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Old 09-19-2018, 11:46 AM   #41
cut7

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Originally Posted by 9 LIVES View Post
This is just my ignorant outside opinion......if it was worth swapping I.E. gaining something useful, don't you think someone like Scheid or columbus diesel would sell swap kits?
If they could figure out how to do it...
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:47 AM   #42
CatDieselPower

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Originally Posted by cut7 View Post
Not without an enormous amount of machine work. But it begs the question, why? You'd be losing a lot of the benefits of the pump. If you're going to build a controller, might at well have it command both racks. My controller also controls the waste gates on both of my turbos.
I get it, but a large part of the the appeal of the P-Pump is that it does not rely on electronics to get the job done. I just thought that if you could still have the fuel rack controlled mechanically, you would retain some of that reliability. Then the timing rack, even though it is controlled electronically, I assume would just revert to the base timing if the electronics or the controller had an issue. It seems like it would be the best of both worlds.

PS, I just want to add, I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into this project. It really seems like a great setup.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:54 AM   #43
Redrider2911

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Originally Posted by CatDieselPower View Post
I get it, but a large part of the the appeal of the P-Pump is that it does not rely on electronics to get the job done. I just thought that if you could still have the fuel rack controlled mechanically, you would retain some of that reliability. Then the timing rack, even though it is controlled electronically, I assume would just revert to the base timing if the electronics or the controller had an issue. It seems like it would be the best of both worlds.

PS, I just want to add, I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into this project. It really seems like a great setup.
This is exactly the appeal my thought process as well, though now I have actually gone way from that recently and am now fully controlling my 47RH electronically with megasquirt.

But something I have thought about with the p7100 is implementing an aftermarket centrifugal pump gear that would adjust timing based on RPM. I know there were some dozers that used a setup like that. The main hurdle would be consistent timing advance while overcoming the torque it takes to drive the p7100 in itself.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:58 AM   #44
cut7

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Originally Posted by CatDieselPower View Post
I get it, but a large part of the the appeal of the P-Pump is that it does not rely on electronics to get the job done. I just thought that if you could still have the fuel rack controlled mechanically, you would retain some of that reliability. Then the timing rack, even though it is controlled electronically, I assume would just revert to the base timing if the electronics or the controller had an issue. It seems like it would be the best of both worlds.
I understand your concerns, but the H-pump is at least as reliable as the P-pump; at least in my opinion. And modern electronics are very reliable if you keep them away from heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatDieselPower View Post
PS, I just want to add, I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into this project. It really seems like a great setup.
Thank you, sir!
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:10 PM   #45
cut7

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Originally Posted by Redrider2911 View Post
This is exactly the appeal my thought process as well, though now I have actually gone way from that recently and am now fully controlling my 47RH electronically with megasquirt.

But something I have thought about with the p7100 is implementing an aftermarket centrifugal pump gear that would adjust timing based on RPM. I know there were some dozers that used a setup like that. The main hurdle would be consistent timing advance while overcoming the torque it takes to drive the p7100 in itself.
I also looked at a centrifugal advance unit for the P-pump years ago. I think Cat used them for a little while. But good luck trying to find one of those; they are the proverbial unicorn! Also, they push the pump back about 250mm, making for all sorts of clearance issues. And it is my understanding that they were neither consistent nor reliable. Unlike the weights & springs in an old fashion gas engine distributor — which weigh just a few grams — the mechanical pieces would have to be quite large & very robust in order to handle the torque required to drive the P-pump.
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:35 PM   #46
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Control in this imageClick the image to open in full size.

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Old 09-19-2018, 02:37 PM   #47
cut7

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Control in this imageClick the image to open in full size.
Good eye! But that has nothing to do with my pump. That is the controller I use for the heater grids.


Let's see what else Hawkeye can catch in this photo.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:56 PM   #48
cut7

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Originally Posted by SmokeShow View Post
Very cool setup. I'm interested!
Thank you, kind Sir!
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:14 PM   #49
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I am confident that if that was the case, those trucks would have been far & away the most desirable, & would've dominated all the pulling contests.
I may have missed it, but I'm guessing yours is a 12v, have you thought about doing a 24v to see? Possibly doing retro fit kits to order?

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Old 09-19-2018, 03:19 PM   #50
cut7

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Originally Posted by J-Pipes View Post
I may have missed it, but I'm guessing yours is a 12v, have you thought about doing a 24v to see? Possibly doing retro fit kits to order?
I could do it to a 24v with just about the same amount of work. I have actually had a few inquiries. Anybody interested? PM me.
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10° initial timing, 39° total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:20 PM   #51
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What is attached to the injection line? Timing sensor?

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Old 09-19-2018, 03:26 PM   #52
cut7

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Originally Posted by biggy238 View Post
What is attached to the injection line? Timing sensor?
Eagle-eye scores again! You are correct.

