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01-16-2018, 10:33 AM
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#1
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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Oil Cooler Failure?
My buddy's truck started knocking really bad on the way home from a sled trip, luckily we were only ~50miles from home. Tons of white, unburnt fuel coming out of the exhaust.
We checked fluid and it looked normal (level, color, not milky), started it back up at idle and it sounded and felt awful. It was dumping fuel out the exhaust still.
2013, 130,000 miles, deleted, tuned, otherwise stock. Meticulously maintained.
He bought the extended warranty so he had it towed to the dealership. I thought it felt like an injector tip let go or maybe the needle got stuck in the full open position?
The dealership said it's an oil cooler, but I've never heard of one going, and I feel like we would have seen the oil all milky. That would also mean the knock would have been from a rob bearing which would need that oil milky for a little while. They said it needs a while rebuild and quoted it at $30k if FCA doesn't warranty it (because of it being deleted)...
Anyways, looking for thoughts on it. Is the oil cooler a common failure for 6.7's? Are the injector tips? or maybe a cracked piston?
And we might be looking for a used 6.7L longblock if anyone has one lying around.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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01-16-2018, 11:17 AM
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#2
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Name: jimbo486
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,617
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I have a hard time buying that it's the oil cooler. But, if they wanna take a stab at it and the warranty covers it, let 'em.
__________________
1990 Dodge D350
Giles' 12mm VE - Airdog II 165 - 370s @ 75lpm - BW S362fmw/68/12 - Hamilton 182/214 - '01 NV5600
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01-16-2018, 11:24 AM
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#3
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Name: Signature600
Title: THA MAN!
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Jeffersonville, Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 11,961
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$30K....
Not an oil cooler failure, that would put oil in the radiator. That's a fuel problem
Chris
__________________
THANKS TO:
Tim Barber @ TRE Diesel
Jeff Mumau @ Mumau Diesel Service
Rip @ Source Automotive
Don Thuren @ ThurenFab Suspension
Columbus Diesel Supply
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01-16-2018, 11:25 AM
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#4
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Name: Mark Nixon
Title: No Savior among the flesh
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brownville, Nebraska
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8,676
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Sounds like the dealership is lost in space, as usual.
Don't count on them doing the install, because it's deleted, in fact they may try to hang him with all new DPF components to do the job.
It sounds likely that it locked a pintle, or blew the tip off an injector and burned the cylinder/piston to me.
If he has to pay, demand the core back, it'll tell the whole story.
I have several 13+ longblocks, that I could be convinced to sell, that need externals from light fire damage.
Which he will have.
Mark.
__________________
If you or I did business like the PEOPLE in government do business, we'd be put in jail. Government is coercive.
Anarchy: The state of existence where there are no masters & no slaves. Therefore, Anarchy means the ABSENCE OF SLAVERY, or, in other words, FREEDOM.
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01-16-2018, 02:15 PM
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#5
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo486
I have a hard time buying that it's the oil cooler. But, if they wanna take a stab at it and the warranty covers it, let 'em.
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Yeah, me too. And they called him and said it isn't going to be covered because it's deleted. To me, if they're claiming it's the oil cooler, that shouldn't really see any extra damage from a tune/delete!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Signature600
$30K....
Not an oil cooler failure, that would put oil in the radiator. That's a fuel problem
Chris
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100% agree. I don't think they know what they're doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Nixon
Sounds like the dealership is lost in space, as usual.
Don't count on them doing the install, because it's deleted, in fact they may try to hang him with all new DPF components to do the job.
It sounds likely that it locked a pintle, or blew the tip off an injector and burned the cylinder/piston to me.
If he has to pay, demand the core back, it'll tell the whole story.
I have several 13+ longblocks, that I could be convinced to sell, that need externals from light fire damage.
Which he will have.
Mark.
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Yeah, way out in space land.
I agree. I don't know enough about CR injectors, but it sure sounds like a tip blew off and probably ate everything in its path.
I'll be helping him tear the head off and we'll find the whole story. I'll post pictures assuming I remember to take them.
