Bosch Motorsport nozzles bashing thread

homewrecker

homewrecker

gear jammer
Exergy vs industrial - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

Any of the technical guru's over here care to add their insight on this monster debate going on at cf? It gets really good from about page 20 on. I called to speak with Exergy the other day and it seems they have have gotten flooded with calls about this subject. Harvey didnt even want to discuss his opinion on it. Guess he's taking a beating from a few people. I just installed a set of 100% over BMS nozzles in an 05 for a guy and now he's second guessing his decission. Smokem chimed in over there and said they work fine on the late cr pistons then exited the discussion saying he wouldnt run them on the late cr pistons:nail: Im more confused than ever.:lolly:
 
The new CAM or Oil threads......


I posted a good response to this but deleted it. What's the point.
 
Well I suffered a bit through that thread but couldn't make it.

Did everyone forget the plethora of the factory 124 degree nozzle meltdowns??? Or the photo's of the exact same burn through (with 124 degree nozzles)
No other piston combo melts as easily....:hehe:

That piston looks more like a one-off to me. As in one hole was off. It happens.
 
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06 DIESEL said:
You can just keep that discussion over there as far as I am concerned.
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I'm not looking for the useless bickering back and forth or speculations that's going on over there. I'm open to opinions from experience or technical data. The first problem with the linked thread is the damage to the piston was not from a bms nozzle but it created the frenzy due to the 143° spray angle on the late model pistons. The set I installed run smoothly and the engine is noticeably quieter. It does have moderate haze when cold and there is a slight rattle in low boost conditions. Very little time was spent with tuning on the ssr because the truck is getting twins in the next few weeks. I think there's more to the discussion than spray angle. It was brought up that the late model pistons could run a few different spray angles and the 124° was strictly used for emissions reasons. Figure someone on here understands the non reintrant bowl design and might could shed some light on how a wider spray angle reacts.
Tapamaxxing
 
We all know that the piston with a hole melted in it was a new piston therefor prior abuse is non relevant. We also know that BMS nozzles have 7 holes, not 8 like the spray pattern so obviously shows. :doh:

This should not even be an argument or a valid discussion.

You've got to pay to play. Slapping a set of injectors in any engine without tuning to back it up is a very bad idea. Not understanding injector sizing and spray angle effects on timing and rail pressure also has very negative effects.
 
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The nozzle/piston combination was designed to prevent soot formation, and the issue with this design as to why it was phased out is something I will not discuss on the internet. Point is; the wider cone angle nozzles have been used successfully for quite some time, they will continue to be used successfully, and the argument is rather based on one point of view. My comment was that the 143° cone angle will work, but personally I would use something other than the 7-hole marine nozzle.
 
Smokem said:
The nozzle/piston combination was designed to prevent soot formation, and the issue with this design as to why it was phased out is something I will not discuss on the internet. Point is; the wider cone angle nozzles have been used successfully for quite some time, they will continue to be used successfully, and the argument is rather based on one point of view. My comment was that the 143° cone angle will work, but personally I would use something other than the 7-hole marine nozzle.
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So what is another choice? Is there something new on the way or something existing that few have access to? I respect and value your opinion. Thanks for chiming in.

Tapamaxxing
 
There is much more to it than meets the eye. Most and I mean most slap on a set of tips and call it a day. Yes, it changes the flow when you do it but there is just so much more going on to really make things work properly. I have yet to find anyone who can take a nozzle and open the holes up and keep them within the specifications Bosch does to start with. But that doesn't mean the Bosch current offerings are the end all be all either. They are willing to make you whatever you like but at a cost that most are not willing to pay.

The problems come from the EDM end of getting proper alignment to an already existing hole to open up or Extrude Honing removing material more from one hole than another. Then you need to get into the spray pattern of just ONE hole and how far into the cylinder it penetrates! There is just so much that really needs to be looked at that most of these discussions never cover. You either live with what someone tells you to use or get ready to go spend a lot to learn what is really happening and it has to be based on a lot more than injector tip angle and pistons to make the right decision.
 
Look at is this way, what if we were limited to only using the marine nozzles in the mechanical engines, would we see the same level of results? The simple answer is no, there are many nozzle choices in both mechanical and CR systems, the work needs to be put into finding better options as has been done on the mechanical side for quite some time. I have a few nozzles I will be testing early this year, they are not from a Cummins application.
 
The fear of god has put into those guys over there about using the wrong nozzle because of the OP's melt down. I think what most of them need to realize is that, they can melted their motors down with what ever nozzles they use. I'll say it again, 2yrs on my 143's with no issue.
 
triton said:
The fear of god has put into those guys over there about using the wrong nozzle because of the OP's melt down. I think what most of them need to realize is that, they can melted their motors down with what ever nozzles they use. I'll say it again, 2yrs on my 143's with no issue.
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The "Swoled" block / rod not withstanding of course... LOL



(i know it was unrelated)
 
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Ive got a LOT of customers running motorsports in all different sizes and in early 5.9, late 5.9 and 6.7 applications. Not one single piston failure. We have been running the same set of 200% overs in our race truck for two years with aboslutely no problems. We have tried a few different bowl designs of our own and the one that we have found to work best with this nozzle is very similar to the late 5.9 bowl. On the other hand, I have done several engine builds just this year on trucks with melted pistons in completely stock form. So I have to say, as i always have, melted pistons are usually a reslut of dirty fuel/lack of filtration or poor tuning. As for the two companies mentioned in the thread, both sell products that work if used correctly.
 
Wonder if that guy checks the cheeseburger before he sticks it in his mouth?

You don't know what you're looking at and put the wrong thing in, it's all on your ass at that point.
 
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