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07-06-2009, 07:14 PM
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#1
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
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Look at grapg give opinions...
Here is a graph of a run that I did on Thursday with and without my MP-8.
If you notice that after peak power the graph has a bad shimmy and that is felt tremendously in the truck.
If I go back to all my dyno runs since I started dynoing and put the smoothing on "0" all my graphs show the same shimmy, its just WAY more pronounced on these runs than the previous ones.
Anyone know what it is and why its occouring???
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07-06-2009, 07:26 PM
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#2
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Name: jlibert
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
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Posts: 3,454
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not necessarily related, but did you try the puck?
what's up with that pre-peak dip?
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07-06-2009, 08:47 PM
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#3
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlibert
not necessarily related, but did you try the puck?
what's up with that pre-peak dip?
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Yes, in the bottom notes it says which run had the MP-8 and which didn't.
As for the dip???? No idea!
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07-06-2009, 10:39 PM
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#4
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Name: metal_miner
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Elko, NV
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Posts: 179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007 5.9
As for the dip???? No idea!
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That dip eerily reminds me of whenever I dynoed a TST PMCR with not enough CP3 and went too high on the Te settings. It was usually at 2000 - 2100 rpm, which was about 70 mph on my truck in OD.
__________________
03 2500 4x4, HO, 6spd, ARP, PDR cam, HD springs, dual CP3, SBC 3600DD, GT3788R over GTX4202R, Flux 4, UDC, ISSPRO Performax, Thuren goodies.
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07-06-2009, 10:41 PM
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#5
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal_miner
That dip eerily reminds me of whenever I dynoed a TST PMCR with not enough CP3 and went too high on the Te settings. It was usually at 2000 - 2100 rpm, which was about 70 mph on my truck in OD.
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I am currently running II 85% pump with DDP 90's, so I hope I've got enough pump.
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07-06-2009, 10:51 PM
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#6
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Name: metal_miner
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Elko, NV
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007 5.9
I am currently running II 85% pump with DDP 90's, so I hope I've got enough pump.
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It did it on my truck with a Floor It Stage 2 CP3 and 90 HP injectors. This ticked me off so much f'ing around with modded CP3's that I went to duals. How does the Floor It Stage 2 CP3 compare to the II 85% CP3?
__________________
03 2500 4x4, HO, 6spd, ARP, PDR cam, HD springs, dual CP3, SBC 3600DD, GT3788R over GTX4202R, Flux 4, UDC, ISSPRO Performax, Thuren goodies.
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07-06-2009, 11:16 PM
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#7
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal_miner
It did it on my truck with a Floor It Stage 2 CP3 and 90 HP injectors. This ticked me off so much f'ing around with modded CP3's that I went to duals. How does the Floor It Stage 2 CP3 compare to the II 85% CP3?
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From my understanding that before Johns Stg4, the 85%, was the highest flowing pump avail. Of course that statement will ensue a riot of others saying otherwise, but for me the II pump flowed the most.
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07-06-2009, 11:33 PM
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#8
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Name: metal_miner
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Elko, NV
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007 5.9
From my understanding that before Johns Stg4, the 85%, was the highest flowing pump avail. Of course that statement will ensue a riot of others saying otherwise, but for me the II pump flowed the most.
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No doubt about the riot...
Do you have other graphs to look at in which you ran lower Smarty settings, but with the same parts on your truck, to see if the dip is there?
For me it was really pronounced with the TST alone or TST stacked with Smarty. Adding a pressure box made the dip worse and the dip also showed up really noticeably on the rail pressure gauge. On the gauge, the pressure sharply climbs then sharply drops with EGT climbing rapidly and then pressure starts to slowly climb back up. On the dyno it felt like the clutch or tires slipped and then re-connected - kind of like a surge. Smoke wise, it was clear, then pitch black at the dip, and then clear again.
__________________
03 2500 4x4, HO, 6spd, ARP, PDR cam, HD springs, dual CP3, SBC 3600DD, GT3788R over GTX4202R, Flux 4, UDC, ISSPRO Performax, Thuren goodies.
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07-07-2009, 12:59 AM
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#9
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Name: jlibert
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
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Posts: 3,454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007 5.9
Yes, in the bottom notes it says which run had the MP-8 and which didn't.
As for the dip???? No idea!
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extreme puck...... not mp8.
Did you try the puck?
IIRC, the ez looks like it may have worked better for you when you were at Brown's.
-jp
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07-07-2009, 01:04 AM
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#10
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Name: jlibert
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
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Posts: 3,454
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Just checked your dyno graph from browns. No dip at all.
Same SW?
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07-07-2009, 08:38 AM
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#11
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlibert
extreme puck...... not mp8.
Did you try the puck?
IIRC, the ez looks like it may have worked better for you when you were at Brown's.
-jp
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No Puck yet, but last night developed a SERIOUS RATTLE above 50% throttle, took the MP-8 off and still there, unloaded the Smarty this morning to see if it helps...but for now I am wondering if I might have a FCA going bad.
Rattle just started yesterday, getting on freeway was up around 40psi and 45-50% throttle layed into it a little more and it sounded like there were thousands of little men inside my motor with ball peen hammer going to town on my piston tops.
This was with sw#4 default timing rp-3 tq-2....
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07-07-2009, 12:45 PM
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#12
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Name: jaredb900rr
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Draper, UT
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Posts: 494
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Hey Les, I don't have any input on the graph, but I have had those little men in my motor before...they sound very angry! I left my house one day and anytime I tried to give it more than about 25 percent throttle, the hammering sound would appear. I could ease my way up to about 40mph, but that was it. Disconnected my RP gauge and the sound went away. I dont think it was necessary my gauge or gauge wiring, more like the little connector. You've swapped stuff around quite a bit, and since taking the MP8 off didn't help, maybe it's the stock rail pressure connector not making perfect contact. See if maybe something is bent a little, or maybe u could try a sensor off another truck.