Mark, PM me a price and the next time you think you'll be somewhat close so we could meet and pick it up.
Be forewarned he's in denial right now and thinks he's going to be able to get by with replacing one injector... ha ha
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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01-16-2018, 03:40 PM
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#6
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Name: Mark Nixon
Title: No Savior among the flesh
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brownville, Nebraska
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8,676
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It's not out of the realm of possibility that it simply dropped a valve, killing the injector in the process.
I've had a couple 13+ in here that did just that, no rhyme or reason.
If it just locked the pintle open, you might get very lucky and it didn't do any damage, but 50 miles is like an eternity on a wounded engine.
Mark.
__________________
If you or I did business like the PEOPLE in government do business, we'd be put in jail. Government is coercive.
Anarchy: The state of existence where there are no masters & no slaves. Therefore, Anarchy means the ABSENCE OF SLAVERY, or, in other words, FREEDOM.
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01-16-2018, 03:52 PM
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#7
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 18,832
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I'm laughing.
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01-16-2018, 04:19 PM
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#8
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Name: f6jbob
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: western Wi.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,153
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When the head comes off take notice of piston protrusion on all cylinders. Very possible to shorten a rod.
__________________
2006 RCSB Dodge Goerend tranny and converter, Stainless Diesel twins and exhaust manifold, B&B intake manifold, T&C Diesel CP3, rail and dual prv, Hellman intercooler, Porting by Joker Fabrication, Isspro Performax gauges, AirDog fuel pump. Supported by Pure Diesel Power, Garmons Diesel Performance, Blacks Diesel Performance and above vendors.
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01-16-2018, 06:49 PM
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#9
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Nixon
It's not out of the realm of possibility that it simply dropped a valve, killing the injector in the process.
I've had a couple 13+ in here that did just that, no rhyme or reason.
If it just locked the pintle open, you might get very lucky and it didn't do any damage, but 50 miles is like an eternity on a wounded engine.
Mark.
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Yeah, we had that happen on an 03 before. Cut the piston up like a hot knife to butter, beat the head up a bit, and after we got the block clean, realized it had a nice crack down it that the naked eye couldn't see...
What's the cause for that typically? Excessive heat? Bad part?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snedge
I'm laughing.
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Read the update and I think you'll laugh harder ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by f6jbob
When the head comes off take notice of piston protrusion on all cylinders. Very possible to shorten a rod.
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I definitely wouldn't have thought of that. Good call!
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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01-16-2018, 06:57 PM
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#10
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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So my buddy picked up the truck after work. Turns out the dealer decided to "try and start the truck up after it'd been sitting for a while."
Here's what they claimed:
- They had the injectors out and tested them and that wasn't the case (but the valve cover bolts are still dirty like no wrench has ever touched them).
- The engine was junk when it rolled in, so putting a hole in the block doesn't really matter.
My thoughts are, it was an injector, it filled a cylinder with fuel, they tried cranking on it, bent and then broke a rod, and then sent it through the wall.
Oh, and that oil sure doesn't look milky to me! When my buddy questioned that, the 'diesel tech' told him, "Diesel oil is different, it mixes well with coolant."
If nothing else, I feel like he's got some good ammo to talk to FCA about it and maybe they'll take care of him.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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01-16-2018, 07:04 PM
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#11
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status:
Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,396
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Deleted truck, dream on. Ain't happening
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01-16-2018, 07:05 PM
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#12
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Name: thatguy69
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mansfield Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,023
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Yeah he's gonna get hosed. And that "diesel tech" sounds like he's really got it going on.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
__________________
1999 Compound 24v Rust Rocket
2008 F350 P24v/Allison
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01-16-2018, 07:43 PM
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#13
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Name: BRE
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southwest MO
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 12,705
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Oh he’s completely phucked now... should have never even walked into the dealer with it. If he wanted their warranty, he shouldn’t have deleted it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
__________________
Rick
07 Dodge 3500 - Tow mirrors, silencer ring MIA, Spectra air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
There really is nothing better than OEM. That goes for anything from turbos to boobs.
