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Old 02-14-2018, 03:45 PM   #1
TTR 21
 
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Turbo Shaft/Bearing Comparison

I keep seeing a lot of posts about all these modified stock Holset turbos and how a lot of people love them, but also hear about how a lot of people have failures with them. I decided to show a comparison of the difference between a HX/HE Holset shaft and its bearings compared to a Industrial PhatShaft unit that we use in our turbos that are also a direct replacement turbo. As you can see the PhatShaft shafts and bearings we use are much much larger and stronger. You also get a dual groove oil bearing and heavy duty sintered steel 360* thrust rather than a cheaper brass one. The reason a lot of these modified factory Holset turbos fail is pretty evident in the pictures. Hopefully this will help people make a better decision when selecting their next turbo.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:28 PM   #2
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I really don't want to start a war, but that's kind of an apples to oranges comparison given the contrast in turbine size. I would certainly expect the shaft and bearings to be much larger as well.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhuggler View Post
I really don't want to start a war, but that's kind of an apples to oranges comparison given the contrast in turbine size. I would certainly expect the shaft and bearings to be much larger as well.
disregard turbine size completely. Even the HX40 larger turbine wheel which is commonly used has the exact same size shaft and bearings. But now you just add more weight and even less reliability to such a small shaft and bearing assembly.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:45 PM   #4
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So why don't we see many bearing failures in isx cm2250s/cm2350s, 8.3L, Ism egr, ISL, ISC, case ih apps with the h1E, etc. ?
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:01 PM   #5
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So why don't we see many bearing failures in isx cm2250s/cm2350s, 8.3L, Ism egr, ISL, ISC, case ih apps with the h1E, etc. ?
Because those are not modified from their originally designed form. I'm strictly talking about modified Holsets on Dodge Cummins pickups like I stated in the main post. Holsets in factory form are very durable chargers in all applications. i'm not knocking Holset one bit. But a modified holset being pushed past the limitations they were designed for become very unreliable.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:07 PM   #6
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So is it the quality of workmanship or the bearing and shaft size? You need to pick one generalization at a time to expound upon.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:37 PM   #7
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He said or implied nothing about quality or workmanship being an issue.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:47 PM   #8
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So the generalization being made is that all modified holsets on dodge cummins trucks are unreliable? I'm confused. First it was due to shaft size/bearing size. Now it's something different is all. Carry on. don't mind me.

For the record I'm not a massive fan of the modified stock chargers past a certain point either. It isn't because of reliability issues, though.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfaylor View Post
So the generalization being made is that all modified holsets on dodge cummins trucks are unreliable? I'm confused. First it was due to shaft size/bearing size. Now it's something different is all. Carry on. don't mind me.

For the record I'm not a massive fan of the modified stock chargers past a certain point either. It isn't because of reliability issues, though.
Well geez Zach now Im all nervous to run that modded he351 you sent me... maybe I should spend twice the cash for a polish housing
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTR 21 View Post
disregard turbine size completely. Even the HX40 larger turbine wheel which is commonly used has the exact same size shaft and bearings. But now you just add more weight and even less reliability to such a small shaft and bearing assembly.
To each his own, I guess. I've run the hx40's as well as a couple different phat shaft turbos. They all have their ups and downs, but I've never had a turbo fail, including holsets, so I can't really argue over which one is stronger.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
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To each his own, I guess. I've run the hx40's as well as a couple different phat shaft turbos. They all have their ups and downs, but I've never had a turbo fail, including holsets, so I can't really argue over which one is stronger.
Depends on applications and shaft speeds.

Most common cause of turbo failure is the dumb a$$ behind the wheel, and having blown one myself from loosing an intercooler boost and over speeding it from 50+ psi to 0 in a flash I'll put myself in that category.

The whole 300 vs 400 shaft debate is frankly stupid especially when talking singles and spraying.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:14 AM   #12
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Depends on applications and shaft speeds.