__________________
2005 Ram 4WD QC LB
2005 Ram 2WD regular cab shortbed- 1000 hp triple turbo truck
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07-07-2009, 03:39 PM
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#13
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Name: jlibert
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2007 5.9
No Puck yet, but last night developed a SERIOUS RATTLE above 50% throttle, took the MP-8 off and still there, unloaded the Smarty this morning to see if it helps...but for now I am wondering if I might have a FCA going bad.
Rattle just started yesterday, getting on freeway was up around 40psi and 45-50% throttle layed into it a little more and it sounded like there were thousands of little men inside my motor with ball peen hammer going to town on my piston tops.
This was with sw#4 default timing rp-3 tq-2....
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Did you dump an additive in your tank?
A little too much of the cetane booster will do that.
-jp
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07-07-2009, 04:54 PM
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#14
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlibert
Did you dump an additive in your tank?
A little too much of the cetane booster will do that.
-jp
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Yep, running 1/2 bottle of PS and a B20 mix. Guess I dont need the extra cetane.
I am going to hook it up to a scanner this afternoon and drive it and watch parameters to see if it all checks out then chalk it up to being a dummy and adding too much cetane.
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07-07-2009, 04:56 PM
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#15
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredb900rr
Hey Les, I don't have any input on the graph, but I have had those little men in my motor before...they sound very angry! I left my house one day and anytime I tried to give it more than about 25 percent throttle, the hammering sound would appear. I could ease my way up to about 40mph, but that was it. Disconnected my RP gauge and the sound went away. I dont think it was necessary my gauge or gauge wiring, more like the little connector. You've swapped stuff around quite a bit, and since taking the MP8 off didn't help, maybe it's the stock rail pressure connector not making perfect contact. See if maybe something is bent a little, or maybe u could try a sensor off another truck.
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Thanks for the heads up Jarred, Ill check it with a scanner in a bit to check values and I have a extra RP sensor. But I think JP is on to something with the bottle of Power Service that I added to the B20 mix in my tank.
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07-08-2009, 08:44 AM
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#16
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredb900rr
Hey Les, I don't have any input on the graph, but I have had those little men in my motor before...they sound very angry! I left my house one day and anytime I tried to give it more than about 25 percent throttle, the hammering sound would appear. I could ease my way up to about 40mph, but that was it. Disconnected my RP gauge and the sound went away. I dont think it was necessary my gauge or gauge wiring, more like the little connector. You've swapped stuff around quite a bit, and since taking the MP8 off didn't help, maybe it's the stock rail pressure connector not making perfect contact. See if maybe something is bent a little, or maybe u could try a sensor off another truck.
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Jared, un hooked the RP gauge, and it seemed to quiet it down some. Took a friend for a ride and he could not hear it at all. Even when I said I could, he could not.... I wonder if I am just being too worrysome about all the noises that my truck makes.
Going to drive for a couple of days with no tunning in and burn through this tank of fuel and see if maybe I got a bad batch of fuel, or the fact that I dumped too much PS in might be causing detonation at high rpm's.
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07-08-2009, 10:21 AM
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#17
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Name: ENafziger
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
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Posts: 843
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I replied on another forum, but here's some more info.
Average cetane numbers:
Regular diesel--48
Premium diesel--55
Biodiesel (B100)--55
Biodiesel blend (B20)--50
Higher cetane decreases ignition delay, so running high cetane will have the similar effect of increasing timing. If you're detonating because of too much cetane/timing, knock the timing back a little and you'll be fine.
FWIW, you're leaving power on the table by dynoing with B20. If you're using the bio for its lubricity, shoot for 2 - 5% blend. That'll give you all the lubrication you need without sacrificing power.
--Eric
__________________
2006 Dodge 3500 SRW, 62/476 twins, Flux 2.5s, G56, Carli 2.65s, etc. Jer. 33:3
2003 Ford Excursion, '97 Cummins P-Pump, HX35/475 twins, studded and o-ringed, ZF6/271, forged Rickson 19.5s.
1991.5 W250, NV4500, Rickson 19.5s, HE351, long travel suspension build
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07-08-2009, 10:38 AM
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#18
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Name: 2007 5.9
Title: West Coast Dyno Modifier
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NorCal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENafziger
I replied on another forum, but here's some more info.
Average cetane numbers:
Regular diesel--48
Premium diesel--55
Biodiesel (B100)--55
Biodiesel blend (B20)--50
Higher cetane decreases ignition delay, so running high cetane will have the similar effect of increasing timing. If you're detonating because of too much cetane/timing, knock the timing back a little and you'll be fine.
FWIW, you're leaving power on the table by dynoing with B20. If you're using the bio for its lubricity, shoot for 2 - 5% blend. That'll give you all the lubrication you need without sacrificing power.
--Eric
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Thanks, I did read your other post. I am leaning in the direction of too much cetane as the source of my rattle. With your numbers above combined with the 6 point increase that Power Service claims on their bottle, I am running in the 55+ point zone (B20=50 + 6 from PS=56 points) that I am in the upper zone of cetane limits.
It also makes sense that while running Smarty on stock timing, the increased fueling increases cylinder pressure enough to cause this detonation, and that when I reloaded my stock tune thaw rattle all but went away.
I guess I'll just run this tank out before I reload a tune, don't need a melted hole!!!
Thanks for your help and advise!
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