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RIP Dex KCCO
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01-16-2018, 08:07 PM
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#14
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Name: biggy238
Title: Too Much Time
Status:
Here
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Just North of Wrong
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 10,822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Nixon
It's not out of the realm of possibility that it simply dropped a valve, killing the injector in the process.
I've had a couple 13+ in here that did just that, no rhyme or reason.
If it just locked the pintle open, you might get very lucky and it didn't do any damage, but 50 miles is like an eternity on a wounded engine.
Mark.
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Are the valves friction welded? I assume they are.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out @bdmaximusworx
05.5 Campanella White TDi Jetta 5spd 45.5MPG
-Little Sexy
'10 Silver F250 CCLB 4X4 6.4L cummins Swapped
Insta @trash.panda250
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01-16-2018, 08:31 PM
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#15
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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I will say, he's got a way with words or something. He previously got his truck warrantied while it was deleted. They asked him about the delete and he told them it left him stranded on a trip so he had it removed and they still replaced his CP3. That was only ~20,000 miles ago or so. Dealer told him 'no', so he wrote to FCA. I'll let you guys know what happens.
Mark, you can still send me a PM on a longblock.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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01-16-2018, 09:05 PM
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#16
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Name: smokinVE
Title: $$+VE=NO HP
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Desart
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,731
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At a minimum he can get what he paid for his extended warranty back from said company.
I would NOT take the truck off the dealerships property until they come up with a solution to what they've done, don't sign any papers wait for a decision from the general manager/service manager and the FCA.
Read laws in your state about extended warranty. Here we have a "previous condition" clause. If it was deleted when he bought the extended warranty they would have to honor it. (Probably varies by state?). Only thing they could hang him on is if there is a box that was checked that said something like "no modifications" or something of that nature. AND that would only apply if he filled out the paper work, if a dealer did then it's on them.
They attempted to mess with an engine that was already "declined" by extended warranty and I assume your buddy approved no further diagnosis. They shouldn't have been trying to mess with it.....
__________________
93D350, VE powered, slow but reliable:-))
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
I don't think they let hair sniffer twit much. Or the little gay guy. Only the Indian does.
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01-16-2018, 09:15 PM
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#17
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Name: Mark Nixon
Title: No Savior among the flesh
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brownville, Nebraska
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8,676
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Regardless whether he deleted it or not, I'm under the impression that it didn't have a hole in the block when it arrived at the dealer and now it does.
It's also not a stretch to say or think that the damage that was done, while in their possession, was intentional.
I'm still not convinced that's an oil cooler problem, CorneliusRox.
Mark.
__________________
If you or I did business like the PEOPLE in government do business, we'd be put in jail. Government is coercive.
Anarchy: The state of existence where there are no masters & no slaves. Therefore, Anarchy means the ABSENCE OF SLAVERY, or, in other words, FREEDOM.
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01-17-2018, 07:57 AM
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#18
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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I was busy last night with my own stuff, so I'll have to talk with him this morning and see what he did. I'm with you guys, I wouldn't touch it, and I'd get some sort of investigator out there.
If nothing else, I feel like they owe him a working short block. But that's assuming everything else was messed up and we don't know that for sure yet.
I can't wait to get the head off of this thing. I am sure I'll be able to tell if a valve or injector tip had been bouncing around for a long time, or if it was just a hydro-lock issue.
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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01-17-2018, 08:52 AM
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#19
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Name: WUnderwood
Title: CompD Minion
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Texas
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8,418
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What is FCA?
__________________
2011 Ford F-150 Lariat 4X4
RIP BFD99, jponder, and Forrest Nearing
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01-17-2018, 09:24 AM
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#20
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Name: CorneliusRox
Title: Seasoned Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WUnderwood
What is FCA?
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Fiat Chrysler Automobiles
__________________
Corey - BSME '21 Tesla Model 3 Perf
'22 DMax AT4 2500
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