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General Diesel Tech Farm equipment, Medium Duty, Big Rigs, and other General discussion can be found in here. |
08-01-2018, 08:33 AM
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#1
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
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N14 celect issues
We have a N14 celect that is missing under load. It seems to clear up above 1500rpm, and it doesn’t do it at idle, or when free revving it. I have unplugged injectors whole it’s idling, but all 6 make it miss. Temps on the exhaust manifold seem to vary between 120-200, with most hovering around the 130 range, and #4 being the only one distinctly higher at 200F.
Engine number is 11740205, Best I can tell from the tag.
Anyone have any trouble shooting advise?
Thanks,
Eric
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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08-01-2018, 08:38 AM
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#2
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
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Posts: 18,832
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It's a pain in the ass, but being that I'm sure you have at least one bad injector.
I've had customers that will purchase one injector, pick a cylinder and replace it. If that doesn't work. Put the one you just removed into the next cylinder, and so on until you hit the correct cylinder. Depending on mileage, you may want to think about buying 6, and be done. Cummins usually has a buy 6 get one free rebate going on.
Last edited by Snedge; 08-01-2018 at 08:41 AM.
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08-01-2018, 09:05 AM
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#3
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
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This truck doesn’t get driven a lot, it’s got a 5000 gallon manure tanker on the back of it, so it spends most of its time in the barn when we can’t spread. Gets used twice a year, maybe no more than 1,000 miles a year. But a lot of them are field miles spent running wide open.
I was thinking it was an injector as well, which sucks because we put 6 new injectors in it a couple years ago.
Thanks for the info snedge. Looks like we might just have to buy one and start swapping.
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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08-01-2018, 10:45 AM
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#4
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 18,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfsuper90
Thanks for the info snedge. Looks like we might just have to buy one and start swapping.
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That's about the only way to do it.
The miss/Stumble usually happens so fast that Insite won't pick it up, and cutting out cylinders during a road test is worthless. Insite allows us to do a cylinder performance test that will sometime smoke out the bad cylinder, but mostly we end up doing the process of elimination method. We can swap an N14 injector in under an hour in most cases, but it can still be time consuming.
If the truck sets for awhile, you could always pull all six and send them out for testing.
Last edited by Snedge; 08-01-2018 at 10:54 AM.
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08-02-2018, 09:20 AM
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#5
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
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Can just about any competent injection service test them?
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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08-02-2018, 11:28 AM
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#6
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 18,832
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We use Diesel Controls over in Massillon Ohio
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08-03-2018, 08:04 AM
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#7
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snedge
We use Diesel Controls over in Massillon Ohio
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That’s not too far. We bought the injectors from mountaineer diesel
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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08-07-2018, 06:17 PM
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#8
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
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While we are on the n14 issues, sometimes both of our trucks with n14s roll for a very long time before they start. I briefly watched a video awhile ago that show a fuel fitting getting plugged up causing hard starts. Is this valid?
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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08-07-2018, 07:44 PM
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#9
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Name: bracker8040
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 818
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Yes, that is accurate. The one fitting by the ECM is a check valve. If anything gets in that check valve and causes it to stick open the fuel will drain back and cause an extended crank after they’ve sat for a bit. It’s been about 8 years ago that I dealt with it on an N14 Celect Plus that I had.
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08-07-2018, 10:08 PM
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#10
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
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That makes sense, cause they always start if you crank them long enough.
Thanks for the help
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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08-08-2018, 07:05 AM
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#11
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Name: bracker8040
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 818
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On my N14 the fuel filter was on the back of the pump which meant the fuel was not filtered when it came thru that check valve. Mine had a piece of what looked like coating off of a wire stuck in it holding it open. An old Cummins mechanic got me all the parts (except 1 line I had to get made) to put a stand-alone fuel dampener on the pump, and move the filter up stream to where the fuel was filtered when it came thru the check valve. All OE parts, cost about $250, took a couple hours to do, and made a world of difference in how it started, and never had to mess with it again.
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08-08-2018, 10:04 AM
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#12
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Name: raychem
Title: Not enough time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 476
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Run the motor and use an inferred thermometer on the manifold and to check each cylinder. A good way to test and see which cylinder may be giving you a problem.
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09-08-2018, 03:02 PM
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#13
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
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Sent them up to diesel controls, one bad injector and two on the verge of going out. Being as new as they were, I was advised to check out the fuel filter situation. Turns out someone put a filter delete on the pump filter, and only used the water separator as a filter. Only 12 micron
So we reinstalled a 5 micron on the pump filter. Napa 3406, does anyone have a cross reference for a 2 micron filter that will fit the same?
I also took both fittings out of the fuel cooler behind the ECM and neither fitting had a check valve in it
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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09-08-2018, 04:59 PM
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#14
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Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
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Posts: 3,162
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Recmmended filter is a FS1000, Donaldson version is P551000 and is 10 micron, I’m not sure I would want to go much smaller as they can restrict flow.
There is a P551311 that is 3 micron that says it is same flow as P551000, if need be run that one on the pump if you have room and the 1000 on the frame mounted filter.
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09-09-2018, 05:37 PM
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#15
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
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Well after taking it for a drive, it seems to lack the power it previously had. Do you think the 5 micron could be restricting it, or if the injectors were not setup properly could that cause it as well? I was having trouble finding someone to tell me how to properly install the injectors. We set the valves and torqued the injector to 105 in lb.
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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09-09-2018, 05:46 PM
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#16
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Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,162
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I think it’s the Napa filter restricting it, not the micron.
I cannot run Napa filters on the engine in my puller.
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09-09-2018, 07:52 PM
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#17
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
|
Interesting, according to the interweb the 3406 filter will flow 12-15gpm. Is that not enough?
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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09-09-2018, 08:57 PM
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#18
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Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,162
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfsuper90
Interesting, according to the interweb the 3406 filter will flow 12-15gpm. Is that not enough?
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No way it flows that much, the Donaldson filters I mention flow 111gph, that is under 2gpm.
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09-10-2018, 10:33 AM
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#19
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Name: mfsuper90
Title: 300ft is all I need
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Southeast ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 769
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT
No way it flows that much, the Donaldson filters I mention flow 111gph, that is under 2gpm.
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I got the 12-15 directly off a wix website. I think I’ll try putting the filter block off back on it and see if that brings it to life. If it doesn’t I know the filter isn’t the problem.
Thanks smokincat. I’ll let you know what I find out.
__________________
’82 300D benz Bosch MW turned up, HX30, W/A Intercooler
MF Super 90 various odds and ends done. Farm stocker
MF 98 3-71 screaming jimmy. Needs N90's. Another farm stock
'14 Ram Anarchy EFI, G56
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09-10-2018, 10:43 AM
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#20
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Name: JWhite
Title: Trained monkey
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: F Burg Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,817
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At what pressure does it state that flow? Wix might make Napa filters, but they're not the same.
__________________
GMC with a LiLLY
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