Most common cause of turbo failure is the dumb a$$ behind the wheel, and having blown one myself from loosing an intercooler boost and over speeding it from 50+ psi to 0 in a flash I'll put myself in that category.

The whole 300 vs 400 shaft debate is frankly stupid especially when talking singles and spraying.
This. Everything will fail when treated with total disregard. Frankly we have had more out of the box borg stuff fail than everything else combined. Including VGT failures...
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:40 AM   #13
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Hey look at those "proprietary" bearings!

Tell us what's the difference in your phatshaft turbos compared to say a factory borg s300.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:45 AM   #14
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Also I would like to know what's the difference between the other two and your silver series turbos. Looks like a regular "phatshaft" with a polished housing. Must be something different inside to to cost a extra 100 bucks for a rebuild. Guys like to know why stuff is better. Could possibly sell more stuff if we knew why its better.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:30 PM   #15
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Marketing teams and sales men don’t divulge company secrets. Without marketing how would they sell anything.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:06 PM   #16
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Hey look at those "proprietary" bearings!

Tell us what's the difference in your phatshaft turbos compared to say a factory borg s300.
Everything we upgrade is all public knowledge that we post. We aren't hiding anything. Here are the difference between a box s300 and our Silver series turbos.


DUAL OIL GROOVE BEARINGS
Phatshaft turbos come with dual oil groove bearings, which provides for a more stable rotor under high boost, and more oil flow for a complete bearing lubrication.

360 THRUST BEARING
360 thrust bearings are included in all PhatShaft turbochargers. The Silver Bullet Phatshaft has an upgraded steel 360 thrust bearing.

ADJUSTABLE BOOST CONTROL ELBOW
Give you easy and flexible adjustment to get the power you are looking for.

INTERNALLY WASTE GATED
Safe towing power that will not over spin the turbo, and the best option for a daily driven diesel pickup.

CHAMFERED COMPRESSOR INLET
We do this for maximized air flow and reduce turbulence.

MAX TRAVEL SIDE COVER
All Silver Bullets include a Max Travel Side Cover. This allows the internal waste gate to open completely and reduces stuck waste gate valves.


OVERSIZED WASTE GATE PORTS
All Silver Bullets have oversized waste gate ports. This lessens turbo back pressure for high performance trucks and allows for a higher flowing and more efficient turbocharger system.

APPLICATION FITMENT
Direct bolt on applications allowing for ease of install and less down time. Comes with factory oil line system adapters.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:08 PM   #17
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Also I would like to know what's the difference between the other two and your silver series turbos. Looks like a regular "phatshaft" with a polished housing. Must be something different inside to to cost a extra 100 bucks for a rebuild. Guys like to know why stuff is better. Could possibly sell more stuff if we knew why its better.
Here is a link to each of the turbo options including the PhatShaft, Viper, Super PhatShaft, and Silver Series so you can see all the differences. Turbine wheel size is the main difference but the Silver series has a few extra upgrades.

Turbos
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:47 PM   #18
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So tell me what's different in the turbos that would cost 100 bucks more to rebuild a silver over a phatshaft. Let's not talk turbine or compressor. Inside. Because I called about getting a phatshaft rebuilt and it was 450. Then a silver was 550. That is starting on both. No extras for turbines or compressor.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:53 PM   #19
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Well all know they both have 360* thrust and dual oil grove bearings, which is misleading anyway. Oil grove on the outside and inside of the bearing is what it is. My cheap 100 buck rebuild with the steel thrust has these bearings in it too. So what else is different? Besides your "proprietary" bearings.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:42 PM   #20
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Well all know they both have 360* thrust and dual oil grove bearings, which is misleading anyway. Oil grove on the outside and inside of the bearing is what it is. My cheap 100 buck rebuild with the steel thrust has these bearings in it too. So what else is different? Besides your "proprietary" bearings.
The shafts in the Silver Series turbos are larger which require a different bearing set. We use a custom 330 shaft that Borg builds for us specifically for the Silver Series turbos and Thunder 330 turbos
.
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