Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > The Starting Line > Competition Vehicle Build Tech > Extreme Engine Tech
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-25-2018, 11:10 AM   #41
QMFB
 
QMFB's Avatar

Name: QMFB
Title: Fastest Welder in Texas
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Corpus Christi, TX.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,061
Makes sense. Never gave thought to pressure getting trapped between the first and second ring...
And please excuse my ignorance, but why doesn't anyone use a total seat first ring ?
Would negate the trapped pressure issue logically anyway.
__________________
04 CCLB DRW - 6.4 Cummins, HPTuners, 80% S&S, 10mm S&S CP3, AD165, s464 /s475, full billet 48re, Arp's EVERYWHERE, mild head work, lots of time and money... And never done.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 11:18 AM   #42
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
Total seal top rings are used in certain instances.
__________________
Infinite Performance
 
Old 02-25-2018, 11:36 AM   #43
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
To add to this, you cannot have a total seal top compression ring on a factory cast style piston due to the top ring being keystone. A two piece total seal ring package requires a square style ring, which the second compression ring is.

In a performance application we can alter the ring land design/size to accommodate both compression rings being square style in either 1/16" or 5/32" and choose whether the top or second ring is two piece.
__________________
Infinite Performance
 
Old 02-25-2018, 01:02 PM   #44
QMFB
 
QMFB's Avatar

Name: QMFB
Title: Fastest Welder in Texas
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Corpus Christi, TX.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,061
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Smokem. I appreciate it.
__________________
04 CCLB DRW - 6.4 Cummins, HPTuners, 80% S&S, 10mm S&S CP3, AD165, s464 /s475, full billet 48re, Arp's EVERYWHERE, mild head work, lots of time and money... And never done.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 01:06 PM   #45
QMFB
 
QMFB's Avatar

Name: QMFB
Title: Fastest Welder in Texas
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Corpus Christi, TX.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,061
So if you were using, say a D&J FSR piston, you could run a total seal top ring reliably ? And that would be acceptable on a performance build that also sees significant DD use ?
__________________
04 CCLB DRW - 6.4 Cummins, HPTuners, 80% S&S, 10mm S&S CP3, AD165, s464 /s475, full billet 48re, Arp's EVERYWHERE, mild head work, lots of time and money... And never done.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 09:55 PM   #46
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
My opinion for any set of circumstances would be to not use a total seal ring in either location for extended street use. Now this isn't to say anyone else's opinion is right or wrong, that is just the stance I take regarding this subject.
__________________
Infinite Performance
 
Old 02-26-2018, 10:01 AM   #47
Broaner
 
Broaner's Avatar

Name: Broaner
Title: Been There n Broke That
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 744
You've got me worried now. Is unseating the top ring the only issue?
__________________
05.5 QCSB Shotpeened NV5600 - 994hp/1650tq, 6.7, Wagler Rods, QSB Pistons, 625's, Oversized Valves, ZZFab, P&P, 150%, Dual CP3, 69/73/1.0 & 82/96/1.32
Street Triple, 35's, Trutrac, Carli, MM3 from Gordon, 1100hp
 
Old 02-26-2018, 10:58 AM   #48
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
The problem I see is there is a lack of information regarding the result of running a total seal ring in a diesel street driven application. In an instance such as this I tend to err on the side of caution, you may have no issues with your setup, so I don't mean to say you did it wrong or will certainly be unsuccessful.
__________________
Infinite Performance
 
Old 02-26-2018, 11:05 AM   #49
QMFB
 
QMFB's Avatar

Name: QMFB
Title: Fastest Welder in Texas
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Corpus Christi, TX.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,061
Looks like you will be the source of data on this topic Broaner... Now go put some miles on that Engine ! Lol.
__________________
04 CCLB DRW - 6.4 Cummins, HPTuners, 80% S&S, 10mm S&S CP3, AD165, s464 /s475, full billet 48re, Arp's EVERYWHERE, mild head work, lots of time and money... And never done.
 
Old 03-13-2018, 09:56 PM   #50
ctdthrasher

Name: ctdthrasher
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2015
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 77
Good info on the total seal rings. Blowby sucks but I will use the oem rings and make a good catcher/breather system to keep the underside clean. Not like the current motor that keeps getting a continual oil change, no draining necessary haha
__________________
98 12V quad cab. PDD 5x14s and 025. 63/68/.83
13.06@103. need more fuel....and air....and fuel
 
Old 03-14-2018, 10:06 AM   #51
Broaner
 
Broaner's Avatar

Name: Broaner
Title: Been There n Broke That
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 744
Weird, I thought it was alot more common. Well I set em on the loose side of their specs so here's hoping. So far so good. Absolutely zero blowby at idle on a brand new engine. Blowby oil catch is about what I would expect from full boost at about 70psi. I didn't see any oil out the catch can breather until now and I haven't drained it since install in 5k miles. Not planning to push this thing too hard. It might make 1100 on current tune and thats where I'm gonna leave it if thats what it does. Still need to get drive pressure gauge hooked up to see if i can go to 5,000 revs. Right now I've got it limited to 4500.

