Blue smoke observations...Ideas? - Competition Diesel.Com

Greg5OH · 03-10-2017, 12:34 PM

Some observations about my heavy blue smoke.

15 deg timing, injectors are good, compression good, grid heater works.

Trucks starts quick, lets out a big plume of white/grey smoke. This is fine as its cold and got some unburn diesel.
runs rough for a few seconds needs some pedal to keep it running then smooths out.

Within 10 seconds thick blue smoke starts rolling out and will continue hazing blue (not whitish blue, pure blue) until the temp gauge starts moving past 120F.

Zero smoke when warm.

The smoke lasts far too long for it to just be valve stem seals.

I noticed if i start driving within 30-60s after initial start, the truck will run super rough if i give it more fuel to accelerate. will misfire heavily and roll a ton of blue smoke. This also makes me think it is not valve stem seals..

Any ideas?

BigPapa · 03-10-2017, 01:01 PM

Checked your turbo lately? Both sides of the cold air.

Greg5OH · 03-10-2017, 01:02 PM

Yes, clean on intake side, no axial play, just regular soot on turbine side.
I had my intake horn off couple weeks ago and no oil in there either.

sootie · 03-10-2017, 01:20 PM

is your fuel gelling? how cold?

Greg5OH · 03-10-2017, 01:26 PM

no, does this anywhere from -10 to +60. Bought the truck Nov 2016 so have not operated it in summer temps.
the colder it is the heavier the blue smoke is.
I am in MI.

Also has a new mech fuel pump, new filter, and new OFV from Larry B

Greg5OH · 03-10-2017, 02:38 PM

An interesting piece of info too:
the engine is super docile and quiet whencold started.
Sounds like an old merc 300sd. just smooth purr.
Its not untill its up to temp that it has the characteristic cackly snappy 12v sound these are known for...
Blue smoke, misfires when cold and lay into the fuel (pops smoke rings out the exhaust..), sounds like super retarded injection timing?

Can a Ppump dynamicaly retard the injection timing somehow?

*Snedge* · 03-10-2017, 03:11 PM

Does the smoke smell like oil or fuel?

Have you tried cracking one injection line at a time to see if the smoke changes?

Greg5OH · 03-10-2017, 03:15 PM

^i have not tried cracking injector 1 by 1. Something to try for sure.
To me it smells like fuel (the exhaust)...
I know burning oil smell, it is quite acrid...this just smells like cold diesel really...
and my oil level does not change.

*Snedge* · 03-10-2017, 03:26 PM

I would bet that you have an injector nozzle dripping, or a plunger sticking. Most likely an injector.

Greg5OH · 03-10-2017, 03:28 PM

how come it did that with brand new injectors too though?
I then ultra sonic cleaned my stock ones and same deal.

a plunger sticking...are these plungers in the pump?

the odd thing is..arent 12v supposed to be stupid loud on cold start too? Why is mine so quiet.

thanks for the responses keep em coming. Im sure this issue will be resolved in no time with your help!

*Snedge* · 03-10-2017, 03:42 PM

Well, if you've tried another set of injectors, there is no chance that an injector is the issue. Cracking the lines may point you to an issue with the pump though.

It definitely sounds like a fuel issue to me.

Greg5OH · 03-10-2017, 03:54 PM

^yessir me too.

Im not one for additives but another interesting note,
i tried liqi moly diesel purge originally as the first thing in a closed loop (bypass the fuel tank)
cold engine, once the liqui moly hit, there was no oil smoke for 5 mins. drained the can, hooked lines back up to the tank, and then the blue smoke started again.

I almost dont want to mention that as it throws another wrench into the equation, or simply the additives in it burn so clean that the underlying fuel issue does not matter. But maybe that piece of info will help someone.

going against my convention, this mornign i threw in a bottle of power service, going on a long drive tomorrow, well see on sunday when i fire it up after sitting overnight how the smoke situation is..

that being said, if it is still smoking sunday morning, Ill try cracking the injectors 1 by 1

Greg5OH · 03-12-2017, 03:57 PM

some more info i observed yesterdsay during my 350 mile trip

sometimes when i idled it hazed blue...other times not.

then sometimes when i free reved it (stab of the pedal) it would stumble misfire and cough hard, shoot white and blue smoke everywhre

other times it woudl free rev completely fine to whatever it should rev to (i dont have a tach)...
replacing fuel filter on monday but i doubt thats it..

could it be a fuel starvation issue? remeber, new larry bs overflow valve isntalled.

