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Old 11-27-2016, 10:28 AM   #1
Dutchy93

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855 cummins help

i have an 855 400 big cam, cpl 1211. it has a holset htb3 turbo and as far as i can tell it is stock. my goal is anywhere from 550-600 hp. The pump is coming off, the injectors out and they are being sent to a friends shop in toronto. My big question/ concern is the rest of the motor. i'm not worried about cooling as the trucks GVW is 58000 pounds, absolute max and i have top to botton redone the low flow cooling, it never even kicked the fan on the last 2 summers at 40 degree heat. the truck runs the stock air to aftercooler set up and ive read an n14 manifold will fit, but is it really worth it just for an intercooler? will it realistically make any difference? My current turbo will only push 21 psi on the manifold pressure gauge, i havent got at it with the feeler gauge to see if its in spec according to my manual yet but the almighty internet has said these turbos are good well past 600hp? Timing is realistically the scariest bit for me, i have been reading my book and i understand the cam follower gaskets help advance or retard injector timing, is this something i will need to change? I know i will be raising the fuel supply with the pump/ injectors but will timing need to change to save the cam shaft? My friend who is a die hard cat guy but a wiz with motors will be helping me through this as this is my first real "motor" job, the heads are coming off for gaskets, the front cover as well as all the seals are shot so if i had to re time the motor to make it live i just want to know before i slam it back together. Any input or help or past experience is greatly appreciated, thanks
 
Old 11-27-2016, 02:14 PM   #2
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I have zeri 1st hand experience in building an 855, but I have read some on it. Iirc, if you want it to be reliable, you need to retard the timing. How much I don't know. It probably all depends on how power you are making. As far as the turbo, I'm sure there is a more efficient and reliable option out there.
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Old 11-27-2016, 06:48 PM   #3
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I'm sure SmokintCat, RockinRam96, and JFaulkner will chime in. They are very knowledgeable in the class 8 trucks. You can also chime in on this trucking thread:

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Old 11-27-2016, 07:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
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I'm sure SmokintCat, RockinRam96, and JFaulkner will chime in. They are very knowledgeable in the class 8 trucks. You can also chime in on this trucking thread:

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SmokinCat is your guy for older engines. He said he to reply will be here when he gets home
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:34 PM   #5
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For one your engine is an STC so retiming is not as important as a fixed time engine. You have to make sure that nothing in the STC system leaks or you will have nothing but trouble.

You need to know the flow rate your injectors are being changed to, if they can't give you this number then I would use someplace else.

3804502 is the part number for a Holset HT60 that will be a good upgrade and work for that power level, do not buy a Borg Warner version.

Get back with us on the flow rates of the injectors and we will go from there.
 
Old 11-27-2016, 10:02 PM   #6
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In on this one. I've always run these 'ol girls and have wanted to do exactly as the op is suggesting. 600HP out of one of these would have to feel monstrous.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:11 PM   #7
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What truck is this motor in. If you have the plumbing and have a model of truck that eventually came with an N14 from the factory, I would say most certainly put an air to air charge cooler on the motor and get rid of the intercooler. The intercooler will theoretically only cool the charge air to the engine water temperature. An air to air charge cooler has the capability of cooling the charge air much cooler than that.

Definitely try to find an HT60. You will see gains for the turbo alone but you will need to do some plumbing work. But if you're going to go to an air to air charge cooler you'll be doing that any way.

SmokinCAT is the guru here for setting this engine up.
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SmokinCAT View Post
For one your engine is an STC so retiming is not as important as a fixed time engine. You have to make sure that nothing in the STC system leaks or you will have nothing but trouble.

You need to know the flow rate your injectors are being changed to, if they can't give you this number then I would use someplace else.

3804502 is the part number for a Holset HT60 that will be a good upgrade and work for that power level, do not buy a Borg Warner version.

Get back with us on the flow rates of the injectors and we will go from there.
sure am glad you, as well as everyone else, is here to help me along! the STC system seems to be fine, i am in the process of replacing a few of the lines that have begun to weep but it definitely functions properly (weve had them fail on l10's before, at -10, on plow trucks, too much fun ) good to know about the turbo, work has been nuts here lately havent been able to dig the truck out of the snow bank let alone get into the motor. I will get a hold of the shop to find out about the flow rate for the injectors hopefully some time this week, sorry i havent responded or provided you with any useful info, but with 5 combination plow trucks this time of year can and if proving to be hectic. Thanks for the guidance and patience!
 
Old 12-27-2016, 12:47 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=RockinRam96;2588988]What truck is this motor in. If you have the plumbing and have a model of truck that eventually came with an N14 from the factory, I would say most certainly put an air to air charge cooler on the motor and get rid of the intercooler. The intercooler will theoretically only cool the charge air to the engine water temperature. An air to air charge cooler has the capability of cooling the charge air much cooler than that.

Definitely try to find an HT60. You will see gains for the turbo alone but you will need to do some plumbing work. But if you're going to go to an air to air charge cooler you'll be doing that any way.