Keep looking.
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Last edited by cut7; 09-19-2018 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:42 PM   #53
Yotadzl

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Don't worry, no offense taken. I just want to be clear that this is an undertaking of considerable magnitude to tackle. I have several versions of this pump, & have studied the inner workings of these pumps extensively before settling on the exact model I used. So that there is no confusion about this, none of the H-pumps I've seen — & I've seen quite a few — are a direct bolt up.


I am confident that if that was the case, those trucks would have been far & away the most desirable, & would've dominated all the pulling contests.
Just out of curiosity, did you consider trying to use an engine controller or at least some of the components from an engine controller off of say a Volvo engine that used the H pump as a starting point? I thought about it in the past and figured maybe it would be a good starting point if you could crack it.
It is impressive what you have accomplished there. I look forward to reading more about it.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:56 PM   #54
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It’s in a Ford.
Electronic control of the wastegate.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:13 PM   #55
cut7

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Originally Posted by Yotadzl View Post
Just out of curiosity, did you consider trying to use an engine controller or at least some of the components from an engine controller off of say a Volvo engine that used the H pump as a starting point? I thought about it in the past and figured maybe it would be a good starting point if you could crack it.
Short answer. Yes, but I realized quickly it wouldn't do everything I wanted it to, & it would be more work adapting it (for technical reasons I won't detail here) than starting from scratch. So I abandoned that idea & made my own.

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It is impressive what you have accomplished there. I look forward to reading more about it.
Thank you, my good man!
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6BT Fummins, EFR 7064 over S369; DPS 3-piece manifold; wide-bowl pistons; ported head with 48mm intake & 45mm exhaust valves; 60 lb. valve springs; Colt stage 3 cam; H-1000 injection pump, 10° initial timing, 39° total advance; 5x14 Injectors popped to 325 bar; Fluidampr.

Last edited by cut7; 09-19-2018 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:14 PM   #56
cut7

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It’s in a Ford.
Electronic control of the wastegate.
Yes the waste gates — both of them — are electronically controlled, but I'm not use the Ford PCM to do it. The Ford signal is meant to control a VGT.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:50 PM   #57
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Very cool, you certainly have more skill/patience than I will ever have. You don't have to worry about getting banned over here, we are pretty lenient on the rules.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:45 PM   #58
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Yes the waste gates — both of them — are electronically controlled, but I'm not use the Ford PCM to do it. The Ford signal is meant to control a VGT.
I was not expecting you to be using the Ford PCM to control it, just noticed that it’s in a Ford.
This is really, really cool! Kudos to you!
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:34 PM   #59
runsideways2

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Very cool, you certainly have more skill/patience than I will ever have. You don't have to worry about getting banned over here, we are pretty lenient on the rules.
I was worried about getting suspend since I was so called being a troll and getting my post deleted like I did on CF. I know people are watching this thread closely to see what details are brought to the table. So I will be the second person to have a actual h pumped truck in the world thanks to CUT7. If anybody has a H pump running please post on this thread even if you dont want to post how or what you had to do it's fine. We would all like to drool over it, like I do over cut7 setup its actually my new wallpaper on my phone.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:24 PM   #60
cut7

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Very cool, you certainly have more skill/patience than I will ever have.
Thank you, sir! Perhaps a bit of an introduction is in order. I am an Electro-Mechanical Engineer (actually a dual major, Masters in Mechanical Engineering, & Masters in Electrical Engineering. I've been in the high performance automotive & motorcycle industry for over 30 years. Several of my motors are record holders. I've designed a lot of things other engineers said couldn't be done. As far as I know, I'm the only guy who has figured out how to balance the counter-balancer shaft on a single cylinder engine. Or how to make an XR-750 flatrack motor last more than 2 races. I know all about performance & how to make motors go fast...& stay together! Engine management is one of my specialties. So you see, this really wasn't much of a stretch for me. I apologize if this sounds a bit hubris; I just thought a bit of my background might help the forum understand how & why I did it.

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You don't have to worry about getting banned over here, we are pretty lenient on the rules.
Runsideways said that he was going to put an RP39/H-1000 pump on his truck in a lengthy thread on CF about that very subject. They ridiculed him, called him a liar, then banned him & deleted his post; as they did to me over a year ago when all I was trying to do was add valuable information to thread (seeing as I had already done the project the thread starter was attempting).

My take on this is the thread starter (who is a mod over there, & who is using much of my engineering for his project — though he refuses to give me any credit) now works for a fairly well known diesel shop & they/he are trying to put together a kit to sell. Which is ironic because according to him, there are only two H-pumps in existence. (Not true, I have several).


Anyway, this is why runsideways was concerned about getting banned. I still can't understand why they were so hostile to him (& me) except the aforementioned speculation. But at any rate, I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone; especially on that forum (bunch of bozos). But remember, you saw it here first.
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