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Old 09-18-2018, 08:08 PM   #21
runsideways2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95cummins5.9 View Post
Got a link? What all is involved to add one? What size barrels ? Hows the timing work
I'm not going to post a link to a page that got me charged with trolling. D89 is a mod over there and he made a assumption that nobody else could get a h pump retrofitted to a 12 valve and deleted my post. Its upsetting that someone would suspend me because I might be tearing Into his profit that he is trying to turn out of what is suppose to be a place for help when we have issues with our trucks as there is not to many shops out there that work on these ol'12 valves. Let alone do something that is good for performance and Mother nature.
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:16 PM   #22
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When I get home I will post more pics of the pump on my truck, & all the gory details of what is required in order fit it to the motor.
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10 initial timing, 39 total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:22 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by cut7 View Post
When I get home I will post more pics of the pump on my truck, & all the gory details of what is required in order fit it to the motor.

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Old 09-18-2018, 08:35 PM   #24
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This is just my ignorant outside opinion......if it was worth swapping I.E. gaining something useful, don't you think someone like Scheid or columbus diesel would sell swap kits?
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:43 PM   #25
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Nazi Germany on cf
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puzzy, tune it.

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Old 09-18-2018, 08:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9 LIVES View Post
This is just my ignorant outside opinion......if it was worth swapping I.E. gaining something useful, don't you think someone like Scheid or columbus diesel would sell swap kits?
They will sell what makes them a profit. Limited/niche market items won't make much profit.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:45 PM   #27
runsideways2

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You have to go Germany to get a RP39. :-)
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:47 PM   #28
runsideways2

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Originally Posted by 95cummins5.9 View Post
Nazi Germany on cf
No NAZISM here. I'm trying to be helpful since the "unicorn pump" will be working soon for me.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:57 AM   #29
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As promised, here are a few pics of what it looks like in the truck. As you can see, it's buried so far down in there that you can't really see that much. However, it is clearly an H-pump because it has no throttle linkage. The pic that Runsideways posted is much clearer because it was taken whilst the engine was on the stand.


Now onto the basic operation of the pump, & why it is so vastly superior to anything else out there.


It is an inline pump with a MUCH larger cam, thereby moving greater quantities of fuel at substantially higher pressure that a P-pump could ever dream of doing. Numbers? About 180% more fuel & 350 bar higher peak pressure than a P-pump. (A P-pump peaks at around 1100 bar, the H-pump peaks at 1450 bar.) But the best part about it? It has that magical second rack that adjusts timing! You time this pump exactly as you would a P-pump. Mine is set for an initial timing of 10 (for ease of starting, quiet non-rattlely idle, & quick spooling) however, the pump can move that all the way to 40! And the two racks (fueling & timing) are totally independent of each other.


Unfortunately, the pump is NOT — as was alluded to earlier in this thread — a direct bolt-up; not even close! It requires machine work on the pump & the housing. Then you need to figure out how to oil it, & drain said oil from the pump to prevent hydrolock. And you have to figure out how to drive it. As I stated previously, the pump has a much larger cam in it. Even if you know how to machine a tapered hole you'd hit air on the stock gear before you got large enough to fit the pump cam; if you could figure out the angle of the taper (which I will tell you this much, it's not standard.) Plus you need to fabricate a new rear mount (the one from your P-pump won't work) & clearance the tappet cover. Then, because the pump is 50mm taller than a P-pump, you need to fabricate injector lines, & most likely make a new air horn (because the pump will foul it as it is taller).


Presuming you have the pump mounted to — & driven by — the motor, you now need a way to control it, as there is no provision to mechanically move the racks; they are actuated electromagnetically. This means you need a bunch of sensors on the motor, which would, at a minimum, include: crank position sensor (with a reluctor wheel), accelerator pedal position sensor, coolant temp sensor, & mass air flow meter. And finally, you need to make an electronic controller, because there isn't anything out there commercially available.

If all this sounds incredibly complex, that's because it is! Was it worth it? Emphatically, yes! The truck is a joy to drive, with an exceedingly wide power band. I won't tell you my peak numbers, but I have a minimum of 1000 ft-lbs between 1100 & 4200 rpm. Yes it really is that wide! And the reason is because I can vary my timing. Timing is key! And the importance of variable timing cannot be overstated. Basically, when P-pump trucks (setup for the street) peak out at about 2700 rpm (because of timing) I can rev anther 1500 rpm; & make power all the way there!

