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Old 10-31-2016, 09:15 PM   #1
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Need help with ladder bars

What is everyone making ladder bars out of? Square tubing? Pics and info please! Mine will be on a dodge but any help is appreciated
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Old 10-31-2016, 10:17 PM   #2
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Anti Wrap bars | Torque arm | Traction Bar


Mine.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:59 AM   #3
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This thread is your friend.

lets see pics of traction bars - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together

If you want to add information to it just PM a moderator and they can open the thread again.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:37 AM   #4
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Round will be your strongest geometric shape.
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Old 11-01-2016, 09:34 AM   #5
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^^^^^Not true...to generic of a statement.

A square vs a round of the same diameter vs width/height with the same wall thickness...the square is stronger in ever measure exempt torsion about its center.
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Old 11-01-2016, 09:41 AM   #6
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Round will be your strongest geometric shape.
I'd disagree. Round is going to give you the most torsional strength. Square tube would likely be stronger in the bending moments that'll be put on it.
Remember, the forces on them is almost solely rotating the axle and shoving the end of the bar into the frame.

That being said, I'd build it out of round because it looks so much better!

And I personally like the style with a shackle up front. a 'floating' ladder bar. Much less binding.
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Old 11-01-2016, 09:44 AM   #7
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The way the ends are connected will dictate the force in the bar...whether is is axial...compression/tension or moment...bending or both.

A shackle on one end and fixed at the axle...will make it a bending type.
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:06 PM   #8
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^^^^^Not true...to generic of a statement.

A square vs a round of the same diameter vs width/height with the same wall thickness...the square is stronger in ever measure exempt torsion about its center.

Well are we talking 2" OD diameter, and 2" width/height? Or 2" OD diameter and 1.41" width/height?
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cquestad View Post
The way the ends are connected will dictate the force in the bar...whether is is axial...compression/tension or moment...bending or both.

A shackle on one end and fixed at the axle...will make it a bending type.
Ladder bars are fixed at the axle and have a bending moment on them, assuming no binding (why I called out the floating design).
Traction bars are a single floating bar in compression.
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Last edited by CorneliusRox; 11-01-2016 at 05:50 PM.
 
Old 11-01-2016, 06:31 PM   #10
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2" OD vs 2" width/height
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:40 PM   #11
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2" OD vs 2" width/height

So in general is a 2"OD stronger than 1.414" width/height?
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:01 PM   #12
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What about an I/H beam design?
(I want to go down in oraller history like Rudolph)

Carbon fiber I beams

I thought anything with rounded structures faired better under stress than to have corners (stress risers)

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Old 11-02-2016, 08:23 AM   #13
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So in general is a 2"OD stronger than 1.414" width/height?
I built a simple calculator real quick. Here's what I found:
2" Solid bar 4' long in bending with a load of 3000N will only have a stress of 284.19MPa.
1.414" Solid Square bar 4' long in bending with a load of 3000N will have a stress of 473.69MPa

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

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What about an I/H beam design?
(I want to go down in oraller history like Rudolph)

Carbon fiber I beams

I thought anything with rounded structures faired better under stress than to have corners (stress risers)
Carbon fiber for one, isn't a long term solution. Every time it deforms, it breaks bonds and degrades. If you're using it only in a torsional application, it works pretty well. Bending and tensile it is still alright. Compression is doesn't love.

And I-beams are better in certain applications. This might even be one.
This is what I got for a 4' long, 3000N loaded I-beam that's 2" wide, 2" tall, and 1/2" thick.
It has a stress of 184.72MPa (which is the best yet). These hate torsional loading, but as long as you're not trying to get axle articulation (think off-roading style twisting), this would fight your bending forces really well.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-02-2016, 09:20 AM   #14
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Carbon fiber was an oraller joke. I'm sorry.

The opportunity to articulate and see compression load should be low I would think.

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Old 11-02-2016, 10:30 AM   #15
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Carbon fiber was an oraller joke. I'm sorry.

The opportunity to articulate and see compression load should be low I would think.
I agree with a floating ladder bar setup. Fixed, or a traction bar setup would both have some compression on them.
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:23 AM   #16
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I'm not communicating so well......

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Old 11-02-2016, 11:25 AM   #17
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Compression strut is far more simple...lighter and takes advantage of existing strength of the leaf spring.

Period.
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:47 AM   #18
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Compression strut is far more simple...lighter and takes advantage of existing strength of the leaf spring.

Period.
When you say 'compression strut', do you mean the same thing as a traction bar?

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:02 PM   #19
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Yes...mount the lower rod end directly below the axle...3" is a nice offset.

36-48 inch bars are plenty long. 36 on a low truck...48 on a high truck.

1 1/2 Sch 40 Pipe is more than enough.
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