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Diesel Conversions Powerplant swaps, Repowers, etc.

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Old 02-05-2022, 12:05 PM   #41
T-MAN
 
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Trans was from a 06 dmax, i did the swap in 2016 and it was street driven, drag raced and i did local sled pulling. in late 2018 i took it off the road and was just my weekend race truck. i never towed anything other then a sled with it. I'm not sure how heavy or how frequent your going to tow, But i can say that you could have whoever is deemed the best allison builder currently build you a trans and have great tuning and at 600+hp locked shifts and no defuel i can't see it living forever towing, even a 48re at an honest 600 horse towing heavy probably won't last.... set sights at 400 and i think it has a good chance of doing what you want. ive seen and spoke to guys with a cummins allison conversion with 6-800 hp burn an allison up pretty quick, i think they may have come along way but I'm not sure, there's a beautiful 2012 for sale by me with about 800hp that he gave up on and is selling reasonable.

Im not sure if jwhite is tuner or not but it seems he builds these, he can probably confirm that even high horsepower dmax builds give a defuel on the shift to let the trans do its thing, it also looks like one of his units are going behind a mechanical 600hp truck, will be interesting to see what if any issues come of that.

Travis is another guy on here who does quite a few of these swaps, he may chime in and give a run down...Hes a shop that has to stand behind what he does, im sure he has a setup and a hp limit he's comfortable standing behind for daily driving and towing.

I'm guessing the 6 pinion p2 you looked at was from defeo, those guys are close to me and have a nice setup up there. They also make their own clutches in house, not sure if he's doing his own converters yet (he has the ability) or if he's still using converters from gorend. his products are worth a look but Anthony doesn't give anything away.
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Old 02-05-2022, 01:46 PM   #42
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It's the shifting that kills them. Some people don't get the shift timing right and they'll leave it like that. An Allison will hold 800hp on the Dyno with basic parts, drag racing is another deal all together.

I can't comment on what the really high HP guys are doing for defuel, but street trucks it's a must. Doesn't take much. Most builders are going to recommend billet P2 parts above 750hp even if it's an application that utilizes shift defuel. Going overly aggressive on the c2 pack will cause a terrible 3rd-4th tie up
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Last edited by JWhite; 02-05-2022 at 01:47 PM.
 
Old 02-05-2022, 03:12 PM   #43
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T-MAN,

2006 seems to be the common transmission due to it haveing the speed sensor in the bellhousing. For me it will just be street driven/towing with maybe a couple sled hooks a year. I have no plans for drag racing, but there is a 1/8 mile track about three hours away. Basically a daily driving/tow rig. I will not be doing a lot of towing, mainly just hauling cows and calve to pasture, calves to the sale barn and bulls to buyers. Also whatever equipment I haul around the ranch. Maybe a max of 38,000 pounds combined due to some equipment being around 22,000 pounds.

I do not plan on having a tow tune much over 400 to the ground. Shoot, even 350 to the ground pulls good enough for most of the hills around here. Not to mention it should pull better than any factory stock pickup out there.

I would have it setup so normal mode is for the 400 hp setting and T/H mode would be for the max hp setting. As you mentioned, if I use a tight TC, I could maybe unlock for shifts than lock back up again. Time will tell.

That would be great of Travis would chime in with his experience. That could prove to be very helpful.

You are correct, the 6 pinion is from defeo. I have been looking at clutch packs they have as well. They have a set that they say is good for up to 2000hp. Obviously everything else would need to tbe perfect. Yes, as far as I know they do have their own torque converters. I will be getting the in, out and intermediate shafts when the time comes. It's good to hear they have good stuff. They do know what they want for things. But some of there stuff is exclusive to them. Thanks for the information.




