Water injection + Ice = Good idea? Bad Idea?

[JasonCzerak]

Adding a few cubes of ice to cool the water down for injection.

Something tells me it's not a bad idea and might make improvements over ambient water temp.

But please tell me if injecting 40 degree water is a bad idea for some crazy reason reason?

[Signature600]

Can't think why it would be...you'll pull more heat out of the intake air, but I'm not educated enough in physics and chemistry to tell you much more.

I'll wait until someone smarter chimes in!
Chris

[JasonCzerak]

Originally Posted by Signature600

Can't think why it would be...you'll pull more heat out of the intake air, but I'm not educated enough in physics and chemistry to tell you much more.

I'll wait until someone smarter chimes in!
Chris

I'm on the same page with you on the chemistry part.

[EPA Violator]

Jason, I don't think it would hurt anything but the minute amount of cooling and relative small amount of water injected you wouldn't realize a benefit.

[Signature600]

So that means inject more water right...

Chris

[farm boy]

Originally Posted by JasonCzerak

Adding a few cubes of ice to cool the water down for injection.

Something tells me it's not a bad idea and might make improvements over ambient water temp.

But please tell me if injecting 40 degree water is a bad idea for some crazy reason reason?

I have wondered about doing this when Im running at the track.

Let us know how it works out...

[Charles]

Isn't the word on the street that cold water boils faster than hot?

If this is true, then I could see this being of benefit, as the biggest transfer of energy is in converting the heat of the intake air into the task of boiling the water as it changes phase from liquid to gas.

Anybody confirm or deny the allegations that cold water boils quicker?

[JasonCzerak]

I'll give it a shot when things are all buttoned up and I'm back on the rollers.

I hope to find tomorrow open for me to finally assemble the water kit I've been building. so this idea will be testing some time soon.

[Signature600]

Originally Posted by Charles

Isn't the word on the street that cold water boils faster than hot?

If this is true, then I could see this being of benefit, as the biggest transfer of energy is in converting the heat of the intake air into the task of boiling the water as it changes phase from liquid to gas.

Anybody confirm or deny the allegations that cold water boils quicker?

I've always thought it did...but barring boiling some water on the stove and timing it, I don't remember

I was kinda thinking along the same lines as you are, with the change in state being the greatest benefit.

Chris

[JasonCzerak]

Originally Posted by Charles

Isn't the word on the street that cold water boils faster than hot?

If this is true, then I could see this being of benefit, as the biggest transfer of energy is in converting the heat of the intake air into the task of boiling the water as it changes phase from liquid to gas.

Anybody confirm or deny the allegations that cold water boils quicker?

Water Freezing and Boiling Myths: Interesting Thing of the Day

You surprise me with that comment Charles.

[nwpadmax]

99.999% of the cooling is from the latent heat of vaporization (phase change).

You can put ice cubes in if it makes you feel better, but don't expect it to make any real difference.

Water injection is done on gas turbines quite a lot. There was one paper I read where the guys were injecting supercritical water (water pressurized to take it above 212F) and there is some special stuff that goes on with the vaporization from that liquid that gives an additional kick to the latent heat abosorbed by the phase change under those special conditions.


It's always amazing to me, the amount of time devoted to these urban legends, people coming up with all kinds of particle-physics-level explanations for bullchit that even a fifth grader understands intuitively. Shocking....there is no rocket science to boiling or freezing water....

[Charles]

Originally Posted by JasonCzerak

Water Freezing and Boiling Myths: Interesting Thing of the Day

You surprise me with that comment Charles.

Well it never made a lick of sense to me. Hence why I phrased it as "word on the street", lol.

Never understood how something with more energy already stored is going to take longer to reach it's boiling point.

I was just throwing that it out there as a possible way that cold water could help with the water injection, if it were to speed up the time to vaporization like many will tell you it does.

Basically, my response is no, cold water won't make a damn with the phase change making up the lion's share of the work.

[SSpeeDEMONSS]

Originally Posted by Charles

Isn't the word on the street that cold water boils faster than hot?

If this is true, then I could see this being of benefit, as the biggest transfer of energy is in converting the heat of the intake air into the task of boiling the water as it changes phase from liquid to gas.

Anybody confirm or deny the allegations that cold water boils quicker?

cold water does not boil faster. i did a science project back in middle school and hot water would heat up quicker. hot water will freeze faster though.

Garrett

[nwpadmax]

Originally Posted by Charles

...like many will tell you it does.

Many are the ratards!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by nwpadmax

Many are the ratards!

Yet the guy right above you just said hot freezes faster...

Again someone states what makes no sense to me in a matter of fact way.

Thoughts?

[SSpeeDEMONSS]

Originally Posted by Charles

Yet the guy right above you just said hot freezes faster...

Again someone states what makes no sense to me in a matter of fact way.

Thoughts?

i must be one of the ratards too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMpsttlXye8


Garrett

[JasonCzerak]

Originally Posted by SSpeeDEMONSS

cold water does not boil faster. i did a science project back in middle school and hot water would heat up quicker. hot water will freeze faster though.

Garrett

Your experiment that hot water freezes faster is flawed... Did you take into account the fact that 1/2 the hot water evaporated before what's left froze, there for having a smaller amount of water to freeze then the cold water?

I bet you were shocked to see the once "hot water" thaw quicker then the never warmed up water.

So, who's up for running a plane on a treadmill?

[Ph4tty]

Originally Posted by nwpadmax

99.999% of the cooling is from the latent heat of vaporization (phase change).

96.5%, but your point stands. Assuming a delta T of 20 kelvins I came up with 3.5% cooling from the specific heat of straight water. =P

[Turner5.9]

I think it would be a bad idea because water pits the top of your clinder wall and if its was ice cold it looks like it would be worse if you don't have to because water/meth is just untime fuel

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Turner5.9

I think it would be a bad idea because water pits the top of your clinder wall and if its was ice cold it looks like it would be worse if you don't have to because water/meth is just untime fuel

First of all.... it's going to be steam, so in terms of what the cylinder will see, the temperature of the injected water is irrelevant.

Secondly, I think you're the first instance of the word "meth" in the entire thread.

I assume the guy is running straight water, or hopefully water with some water-soluble oil in it. No methanol.