DDually · 03-12-2017, 04:14 PM

I just skimmed but have you tried a fuel filter? What is your fuel pressure?

Also PPumps don't like to free rev. I've had some that can free fine without popping and sputtering and others that pop and sputter terribly.

BRE · 03-12-2017, 04:36 PM

Have you verified timing is set correct and hasn't slipped?
Part of your symptoms kinda sound like retarded timing.

jasonc · 03-12-2017, 05:04 PM

That sounds just like when an overflow valve spring breaks, have you checked that.

Greg5OH · 03-13-2017, 08:18 AM

yes it is verified at 15.5 deg timing.
ofv is new from Larrys Bs.
i do need to get a gauge on there..otherwise we are just shooting dice..
new filter going on tonight.

could it be a clogged fuel pickup screen??

WUnderwood · 03-13-2017, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg5OH

could it be a clogged fuel pickup screen??

Lets see what the fuel pressure gauge says, otherwise, we are shooting in the dark.

Greg5OH · 03-13-2017, 08:24 AM

roger. best place to hook the gauge up?

*Snedge* · 03-13-2017, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WUnderwood

Lets see what the fuel pressure gauge says, otherwise, we are shooting in the dark.

Isn't that how we roll? I mean, if everyone was able to follow proper troubleshoot processes, we would not be here.

03-10-2017, 12:34 PM	#1
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	Blue smoke observations...Ideas? Some observations about my heavy blue smoke. 15 deg timing, injectors are good, compression good, grid heater works. Trucks starts quick, lets out a big plume of white/grey smoke. This is fine as its cold and got some unburn diesel. runs rough for a few seconds needs some pedal to keep it running then smooths out. Within 10 seconds thick blue smoke starts rolling out and will continue hazing blue (not whitish blue, pure blue) until the temp gauge starts moving past 120F. Zero smoke when warm. The smoke lasts far too long for it to just be valve stem seals. I noticed if i start driving within 30-60s after initial start, the truck will run super rough if i give it more fuel to accelerate. will misfire heavily and roll a ton of blue smoke. This also makes me think it is not valve stem seals.. Any ideas?

03-10-2017, 01:01 PM	#2
BigPapa Name: BigPapa Title: Truckless Status: Not Here Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Springfield, TN Member`s Gallery Posts: 5,041	Checked your turbo lately? Both sides of the cold air. __________________ Scott 2003 Avalanche Z71 Common sense is like deodorant. The people that need it most never use it.

03-10-2017, 01:02 PM	#3
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	Yes, clean on intake side, no axial play, just regular soot on turbine side. I had my intake horn off couple weeks ago and no oil in there either. Last edited by Greg5OH; 03-10-2017 at 01:04 PM.

03-10-2017, 01:26 PM	#5
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	no, does this anywhere from -10 to +60. Bought the truck Nov 2016 so have not operated it in summer temps. the colder it is the heavier the blue smoke is. I am in MI. Also has a new mech fuel pump, new filter, and new OFV from Larry B Last edited by Greg5OH; 03-10-2017 at 01:28 PM.

03-10-2017, 03:11 PM	#7
Snedge Name: Snedge Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor Status: Not Here Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Western Pa. Member`s Gallery Posts: 18,860	Does the smoke smell like oil or fuel? Have you tried cracking one injection line at a time to see if the smoke changes? Last edited by Snedge; 03-10-2017 at 03:22 PM.

03-10-2017, 01:20 PM	#4
sootie Name: sootie Title: .....like a BAWSS Status: Not Here Join Date: Jan 2013 Member`s Gallery Posts: 866	is your fuel gelling? how cold?