The super thin "rail" piece that creates the "total seal" did have me somewhat concerned during assembly. Doesn't take much to catch an edge and roll that sucker. Time will tell. Approaching 5k miles so far on this engine.
__________________
05.5 QCSB Shotpeened NV5600 - 994hp/1650tq, 6.7, Wagler Rods, QSB Pistons, 625's, Oversized Valves, ZZFab, P&P, 150%, Dual CP3, 69/73/1.0 & 82/96/1.32
Street Triple, 35's, Trutrac, Carli, MM3 from Gordon, 1100hp

Last edited by Broaner; 03-14-2018 at 10:10 AM.
 
Old 03-14-2018, 11:39 AM   #52
spooled05
 
spooled05's Avatar

Name: spooled05
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Weatherford ,Tx
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 832
This is the reason I decided against the total seal 2nd ring , I couldn’t find enough real info from people who actually did it so I went stock . Keep us updated how yours works Broaner .
__________________
05 q/c 4x4 dually,twins,dual fuelers HP tuners,Flux inj., Mitusa gusher,full billet DTT!
 
Old 03-15-2018, 09:38 AM   #53
Broaner
 
Broaner's Avatar

Name: Broaner
Title: Been There n Broke That
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 744
Will do. I actually called total seal during assembly to get clarification on specs and parts confirmation. They had some decent insight so I get the feeling more people than we might think are running them on diesels.
__________________
05.5 QCSB Shotpeened NV5600 - 994hp/1650tq, 6.7, Wagler Rods, QSB Pistons, 625's, Oversized Valves, ZZFab, P&P, 150%, Dual CP3, 69/73/1.0 & 82/96/1.32
Street Triple, 35's, Trutrac, Carli, MM3 from Gordon, 1100hp
 
Old 03-15-2018, 09:58 AM   #54
YoungDiesel27
 
YoungDiesel27's Avatar

Name: YoungDiesel27
Title: Never Enough Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West Virginia
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 825
We have used over 1000 sets without issue.
__________________
EFI Live, HP Tuners, Smarty custom tuning
 
Old 03-15-2018, 10:26 AM   #55
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
They are very commonly used in diesel applications, however far more so in competition applications rather than street driven situations.
__________________
Infinite Performance
 
Old 03-16-2018, 03:31 PM   #56
paulb
 
paulb's Avatar

Name: paulb
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Klamath Falls, OR
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,673
I like using the total seal as a second ring. It allows you to run a larger ring gap on the top ring and still have low blow by. I have about 30,000 miles on them on my 05, right now.

I would not use them as a top ring. From my experience in other applications, having a total seal ring as the top ring with a high temp combustion chamber, will cause the ring to loose tension.
__________________
02 4x4 Auto Mach 6+'s, Drag Comp,Source Automotive Twins, Ultimate Transmission
05 2500 4x4 Auto 3.73 BBI 4's, Smarty Touch, Source Automotive Twins, F1 springs and Cam, Opie's bypass system, Mitusa, PPE Dual Fueler, Ultimate Transmission, Opie shafts,Isspro gauges
 
Old 03-16-2018, 04:32 PM   #57
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
Do you run the same on the '02?
__________________
Infinite Performance
 
Old 03-16-2018, 06:03 PM   #58
paulb
 
paulb's Avatar

Name: paulb
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Klamath Falls, OR
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem View Post
Do you run the same on the '02?
The 02 still has the stock bottom end...
__________________
02 4x4 Auto Mach 6+'s, Drag Comp,Source Automotive Twins, Ultimate Transmission
05 2500 4x4 Auto 3.73 BBI 4's, Smarty Touch, Source Automotive Twins, F1 springs and Cam, Opie's bypass system, Mitusa, PPE Dual Fueler, Ultimate Transmission, Opie shafts,Isspro gauges
 
Old 03-16-2018, 08:12 PM   #59
Pudge
 
Pudge's Avatar

Name: Pudge
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 421
I know this thread is largely about street engines, but I spoke with 3 different very experienced engine builders about this and none of them recommended it. Each of them stated their reason against a gapless 2nd ring would cause the top ring to flutter. What the tell signs of that are, I don't know.

However; when I bought a set of diamond pistons, the rings they recommended were the total seal with gapless 2nd. So I bought and installed them in my pulling engine to no ill effect that I'm aware of, it had practically no blow by at north of 1000hp and sustained 4k+ rpm. The thin ring still had good tension at the end of the year. The pistons didn't hold up as well as the rings. I don't think I would do either one in a street engine that I didn't want to maintenance regularly, as in tear down. My opinion

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk
__________________
Wishing for more time and money.
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:25 PM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2024, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com