like for the HP turbo to start as low as possible and carry up to the middle of the rev range as best as possible possible where the LP turbo could take over in a healthy way without jerking the car in the whole transition of power.

Judging by the 1544v map (i cant seem to find 1244vz proper map which is frustrating me to death) it can produce the right amount of air flow of 6lb/min which is good for 130ish hp at about 1.5 pressure ratio, and the gt2056 can deliver 11lb/min of air resulting in about 230ish hp at 1.4 pressure ratio.

Sooo my math may be wrong but do correct me just in case, if the LP turbo inlet is at atmospheric pressure of 14psi (deducting some psi due to elevation and not rounding it up to 15), at top power producing moment it should be like, LP turbo gets 14psi and sends 20ish psi to HP turbo which compresses it then to 30psi and sends it to the poor poor engine to try and make 230ish hp give or take.

Not sure of interstage intercooling but for now im set on a bigger fmic.
Not sure of exhaust piping like, should i keep them turbos as close together and as close to the exhaust manifold, oil feed is kinda confusing but splitting the feed is acceptable as both turbos would be doing minimal loads but that leads the drain, i believe it should drain separately, correct me if im wrong there.
As for the staged expectations i think you can deduce the scaling from the top most ideal power figure, i hope i wrote things clearly, im not really an expert on anything other than theories for now.
Click to expand...

with the info of those turbos here:

gt1544v Garrett GT15 Turbocharger Specs

gt2056 Garrett GT20 - GT2056 Turbocharger Specs

given that im talking about this dld-416 engine:
Ford DLD engine - Wikipedia

am i on the right track with my estimate/thinking?
 
I just wanted to add if anyone can get a hold of any detailed info about the garret gtd1244vz turbo i would greatly appreciate the help, i cant seem to find the map nor anything anywhere for some reason, it may be under a different name idk.
 
Just to add this third question to the mix as i don't know much about it, forged pistons and conrods for diesels, are there any aftermarket manufacturers (at least for conrods, pistons may be able to survive a lot)? I got a bore/stroke of 75,0mm/88,3mm.
 
Check out Brian Crower and see if they offer anything useful. I'm not in a place where I can do much digging ATM. Do you know if the rods have common dimensions with anything else?

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