Advertisement |
|
|
|
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
|
Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
01-30-2007, 11:26 AM
|
#1
|
Name: c-hawk
Title: Liberals Suck...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 670
|
3rd gens... HP/TQ vs 1/4mile et's
I'm curious how much power it takes to run a given et with a 3rd gen truck...
I know there are a ton of variables, but to narrow it down, assume a quad cab, short bed, 4x4, auto truck (since these seem to be one of the most common setups).
How much hp to run a...
13.00 ?
12.50 ?
12.00 ?
11.50 ?
It seems to me the 3rd gens are incredibly slow for the hp and tq they make on a dyno. Why is this? Are they ridiculously heavy? Narrow or peaky powerbands? My 24 vp truck dynoed 611hp/1200tq on david's dynojet and ran consistent high 11's. This was a quad cab, sb, 4x4 auto weighing 7000lbs.
I'm serioulsy considering a 3rd gen but the performance numbers haven't really impressed me. Well, the dyno numbers have, but the track times haven't.
Thanks,
Chris
__________________
2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 - SBC OFE, Mach 1.2, Smarty...
www.TNT-Power.com
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 02:47 PM
|
#2
|
Name: edgerat
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 282
|
COMP ran a 11.68 I think with 800 someodd HP in a 2wd version. I think the 3rd gen trucks might a tad heavier based on the extra FULL door back there but I dont know for certain.
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 03:35 PM
|
#3
|
Name: Billyram
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N.Augusta,SC
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 607
|
I ran 12.70s and low .80s at 540 hp and my truck is at 7150 lbs.
I ran 12.50s and low .60s at 567 hp.
__________________
Billy
04.5 Blue Ram
Garmon built tranny
SunCoast ProLoc
II Dragonflows
Wicked's Dragonslayer
Smarty
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 03:43 PM
|
#4
|
Name: Timbeaux
Title: Administrator and Head Thread Derailer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Heart of Dixie
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,238
|
Good thread Chris. I wonder if the Peak #'s we see out of the 3rd gens are spikier in nature? Do the 2nd gens both 12v and 24v have a flatter power curve?
__________________
COMPETITIONDIESEL.COM BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER
F250(DD) ANOTHER TRUCK (PROGRAM) NO LIMIT FAB, DIESEL SOUTH, DC CUSTOMS
Quote:
"I just love everything about racing. I wanna race every single day. Its nothing for me to be cutting grass and the neighbor hoss the gas on his mower, and there we are, lined up in the the middle of the street." - Stevie KillinTime Jackson
|
"A gainst stupidity, the gods themselves fight unvictorious."
中
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 05:14 PM
|
#5
|
Name: Toolman
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southern Michigan
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,077
|
The 3nd Gens are allot heavier my truck weighs in at 7200 with everything I can take out of it to race. But I agree some of the trucks put up some great dyno numbers and can't do anything on the track. I think it has allot to do with getting the power to the ground too.
__________________
04.5 Dodge ,PPE Dual Fueler, Stainless Diesel, Bullseye Power Turbo, Fass Fuel Systems, M & J Tool Converter and shafts, Smarty UDC Tuning , Isspro Gauges, Fluidampr
B&B Tooling 269-496-9021
B & B Tooling Intakes and custom machined parts.
Member of Drive by Wire Mafia
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 05:29 PM
|
#6
|
Name: c-hawk
Title: Liberals Suck...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 670
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerat
COMP ran a 11.68 I think with 800 someodd HP in a 2wd version. I think the 3rd gen trucks might a tad heavier based on the extra FULL door back there but I dont know for certain.
|
Do you know what the mph was on that run? With a two wheel drive truck traction may have been an issue. I mean, if 800+hp is only good for an 11.68 that seems kinda slow i think. I don't know...
Thanks
__________________
2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 - SBC OFE, Mach 1.2, Smarty...
www.TNT-Power.com
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 05:35 PM
|
#7
|
Name: c-hawk
Title: Liberals Suck...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 670
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyram
I ran 12.70s and low .80s at 540 hp and my truck is at 7150 lbs.
I ran 12.50s and low .60s at 567 hp.
|
Thanks for the info.
Some more numbers to chew on...
My good friend ran a 12.30 and a 12.36 with a dyno proven 516hp and less then 1000tq. This is an 01 qc sb 4x4 with DTT auto. Seems fast for the hp.
On the other hand, i think his truck is about 6800 lbs, so it may be largely a weight difference that accounts for the et differences.
I'm interested to see some more peoples thoughts on this topic.