JWhite,

What are your thoughts about unlocking the TC for shifting? A guy would want a tight TC if they went that route. It sounds like timing is everything when it come to makeing these trannys last at high hp. I do wish I had a way to defuel the engine for shifting. Thanks for the information!
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Old 02-05-2022, 03:53 PM   #44
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Imo, waste of time. I'd rather have a converter that couples really good and wait till OD to lock it up during drag racing. I'm a fan of just letting the TCM do it's thing, but I've never set one up for No defuel. Even the later operating systems can do a locked downshift. This is why Allison swaps never took off better than they have, it's a pain tuning wise, and if this guy knows anything he won't give you a guarantee that it'll be right the first time
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Old 02-05-2022, 04:42 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhite View Post
Imo, waste of time. I'd rather have a converter that couples really good and wait till OD to lock it up during drag racing. I'm a fan of just letting the TCM do it's thing, but I've never set one up for No defuel. Even the later operating systems can do a locked downshift. This is why Allison swaps never took off better than they have, it's a pain tuning wise, and if this guy knows anything he won't give you a guarantee that it'll be right the first time
I could settle for unlocked shifts and locking the converter once hitting overdrive if it meant longetivity. Locked shifts from 2nd gear on isn't a necessity to me.
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Old 02-05-2022, 05:55 PM   #46
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Quote:
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Imo, waste of time. I'd rather have a converter that couples really good and wait till OD to lock it up during drag racing. I'm a fan of just letting the TCM do it's thing, but I've never set one up for No defuel. Even the later operating systems can do a locked downshift. This is why Allison swaps never took off better than they have, it's a pain tuning wise, and if this guy knows anything he won't give you a guarantee that it'll be right the first time
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Locked down shifts are nice. They really help with braking. And if you have a exhaust brake you need the TC to lock. What are your thought on only locking the TC in od for towing. Obviously a TC is not a one size fits all. What do you consider a good coupling TC?

That's one thing Jason is very clear on. It will in almost all case not be right the first time around. And in more special case it can take a lot of work to get it right.
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Old 02-05-2022, 05:57 PM   #47
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I could settle for unlocked shifts and locking the converter once hitting overdrive if it meant longetivity. Locked shifts from 2nd gear on isn't a necessity to me.
Same here. I am used to that now with my 6.4, it only locks in 4th and 5th. It also has way to loose of a converter, a tighter one would make it so much better.
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:23 PM   #48
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I just read this whole thread and I think ur over thinkin this a bit
Throw a input and P2 planet in that thing form Xcaliber with their latest clutches and put the ratio tek spring and one shim in
Do the converter flow valve mod and send it with Jason's harness and tuning
Once the shifts are learned it will live
I've been putting over 1550hp thru a 6 speed with just as mentioned above
U can raise the pressure more but it wears the pump quicker is all

Defueling is not needed in the slightest in my opinion

I have a stock 6 speed Allison behind my 2009 Ram with only only a converter and shift kit and pressure set as mentioned above
Truck is around 550hp
Trans had 240k on it when I swapped it and now over 300
Wish u luck
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Old 02-05-2022, 09:43 PM   #49
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Obviously a TC is not a one size fits all. What do you consider a good coupling TC?
For a 7.3 I couldn't begin to recommend a good converter, different world than what I live in. But usually the Suncoast 1070 series or Goerend seems to be the ticket on the GM side. How high are you planning to rev this 7.3? If you're wanting to make 800hp but have a low stall converter I'd be interested in hearing your setup. To me it sounds like a low rev with a mountain of tq down low.

If you really are going to power down while towing you shouldn't have an issue doing locked shifts
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Old 02-06-2022, 08:31 AM   #50
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I just read this whole thread and I think ur over thinkin this a bit
Throw a input and P2 planet in that thing form Xcaliber with their latest clutches and put the ratio tek spring and one shim in
Do the converter flow valve mod and send it with Jason's harness and tuning
Once the shifts are learned it will live
I've been putting over 1550hp thru a 6 speed with just as mentioned above
U can raise the pressure more but it wears the pump quicker is all

Defueling is not needed in the slightest in my opinion

I have a stock 6 speed Allison behind my 2009 Ram with only only a converter and shift kit and pressure set as mentioned above
Truck is around 550hp
Trans had 240k on it when I swapped it and now over 300
Wish u luck
More food for thought, thank you! It's my understanding from Jason, that he does not lock the TC until shifts are figured out than he brings in lockup. That seems like a safe way to approach the tuning.

Do you use the 1550hp setup for sled pulling?

Is your 09 Ram ram used for towing at that power level? Thanks again for entering the conversation.
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Old 02-06-2022, 08:45 AM   #51
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For a 7.3 I couldn't begin to recommend a good converter, different world than what I live in. But usually the Suncoast 1070 series or Goerend seems to be the ticket on the GM side. How high are you planning to rev this 7.3? If you're wanting to make 800hp but have a low stall converter I'd be interested in hearing your setup. To me it sounds like a low rev with a mountain of tq down low.

