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07-31-2017, 07:23 AM
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#1
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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Info on 2001 12v swap
I am looking for some info on swapping a 12v into my 2001 24v. NV5600.
Engine is in but I can't seem to find much info on what I need to do with the cam sensor/apps. Most threads I find are related to the early 24v.
I am using the 12v cam so I can have the mechanical piston pump.
Sounds like without the 24v cam sensor the alternator/ac/tach won't work?
Has anyone made the 24v cam sensor work with the 12v?(without a cam/gear swap) Or am I going to have to set up an external regulator and something to control the AC?
And is the APPS needed for anything being I have a manual trans?
Thank you
Sam
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07-31-2017, 08:12 AM
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#2
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
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Posts: 2,399
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You need to treat it like a ppump 24v swap.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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07-31-2017, 08:37 AM
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#3
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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Ppump 24v conversions typically use the 24v cam gear for the tone teeth correct?
I am trying to use the 12v cam/gear.
I guess I am wondering if anyone has made the cam sensor work without having the tone teeth on the cam gear. A custom tone wheel on The crank possibly?
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07-31-2017, 08:47 AM
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#4
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
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Yes, get a the correct cam gear and cam sensor adapter. Or figure out what the window count is for the cam gear and if anyone has a tone wheel that is the same.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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07-31-2017, 09:02 AM
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#5
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes
. Or figure out what the window count is for the cam gear and if anyone has a tone wheel that is the same.
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That is what I would prefer.
Since cam rotates 1 revolution for every 2 crank revolutions, would half the number of windows from the cam gear work for a tone wheel on the crank?
Thanks for the help.
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07-31-2017, 09:10 AM
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#6
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
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Posts: 2,399
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Ah crap good point. Or find someone with a tone wheel off an earlier crank 98.5-00. That would be the correct pulse as well.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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07-31-2017, 09:33 AM
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#7
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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So you think Using the 01 cam sensor will work properly with an early crank tone wheel?
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07-31-2017, 11:05 AM
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#8
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Name: jlbayes
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: michigan
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The sensor won't care as it is just picking up the pulse or collapse of the field as the tone goes by. Look at the destroked tone wheels. What they use on the Cummins swaps.
__________________
Jacob, 97 rclb
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07-31-2017, 11:15 AM
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#9
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlbayes
The sensor won't care as it is just picking up the pulse or collapse of the field as the tone goes by. Look at the destroked tone wheels. What they use on the Cummins swaps.
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Right. Sounds like the tach won't be accurate but that really doesn't matter much to me.
I'll try to fab something up
Thanks again
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12-07-2017, 06:58 PM
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#10
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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So I used a 35-1 tooth tone wheel for a ford application, mounted to the fan pulley (was intended to be temporary)
The tach will read for about 10 seconds then drop to 0. Adjusting Sensor air gap does not change this. Alternator kicks on after a couple seconds and seems to work fine.
ECM not that stupid? Does it really need to see the 60-something windows in order for the tach to function?
Maybe I should have just swapped the cam gear
__________________
1979 Dodge Warlock W150 Ppump 12v/518
Last edited by 79powerwagon; 12-07-2017 at 06:59 PM.
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12-07-2017, 08:32 PM
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#11
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Name: Justappumped24v
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Illinois
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Posts: 1,311
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Unrelated to your question however, what Head bolts are those?
__________________
05 QCSB24v HTD 6.8L, DDP fueling PDD shifted
2011 MCSB 6.7, built 68rfe
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12-07-2017, 10:45 PM
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#12
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Name: CowboyEdition
Title: Because Diesel
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79powerwagon
So I used a 35-1 tooth tone wheel for a ford application, mounted to the fan pulley (was intended to be temporary)
The tach will read for about 10 seconds then drop to 0. Adjusting Sensor air gap does not change this. Alternator kicks on after a couple seconds and seems to work fine.
ECM not that stupid? Does it really need to see the 60-something windows in order for the tach to function?
Maybe I should have just swapped the cam gear
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Although it does a couple jobs, that sensor is actually a cam position sensor - meaning it's used for timing. The original 24V cam gear with the windows has one missing window that corresponds with TDC. I believe without that window, the computer is not seeing TDC position and is trying to shut off the engine, hence why the tach quits after a few seconds. Fill in one gap on your tone wheel and you'll be golden.
Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
98 12v QCSB Sport Package
0 Plate, 4k gsk, 60# Springs
Ported/Polished/Oringed/Studed Head
DFI 5X0.014's, Standard Pump Mods
S300 VNT Turbo, Mechanically Actuated
Home-built trans with goodies
Borgeson, DOR, Bilstein and Carli Upgrades
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12-08-2017, 05:18 AM
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#13
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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Headbolts are 12.9 socket head bolts
This is the tone wheel I used. It does have the missing tooth. Or are you saying I should have one wide tooth instead of a wide window?
__________________
1979 Dodge Warlock W150 Ppump 12v/518
Last edited by 79powerwagon; 12-08-2017 at 05:20 AM.
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12-08-2017, 05:25 AM
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#14
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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OK - I see what you're saying now. The original cam gear does have a sort of "wide tooth".
Thanks for pointing that out. Hopefully that takes care of it!
__________________
1979 Dodge Warlock W150 Ppump 12v/518
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12-08-2017, 02:17 PM
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#15
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Name: Justappumped24v
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Illinois
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Posts: 1,311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79powerwagon
Headbolts are 12.9 socket head bolts
This is the tone wheel I used. It does have the missing tooth. Or are you saying I should have one wide tooth instead of a wide window?
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How are those head bolts holding up?
__________________
05 QCSB24v HTD 6.8L, DDP fueling PDD shifted
2011 MCSB 6.7, built 68rfe
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12-08-2017, 03:19 PM
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#16
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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We will see. Don't have many hard miles on them yet. At $100 they seemed like a decent option for a sub 500hp truck. I torqued them to 130 with moly lube, though the longer six for the pedestals got 110.
I had some issues with twisting off new headbolts in a 3306 CAT with the loctite moly lube and didn't want to push it
__________________
1979 Dodge Warlock W150 Ppump 12v/518
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12-08-2017, 03:23 PM
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#17
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
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Posts: 328
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I did take a pedestal bolt past 110 and it didn't want to lock down.
Probably not an issue with just engine oil.
__________________
1979 Dodge Warlock W150 Ppump 12v/518
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12-08-2017, 06:01 PM
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#18
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Name: BigPapa
Title: Truckless
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Springfield, TN
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Posts: 5,037
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I believe you need this tone wheel. It's made to mount to the crank in front of the damper.
Tach Kit
Another issue with your setup is the fan hub turns faster than the crank so you're not going to get an accurate engine RPM from the fan pulley no matter what tone wheel you use.
Here's a good look at the tone wheel in the cam gear from an '01. If it didn't have the gap it would have 60 teeth, hence the 60-2 on the Destroked tone wheel.
__________________
Scott
2003 Avalanche Z71
Common sense is like deodorant. The people that need it most never use it.
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12-08-2017, 06:23 PM
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#19
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Name: 79powerwagon
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: MN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 328
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Yes I looked into that wheel, just trying to make my own setup.
Someone at destroked recommended the 36-1 wheel I believe.
The fan mounted wheel was meant to be temporary to at least get it charging.
The issue is that the cam spins half what the crank does.
The other issue as pointed out by cowboyedition is that the factory tone wheel does not have teeth, it has slots. Basically my tone wheel needs to have one wide tooth instead of a wide gap.
__________________
1979 Dodge Warlock W150 Ppump 12v/518
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12-08-2017, 11:08 PM
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#20
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Name: BigPapa
Title: Truckless
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Springfield, TN
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79powerwagon
The issue is that the cam spins half what the crank does.
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You're right there. I forgot about that. I had to deal with the crank sensor on mine, so it was 1:1. With the crank turning 2:1 to the cam the 36-1 on the crank would be correct.
As to the teeth vs. spaces, it's the same difference, however, cowboyedition may be correct on the solid portion vs. the open portion on the tone wheel. It's definitely worth a try. You could always grind it back out if it didn't work.
If I knew the diameter of the fan pulley and the damper pulley I could tell you the ratio on it.
__________________
Scott
2003 Avalanche Z71
Common sense is like deodorant. The people that need it most never use it.
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