Thanks much,
Chris
__________________
2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 - SBC OFE, Mach 1.2, Smarty...
www.TNT-Power.com
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 05:36 PM
|
#8
|
Name: c-hawk
Title: Liberals Suck...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 670
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolman
The 3nd Gens are allot heavier my truck weighs in at 7200 with everything I can take out of it to race. But I agree some of the trucks put up some great dyno numbers and can't do anything on the track. I think it has allot to do with getting the power to the ground too.
|
I'm thinking your probably right.
__________________
2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 - SBC OFE, Mach 1.2, Smarty...
www.TNT-Power.com
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 05:39 PM
|
#9
|
Name: c-hawk
Title: Liberals Suck...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 670
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbeaux38
Good thread Chris. I wonder if the Peak #'s we see out of the 3rd gens are spikier in nature? Do the 2nd gens both 12v and 24v have a flatter power curve?
|
Thanks Tim.
Maybe i've missed it, but i don't recall ever seeing this discussed. I really am wondering. From the replies here it seems that weight is one major factor. But still, it seems that there may be more to it then this.
Hopefully this thread will get a good number of replies and i can get a good idea of how these trucks turn HP into ET.
I really am starting to want one...
Chris
__________________
2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 - SBC OFE, Mach 1.2, Smarty...
www.TNT-Power.com
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 06:11 PM
|
#10
|
Name: bdp
Title: beans diesel performance
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,730
|
Lets see some comparison dyno sheets. Would be nice if David would pull out some sheets like a 600hp 12v, 600hp 24v and a 600hp cr and compare the graphs. It wouldnt be totally scientific but would be nice to look at.
__________________
www.beansdieselperformance.com
The Smokin' Hot Hooker- 2002 F350-6.7 CRD Sponsored by South Bend Clutch, Woodruff Diesel, Floor It Diesel
bdp Drag Truck- 81 C10 5.9 bdp built- Sponsors-Arrow Engine Machine, BTS Transmissions, Snow Performance, NX, Carrilo Rods, Mahle Pistons
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 09:32 PM
|
#11
|
Name: ramctd
Title: AKA RamWheelsBy4
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,417
|
Mine weighs close to 7300lbs with me in it at the track. 3rd gens also loose a little to aeordynamics and it does add up.
I ran 13.2s with TST/EZ/BDTD stack and dyno'd around 525rwhp. Switched to the Smarty and ran 12.7s and dyno'd around 570rwhp.
A lot does depend on driver and TC/Trans and what boost levels you can launch at to get the power on the ground and rolling.
__________________
2004.5 2500 QC SLT 4x4 CTD Auto
Studs, Springs, Flux 2s, Silver Bullet, II Bag of Parts, AFE Stage II, 6" Stack, Billet TC/Trans by HotRodDiesels, TST R49, MP-8, Smarty TNT/R.
12.43s @ 108.48
|
|
|
01-30-2007, 11:11 PM
|
#12
|
Name: TJSHOTROD
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 258
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramctd
Mine weighs close to 7300lbs with me in it at the track. 3rd gens also loose a little to aeordynamics and it does add up.
I ran 13.2s with TST/EZ/BDTD stack and dyno'd around 525rwhp. Switched to the Smarty and ran 12.7s and dyno'd around 570rwhp.
A lot does depend on driver and TC/Trans and what boost levels you can launch at to get the power on the ground and rolling.
|
How are you guys coming up with this weight and aerodynamics of a 3rd gen being worse than a 2nd gen. I do not know what 3rd gens weigh but my 2nd gen weighs 7300 pounds and I do not think Dodge would spend 100's of thousand of dollars on wind tunnel test to make a less aerodynamic truck.
__________________
01HO Dodge on 37's with Twins
|
|
|
01-31-2007, 12:13 AM
|
#13
|
Name: edgerat
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 282
|
To the naked eye the 3rd gens look like they have more GRILL on em than the second gens.
|
|
|
01-31-2007, 08:11 AM
|
#14
|
Name: ramctd
Title: AKA RamWheelsBy4
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,417
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJSHOTROD
How are you guys coming up with this weight and aerodynamics of a 3rd gen being worse than a 2nd gen. I do not know what 3rd gens weigh but my 2nd gen weighs 7300 pounds and I do not think Dodge would spend 100's of thousand of dollars on wind tunnel test to make a less aerodynamic truck.
|
I weighed mine on a Public Scale on the way to the track in racing configuration. No tool boxes in the bed and no spare tire. I then weighed it on the track scales with me in it.
Public Scale = 7160lbs (without me)
Track Scale = 7335lbs (with me)
The 3rd gen QCs seem to weigh 250-300lbs more than 2nd gens according to the Dodge weight specs.
