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Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
02-24-2017, 12:32 PM
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#1
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Divided manifold vs not
Does anyone have any data showing divided vs non-divided exhaust manifold on the same setup?
My impression is that divided is going to spool a little quicker, but how much quicker, and is there any power losses/gains?
I'm planning on building a manifold (mostly for fun), but the location I want to put the turbo would make it hard to keep it divided. I'm just wondering if it's worth all the extra work to keep it divided.
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Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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02-24-2017, 01:01 PM
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#2
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Name: Highwayman
Title: bored.
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Location: Wacko
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I'm interested in this data as well.
I would assume that you could size the turbo accordingly and be golden.
Also, if I build a manifold, I want to do it similar to the way the calibrated power ucc truck's is done.
__________________
97 Dodge 2500 RCLB ( scrapped)
1973 F250 crew (soon to receive new power train)
COMPD:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfreak24
Lolzzzzzz fakin haters
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02-24-2017, 01:06 PM
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#3
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
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Location: Yakima, WA
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The manifold I made out of 3/16" steel has the turbo right between 2 and 3. Not divided and not even any type of interior diverter. With the 60mm WH1C over S475, 5x18 injectors, 191 DVs, 23* timing, some bowl work widening out the swirl ramps, and a 3 angle valve job; I hit 10psi by 1250rpm and it climbs QUICK from there.
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49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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02-24-2017, 01:10 PM
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#4
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Name: Highwayman
Title: bored.
Status: Not Here
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About how large were the pipes/passages you used to create it?
__________________
97 Dodge 2500 RCLB ( scrapped)
1973 F250 crew (soon to receive new power train)
COMPD:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfreak24
Lolzzzzzz fakin haters
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02-24-2017, 01:19 PM
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#5
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
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Posts: 780
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Similar to stock. ID closely matched the port.
My A/W intercooler also sits right over the valve covers, so charge piping length is similar to a 1st gen; I'm sure that effects spool up a little too.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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02-24-2017, 01:39 PM
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#6
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
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Posts: 5,565
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Have you considered that your manifold design may be a factor in the idle haze issue you are having?
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02-24-2017, 01:42 PM
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#7
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
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Posts: 780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
Have you considered that your manifold design may be a factor in the idle haze issue you are having?
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Not until literally right after I posted the picture and before you commented.
But then as I sat there staring at the picture I was trying to wrap my head around how that could actually cause it?... It should be decently similar to a stock manifold... The last time I blew the head gasket, I started up the truck before bolting the turbos back on to the manifold. I could actually see the raw diesel almost like misting out. Don't think the manifold has any effect on that unless you can offer up some ideas.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
Last edited by Redrider2911; 02-24-2017 at 01:46 PM.
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02-24-2017, 10:46 PM
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#8
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Name: 1stgensleeper
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Modesto, California
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Hardway Performance had an article on their website about this but I can't get it to load for some reason so I can't post the link. They tested steed speed manifolds that had a wastegate insert that kept the manifold completely divided and one that left a small gap for air to cross over between the sides, the difference was pretty large for such a small gap left open. The divided manifold made more torque and it mainly shined in the midrange if I remember correctly. Peak power didn't change much. I imagine these results would only be magnified comparing a completely undivided manifold to a completely divided manifold.
__________________
2006 QCLB 4x4 manual vb 47re, Savage Fab He351, exergy 100% overs, flo pro 5" exhaust
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02-25-2017, 07:55 AM
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#9
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Name: 97crewcab
Title: Wrong.
Status: Not Here
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I would like to dyno the two to compare also. We run a fully undivided manifold that we built on our puller, but it was run with an undivided housing on previous turbos. This year we will have a divided turbo housing with our open manifold.
We still have a strait flange steed speed we could compare if we ever get to the engine dyno.
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02-25-2017, 12:36 PM
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#10
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97crewcab
I would like to dyno the two to compare also. We run a fully undivided manifold that we built on our puller, but it was run with an undivided housing on previous turbos. This year we will have a divided turbo housing with our open manifold.
We still have a strait flange steed speed we could compare if we ever get to the engine dyno.