If you really are going to power down while towing you shouldn't have an issue doing locked shifts
I understand, there is just to many variables. Goerend is a name I see mentioned a lot. For the tow tune peak hp is around 2600/2800 peak tq is around 1800/2000, when the compounds are on I plan to drop it down between 1600 and 1800.

The highest I plan to rev is 4000 rpm, but with the injector limitations of the HEUI system peak hp will be between 2800 and 3200. I do not know yet. That's just a common window for the 7.3. Peak torque would be around 2000 rpms for the big tune for the safty of the engine.

The 800 is a number I am shooting for after the engine is built. Currently I am only good for 550 to 600 limited by my turbo.

Yes, I for sure will be and am powering down for towing.

Thanks again for your input.
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Old 02-06-2022, 08:52 AM   #52
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JWhite,

When the time comes for the build, I will do a thread on it. My plans are a built engine, ported heads, billet rods, girdle or bedplate, cam, HD lifters, springs, push rods, headers, compounds, just to list some stuff.
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Old 02-06-2022, 05:01 PM   #53
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More food for thought, thank you! It's my understanding from Jason, that he does not lock the TC until shifts are figured out than he brings in lockup. That seems like a safe way to approach the tuning.

Do you use the 1550hp setup for sled pulling?

Is your 09 Ram ram used for towing at that power level? Thanks again for entering the conversation.
Yes that high power is in the 3.0 trucks

Yes we tow at that 550 power level

Customer trucks I've done are more yet
Did one in a 2016 for a guy who tows heavy over 600 hp
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Old 02-06-2022, 06:29 PM   #54
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Yes that high power is in the 3.0 trucks

Yes we tow at that 550 power level

Customer trucks I've done are more yet
Did one in a 2016 for a guy who tows heavy over 600 hp
Good information, makes me feel even more comfortable with my plans.

Does Jason do all your customer's tuning?

Do you use the MD TCM for all your conversions?

Do you stick with the 06-09 transmission's? Or have you tried the 10 and newer trannys?

Thank you!
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Last edited by Cowboys4Christ; 02-06-2022 at 06:31 PM.
 
Old 02-06-2022, 06:34 PM   #55
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Just thought of another question. I knew it would happen!

What have you all done about the 4low sensor and tone gear placement?

Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2022, 07:16 PM   #56
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The newer valve bodies (lml's) don't cooperate
No Jason doesn't do all of ours
He doesn't have tap shift option and guys with newer trucks don't want to lose functions
Ats diesels setup works really well fir 13+ rams now
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Old 02-06-2022, 07:18 PM   #57
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Just thought of another question. I knew it would happen!

What have you all done about the 4low sensor and tone gear placement?

Thanks!
U manchine the tail shaft housing so speed sensor and tone ring gets pressed on input of t case with a clocking ring
That way the trans Tcm doesn't know if it's 4lo or high, it just works
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Old 02-06-2022, 10:20 PM   #58
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U manchine the tail shaft housing so speed sensor and tone ring gets pressed on input of t case with a clocking ring
That way the trans Tcm doesn't know if it's 4lo or high, it just works
Thank you for the information. I have read conflicting reports on this, but interestingly enough, not a one of the guys had actually done it. Some had mounted the tone ring but never tested 4 Low.

I plan to use a Ford NP273 t-case with a dodge 29 spline in-put shaft. Hope this works.
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Old 02-06-2022, 10:22 PM   #59
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The newer valve bodies (lml's) don't cooperate
No Jason doesn't do all of ours
He doesn't have tap shift option and guys with newer trucks don't want to lose functions
Ats diesels setup works really well fir 13+ rams now
Ok, gotcha, thank you! Jason did say the newer ones need more inputs to work, and that it's harder to tune. Tap shift is nice for locking out gears for hilly slow roads.
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Old 02-07-2022, 06:58 AM   #60
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Thank you for the information. I have read conflicting reports on this, but interestingly enough, not a one of the guys had actually done it. Some had mounted the tone ring but never tested 4 Low.

I plan to use a Ford NP273 t-case with a dodge 29 spline in-put shaft. Hope this works.
First ones I did were with 271's and are still working to this day
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