The 3rd gens have a higher profile(taller) than second gens, that will effect aerodanmics to some degree. Just my .02.
__________________
2004.5 2500 QC SLT 4x4 CTD Auto
Studs, Springs, Flux 2s, Silver Bullet, II Bag of Parts, AFE Stage II, 6" Stack, Billet TC/Trans by HotRodDiesels, TST R49, MP-8, Smarty TNT/R.
12.43s @ 108.48
|
|
|
01-31-2007, 09:44 AM
|
#15
|
Name: paulb
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Klamath Falls, OR
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,673
|
My ... The stock tires on a 3rd gen are slightly shorter then the ones on a 2nd gen. 3rd gens come with 3.73 (?), 2nd gens with 3.54. We will leave the 4.10's out of it... Because of the lower gears, the 3rd gens have a tendency to spin more out of the hole, and hit both the mph and rpm limit earlier.
Paul
__________________
02 4x4 Auto Mach 6+'s, Drag Comp,Source Automotive Twins, Ultimate Transmission
05 2500 4x4 Auto 3.73 BBI 4's, Smarty Touch, Source Automotive Twins, F1 springs and Cam, Opie's bypass system, Mitusa, PPE Dual Fueler, Ultimate Transmission, Opie shafts,Isspro gauges
|
|
|
01-31-2007, 09:01 PM
|
#16
|
Name: John_P
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 530
|
Chris:
As you may already know, my son John Jr. (banshee) has run a best of 12.6 @ 110 MPH with 677 RWHP in his 2004 Dodge CTD CR, QC, SB, 4X4 but with a 6-speed transmission. As I recall, his truck weighs 7110 lbs.
Hope that helps you some.
--------
John_P
__________________
1996 Dodge CTD, Ext. Cab, LB, 4X4. Auto, Scheid Diesel built engine with: Scheid Arias Pistons, Scheid Cam, Scheid Twin Turbos, 14mm studs/firerings, FASS, Fluidamper, ATS Stage V Full Billet Tranny
My sincere thanks to Scheid Diesel and ATS Diesel Performance.
|
|
|
02-02-2007, 10:05 AM
|
#17
|
Name: c-hawk
Title: Liberals Suck...
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 670
|
John,
Thanks for the info.
That's nuts...
He's not losing very much et with that manual like most guys seem to. I think if i had 600hp with my 5600 i'd still probably run an 18.00. You have any video, i'd love to see him banging through the gears, that's some impressive shifting.
Chris
__________________
2001 Dodge 2500 4x4 - SBC OFE, Mach 1.2, Smarty...
www.TNT-Power.com
|
|
|
02-02-2007, 02:12 PM
|
#18
|
Name: John_P
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 530
|
Chris:
Yeah, your right, Johnner is an "anomaly" when it comes to shifting that NV5600 6-speed WITH a Haisley Dual Disc Street/Drag Clutch too!!
And yes, there is some video of him shifting the truck that Keegan Mabe (UnrulyNFS) took last year. I will try to get you a link to it. Last spring I ran him "heads-up" in my old 2002 Dodge CTD 24 valve truck with a TST PM 3 (Comp) "stacked" with an Edge EZ, 125 H.P. Injectors, a Piers HX-40/16 Turbo and a full billet ATS Tranny and I LOST!! It wasn't by much, maybe a truck length or so, but I LOST! That made a believer out of me that he can shift that big heavy 6-speed!
--------
John_P
__________________
1996 Dodge CTD, Ext. Cab, LB, 4X4. Auto, Scheid Diesel built engine with: Scheid Arias Pistons, Scheid Cam, Scheid Twin Turbos, 14mm studs/firerings, FASS, Fluidamper, ATS Stage V Full Billet Tranny
My sincere thanks to Scheid Diesel and ATS Diesel Performance.
|
|
|
02-02-2007, 06:41 PM
|
#19
|
Name: Burner
Title: slow poke
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,393
|
Do you think it has anything to do with DC or Cummins electronics?
Could it be in relation to the stroke?
__________________
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -- Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
02-05-2007, 08:43 AM
|
#20
|
Name: DIESEL_POWER
Title: NGM Diesel
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2006
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,178
|
there are a good bit of hold backs on the CR's but if tuned right they will fly down the track, as for dyno #'s they are all over exagerated, it is very easy to spike a common rail on the dyno or fool the hp#'s via the dyno opperator or software setup. the list goes on. but you will see several sub 11's and even 10's out of the CR this year.
__________________
Proverbs 3:5-6 (KJV)
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 PM.
|