03-10-2017, 02:38 PM	#6
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	An interesting piece of info too: the engine is super docile and quiet whencold started. Sounds like an old merc 300sd. just smooth purr. Its not untill its up to temp that it has the characteristic cackly snappy 12v sound these are known for... Blue smoke, misfires when cold and lay into the fuel (pops smoke rings out the exhaust..), sounds like super retarded injection timing? Can a Ppump dynamicaly retard the injection timing somehow?

03-10-2017, 03:15 PM	#8
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	^i have not tried cracking injector 1 by 1. Something to try for sure. To me it smells like fuel (the exhaust)... I know burning oil smell, it is quite acrid...this just smells like cold diesel really... and my oil level does not change.

03-10-2017, 03:26 PM	#9
Snedge Name: Snedge Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor Status: Not Here Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Western Pa. Member`s Gallery Posts: 18,860	I would bet that you have an injector nozzle dripping, or a plunger sticking. Most likely an injector.

03-10-2017, 03:28 PM	#10
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	how come it did that with brand new injectors too though? I then ultra sonic cleaned my stock ones and same deal. a plunger sticking...are these plungers in the pump? the odd thing is..arent 12v supposed to be stupid loud on cold start too? Why is mine so quiet. thanks for the responses keep em coming. Im sure this issue will be resolved in no time with your help!

03-10-2017, 03:42 PM	#11
Snedge Name: Snedge Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor Status: Not Here Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Western Pa. Member`s Gallery Posts: 18,860	Well, if you've tried another set of injectors, there is no chance that an injector is the issue. Cracking the lines may point you to an issue with the pump though. It definitely sounds like a fuel issue to me.

03-10-2017, 03:54 PM	#12
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	^yessir me too. Im not one for additives but another interesting note, i tried liqi moly diesel purge originally as the first thing in a closed loop (bypass the fuel tank) cold engine, once the liqui moly hit, there was no oil smoke for 5 mins. drained the can, hooked lines back up to the tank, and then the blue smoke started again. I almost dont want to mention that as it throws another wrench into the equation, or simply the additives in it burn so clean that the underlying fuel issue does not matter. But maybe that piece of info will help someone. going against my convention, this mornign i threw in a bottle of power service, going on a long drive tomorrow, well see on sunday when i fire it up after sitting overnight how the smoke situation is.. that being said, if it is still smoking sunday morning, Ill try cracking the injectors 1 by 1

03-12-2017, 03:57 PM	#13
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	some more info i observed yesterdsay during my 350 mile trip sometimes when i idled it hazed blue...other times not. then sometimes when i free reved it (stab of the pedal) it would stumble misfire and cough hard, shoot white and blue smoke everywhre other times it woudl free rev completely fine to whatever it should rev to (i dont have a tach)... replacing fuel filter on monday but i doubt thats it.. could it be a fuel starvation issue? remeber, new larry bs overflow valve isntalled.

03-12-2017, 04:14 PM	#14
DDually Name: DDually Title: Still spooling.. Status: Not Here Join Date: Nov 2009 Member`s Gallery Posts: 2,095	I just skimmed but have you tried a fuel filter? What is your fuel pressure? Also PPumps don't like to free rev. I've had some that can free fine without popping and sputtering and others that pop and sputter terribly. __________________ 1995 Cummins with almost no matching paint, 2 dents 2001 VW TDI South bend, tune, nozzys, custom stuff that's rusting, one custom thing that's not rusting

03-12-2017, 05:04 PM	#16
jasonc Name: jasonc Title: Too Much Time Status: Not Here Join Date: Nov 2009 Member`s Gallery Posts: 4,412	That sounds just like when an overflow valve spring breaks, have you checked that.

03-13-2017, 08:18 AM	#17
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	yes it is verified at 15.5 deg timing. ofv is new from Larrys Bs. i do need to get a gauge on there..otherwise we are just shooting dice.. new filter going on tonight. could it be a clogged fuel pickup screen??

03-13-2017, 08:24 AM	#19
Greg5OH Name: Greg5OH Title: Green Behind the Ears Status: Not Here Join Date: Feb 2017 Member`s Gallery Posts: 55	roger. best place to hook the gauge up?