SmokinCAT is the guru here for setting this engine up.[/QUOTE

The truck is a 1990 9400 international. again i havent really gone into the truck completely yet but i planned on measuring the gap between the rad/ hood to see what i had to work with for an intercooler. I dont mind the work to move the rad back a few inches to squeeze an intercooler in if need be, the AC isnt even hooked up so i wouldnt mind giving it the boot either to make room. Just hoped to maybe get an opinion from someone who has done it or hasnt with a hot 400 and if the bang is worth the buck. Thanks again fellas
 
Old 12-27-2016, 01:05 PM   #10
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[quote=Dutchy93;2592311]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockinRam96 View Post
What truck is this motor in. If you have the plumbing and have a model of truck that eventually came with an N14 from the factory, I would say most certainly put an air to air charge cooler on the motor and get rid of the intercooler. The intercooler will theoretically only cool the charge air to the engine water temperature. An air to air charge cooler has the capability of cooling the charge air much cooler than that.

Definitely try to find an HT60. You will see gains for the turbo alone but you will need to do some plumbing work. But if you're going to go to an air to air charge cooler you'll be doing that any way.

SmokinCAT is the guru here for setting this engine up.[/QUOTE

The truck is a 1990 9400 international. again i havent really gone into the truck completely yet but i planned on measuring the gap between the rad/ hood to see what i had to work with for an intercooler. I dont mind the work to move the rad back a few inches to squeeze an intercooler in if need be, the AC isnt even hooked up so i wouldnt mind giving it the boot either to make room. Just hoped to maybe get an opinion from someone who has done it or hasnt with a hot 400 and if the bang is worth the buck. Thanks again fellas
That era truck it would be good to find the engine cooling system parts you need to convert to high flow and then you could also drop a radiator and air to air in the truck from a cat powered truck from the era.
 
Old 12-27-2016, 01:14 PM   #11
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It just seems like such a kick in the nuts, i had the rad recored, new water pump, thermostats and gaskets and all that to now yank it and basically scrap it?! I know there is a reason new trucks dont use low flow cooling but my truck never, ever, grosses more than 58000 pounds, is it really worth all the extra work? shot in the dark but why from a cat powered truck? the inlet/outlet in better spots or just better pieces all together?
 
Old 12-27-2016, 02:46 PM   #12
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It just seems like such a kick in the nuts, i had the rad recored, new water pump, thermostats and gaskets and all that to now yank it and basically scrap it?! I know there is a reason new trucks dont use low flow cooling but my truck never, ever, grosses more than 58000 pounds, is it really worth all the extra work? shot in the dark but why from a cat powered truck? the inlet/outlet in better spots or just better pieces all together?
Radiator and charge air cooler usually work together as far as size goes. May be the same radiator (physical size as a Cat powered truck) and the CAC will fit.

If it were me, I'd run it with the low flow radiator until I had issues with it.
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Old 12-27-2016, 06:47 PM   #13
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For now i will run the low flow. The truck works 6 months a year ( yes, beyond spoiled ) so if its really a problem we have a spare and i can make the change. I'm going to throw this out there as well, and please go easy on me, dual fuel lines. Is it really a thing or a good way to sell a couple hundred dollar kit to every sucker who uses google for 5 minutes?
 
Old 12-27-2016, 07:29 PM   #14
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For now i will run the low flow. The truck works 6 months a year ( yes, beyond spoiled ) so if its really a problem we have a spare and i can make the change. I'm going to throw this out there as well, and please go easy on me, dual fuel lines. Is it really a thing or a good way to sell a couple hundred dollar kit to every sucker who uses google for 5 minutes?


Build your own set for $20 with steel brake line from Napa. I did. It took me some time because I wanted it to look nice.

Just need a tube cutter and a flaring tool, a little tubing bender if you want the to look real nice.

I'll see if I have any pics.


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Old 12-27-2016, 07:39 PM   #15
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Check this out. I might have posted some pics here...

Cummins NTC-350

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Old 12-28-2016, 11:29 AM   #16
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really helped eh? i want to use all stainless braid line with black fittings because its kind of our show piece, but i didnt want to buy fittings and line if it wasnt worth the effort.
 
Old 12-28-2016, 11:37 AM   #17
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really helped eh? i want to use all stainless braid line with black fittings because its kind of our show piece, but i didnt want to buy fittings and line if it wasnt worth the effort.
Good luck finding 5/16" braided line, 1/4 is not big enough, if set in doing it that way then just jump to 3/8".
 
Old 12-29-2016, 06:28 PM   #18
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yes it will be 3/8, i ran into that problem with my pick up truck years ago. Also sucks because the fuel lines were new last year but, it is what it is. Hit a snag with the pump and injectors as the shop now tells me after giving them the engine info that the max they can do for me would be a 50hp jump. The ht60 is no problem, but now im back at square one. Any suggestions? Thanks
 
Old 12-29-2016, 06:52 PM   #19
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Diesel controls, ask for jim. Tell him what you are wanting and he can tell you what it will take to get there.
 
Old 12-30-2016, 05:12 AM   #20
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really helped eh? i want to use all stainless braid line with black fittings because its kind of our show piece, but i didnt want to buy fittings and line if it wasnt worth the effort.


I don't really know if it made a difference. I swapped turbo, fuel pump, and injectors all at the same time I added the second fuel supply like. But to me it only makes sense. Whether it's noticeable or not is a different story. My truck also never pulled a load. Just drove it to and from the pulls.

I get the braided stainless looks, but once I got mine made with steel brake line and painted up with Cummins beige, it looked pretty good. So, I thought.


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