I tried to load a video of the truck running, but I kept getting an error. Any ideas?
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10 initial timing, 39 total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.

Last edited by cut7; 09-19-2018 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:21 AM   #30
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Here a video of it starting & running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VqKqEsvoLU

I don't know how to embed it. Mods, if you want embed it, go ahead.
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10 initial timing, 39 total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.
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Old 09-19-2018, 09:40 AM   #31
runsideways2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cut7 View Post
Here a video of it starting & running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VqKqEsvoLU

I don't know how to embed it. Mods, if you want embed it, go ahead.
Proof is now posted "IT'S ALIVE!!!"
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:11 AM   #32
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What controller was used? I saw the heat sinks.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:13 AM   #33
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Cost benefit of this vs common rail over 5 yes, 10yrs? (hypothetically)

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Old 09-19-2018, 10:13 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cut7 View Post
Here a video of it starting & running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VqKqEsvoLU

I don't know how to embed it. Mods, if you want embed it, go ahead.
Take the "s" out of the "https" and it'll embed.

Very cool setup. I'm interested!
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:15 AM   #35
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Can a mechanical governor and AFC be swapped on to the H-Pump? It would be nice to only have to control the timing rack electronically.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:15 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cut7 View Post

Unfortunately, the pump is NOT as was alluded to earlier in this thread a direct bolt-up; not even close!
Just to be clear, I didn't say it was a direct bolt up. I said IF the pilot and bolt pattern were the same. There is more than one version or engine application of this pump. I was simply speaking in general terms that the install on the engine was relatively easy as compared to the controls.
It is an interesting concept and I've often wondered when working on these pumps "what if" Dodge had used these on the 24 valves instead of a VP44.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:19 AM   #37
cut7

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Originally Posted by biggy238 View Post
Cost benefit of this vs common rail over 5 yes, 10yrs? (hypothetically)
Good question! Because these pumps have constant pressure valves as opposed to delivery valves they approach common rail pressure throughout the injection cycle. Therefore, atomization & as a result, mileage is very good. Plus, I have more power potential than a common rail; remember, these pumps come off motors that are rated between 1500-2000 hp, at 100% duty cycle! Ultimately, it's much cheaper to maintain. The pump is very reliable; I've heard of them lasting 15,000 hours between rebuilds. The injectors are stock units, we know how reliable those are, not to mention cheap to purchase  unlike common rail injectors which are $$$! When you want to get big power out of a CR, you have spend BIG bucks (multiple CP3 pumps, big injectors, etc.) & those CP3 pumps aren't that reliable; I've seen quite a few fail.


The one thing a common rail can do that I can't is pilot injection, which does quiet down the motor a bit at idle.
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10 initial timing, 39 total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:22 AM   #38
cut7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggy238 View Post
What controller was used? I saw the heat sinks.
I'm not sure what you're seeing, the controller is my own design, & it's in the cab, anyway. But you are correct in presuming it needs heat sinks for the final signal amplification, because the pump draws about 15 amps at full throttle.
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10 initial timing, 39 total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:28 AM   #39
cut7

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Originally Posted by CatDieselPower View Post
Can a mechanical governor and AFC be swapped on to the H-Pump? It would be nice to only have to control the timing rack electronically.
Not without an enormous amount of machine work. But it begs the question, why? You'd be losing a lot of the benefits of the pump. If you're going to build a controller, might at well have it command both racks. My controller also controls the waste gates on both of my turbos.
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10 initial timing, 39 total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:42 AM   #40
cut7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotadzl View Post
Just to be clear, I didn't say it was a direct bolt up. I said IF the pilot and bolt pattern were the same. There is more than one version or engine application of this pump. I was simply speaking in general terms that the install on the engine was relatively easy as compared to the controls.

Don't worry, no offense taken. I just want to be clear that this is an undertaking of considerable magnitude to tackle. I have several versions of this pump, & have studied the inner workings of these pumps extensively before settling on the exact model I used. So that there is no confusion about this, none of the H-pumps I've seen & I've seen quite a few are a direct bolt up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotadzl View Post
It is an interesting concept and I've often wondered when working on these pumps "what if" Dodge had used these on the 24 valves instead of a VP44.
I am confident that if that was the case, those trucks would have been far & away the most desirable, & would've dominated all the pulling contests.
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10 initial timing, 39 total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.
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