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I wonder if anyone's got an old rusty divided steed lying around they'd let you swap out to do back to back runs on.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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02-25-2017, 12:53 PM
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#11
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Name: kjpcummins
Title: Too Much Time
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Location: leon, ia
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Even when running a turbo with an open exhaust housing. The engine will run better across the board with a divided manifold/header.
__________________
1997 2500 4x4 5spd
2011 2500 4x4 6spd
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02-25-2017, 01:01 PM
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#12
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjpcummins
Even when running a turbo with an open exhaust housing. The engine will run better across the board with a divided manifold/header.
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Let's see some dyno print outs.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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02-25-2017, 01:07 PM
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#13
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Name: kjpcummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: leon, ia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrider2911
Let's see some dyno print outs.
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Your more than welcome to go pay for your own like everyone else has to.
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1997 2500 4x4 5spd
2011 2500 4x4 6spd
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02-25-2017, 02:45 PM
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#14
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Name: dieselpro55
Title: Green Behind the Ears
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Posts: 54
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I would think velocity-spoolup would be greater on divided..for an open I would have to agree with less drive pressure and a slight power bump in top end Rpm's..but then again that's an all out truck..for your typical daily driver it would probably be opposite considering your fuel/heat
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02-25-2017, 03:43 PM
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#15
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
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Posts: 780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjpcummins
Your more than welcome to go pay for your own like everyone else has to.
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I believe everyone in this thread including the OP would want detailed description of your experience with the 2 back to back, or dunk numbers to go with your statement.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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02-25-2017, 03:55 PM
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#16
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
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Posts: 780
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The turbo spools up by a volume of air being forced into the volute, through the small opening at the end and across the turbine at a high velocity. correct? With as long of a volute the turbo has, would it be wrong to suggest that the exhaust manifold more simply acts like a pressure holding tank feeding the turbo volute and that any turbulence in the manifold does not effect the velocity at which the hot air moves across the turbine?
I can see manifold design being very important in a N/A application where you want the exhaust scavenged as quickly as possible between strokes, but when we put a huge restriction right at the manifold wouldn't all that change?
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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02-25-2017, 05:57 PM
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#17
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Name: 97crewcab
Title: Wrong.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Posts: 2,804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorneliusRox
I wonder if anyone's got an old rusty divided steed lying around they'd let you swap out to do back to back runs on.
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Our current manifold puts the turbo out front so it isn't a simple swap. It still may happen this year of we feel the need to try.
I have heard the discussion both ways. One says divided makes more power, the other says as long as the manifold isn't a restriction, it won't matter. This is in a pulling application only, not street or drag racing. As with anything, I would rather get the details myself.
Last edited by 97crewcab; 02-25-2017 at 06:06 PM.
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02-25-2017, 06:14 PM
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#18
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Name: kjpcummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: leon, ia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97crewcab
Our current manifold puts the turbo out front so it isn't a simple swap. It still may happen this year of we feel the need to try.
I have heard the discussion both ways. One says divided makes more power, the other says as long as the manifold isn't a restriction, it won't matter. This is in a pulling application only, not street or drag racing. As with anything, I would rather get the details myself.
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What we're you trying to accomplish by moving the turbo forward like you did?
__________________
1997 2500 4x4 5spd
2011 2500 4x4 6spd
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02-25-2017, 06:22 PM
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#19
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Name: 97crewcab
Title: Wrong.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Posts: 2,804
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Nothing. We wanted it there. It is simple.
Why did your header not place the turbo in the stock location when you made it?
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02-25-2017, 06:30 PM
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#20
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Name: kjpcummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: leon, ia
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Posts: 2,322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97crewcab
Nothing. We wanted it there. It is simple.
Why did your header not place the turbo in the stock location when you made it?
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The reason I moved my turbo had nothing to do with the exhaust side. I built the equal length header simply because I had to build something to get the exhaust to the turbo. The reason I moved my turbo is completely different than the reason you moved yours so I was curious.
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1997 2500 4x4 5spd
2011 2500 4x4 6spd
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