and yet another injector question.....

[Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by sootman

i hope you marked the sticks when you took them out. no amount of expert advice on this site will keep your feed tubes from leaking when you go back together. I have 3 trucks right now with world famous F1 sticks and all are leaking. if your sticks are good, then have those sticks modified. at least you know what those have been through.

What? Leaking? Where?

Connector tubes wont leak if you install everything correctly, or if the tubes/injector holder is not nicked, or out of shape.

[Snedge]

If You go by the book. Cummins requires us to replace HP fuel connectors whenever an injector is replaced. (Thats replaced not removed and reinstalled)
However we have seen no problems with leakage when useing F1 injectors or any others, and thats not going by the book.
We have also went the extrude hone route and that works too. But we have cracked honed tips with add on fueling boxes.

[sootman]

Obviously they will. if you do it right and go by the CUMMINS manual. you have to change those 50.00 feedtubes. I learned that from MARK DEEN. If you don't know that name you don't know about CUMMINS. My customers say they bought their injectors from DON M. whether or not it is an install problem is yet to be seen. Keep the panties out of the ass crack and I'll let you know what I find. I will be checking them at work. I am NOT one of the resident EXPERTS on here, so believe nothing that I type and only have of what I do.

[triton]

Originally Posted by sootman

Obviously they will. if you do it right and go by the CUMMINS manual. you have to change those 50.00 feedtubes. I learned that from MARK DEEN. If you don't know that name you don't know about CUMMINS. My customers say they bought their injectors from DON M. whether or not it is an install problem is yet to be seen. Keep the panties out of the ass crack and I'll let you know what I find. I will be checking them at work. I am NOT one of the resident EXPERTS on here, so believe nothing that I type and only have of what I do.

Sootman... what's the propose of EDMing the tubes when you have to buy new ones ? Are new tubes in that bad of shape that it's worth the expense of the process ?

I wonder how many trucks there are out there with leaking tubes? Not one of the injector dealers say that they should be changed although I agree that according to Cummins, they should be. I've heard that from a couple Cummins dealers and mechanics.

It does make sense that once that tube is wrenched down it forms to the hole in the injector... if it's not put back in the exact same way, you have a problem.

[sootman]

you don't have to r&r the tubes if they are put back in the same body. Cummins just requires r&r of tubes on injector replacement. If you mark everything and put it back right you shouldn't have a problem. Guys usually only buy nozzles and r&r them. if the dealers told the consumer to make sure they followed proper procedures than we would never have any problems.

[triton]

Originally Posted by sootman

you don't have to r&r the tubes if they are put back in the same body. Cummins just requires r&r of tubes on injector replacement. If you mark everything and put it back right you shouldn't have a problem.

The guy I talked to at Cummins south said they replace the tubes as a part of the warranty. If a injector is replaced... the tube goes with it. He said it was a Cummins requirement to avoid further warranty issues. That's a warranty thing though so, maybe it's not that imperative to change them like you say.

Something else that I've never seen mentioned by injector dealers is the brass or copper shim ring. According to the manual, those also HAVE to be replaced. If the washer isn't the right thickness, that could be another reason some tubes you see are leaking. The tube may not be lining up vertically the way it should.

[Billyram]

Originally Posted by triton

what do you guys know about Extruded Hone ? Or maybe, it's a little knows secret ?

I can't see paying $1200 or $1500 for some injectors so I got to looking around.
For $43.00 each, I'll have honed tips good for 120hp. Their reputation is quite good and well known in the racing world.

I talked in length to someone there and it seems all the 1K plus injector are that because of the mark up these shops are putting on them.

Anyway... if they don't work out well, I'm only out a couple hundred as opposed to over $1000

If this post steps on the dealers toes because of injector pricing... plz feel free to delete it.

I believe most exchanged injectors are reconditioned and tested with new or modifyed tips with some kind of warranty = $1000-$1200. If you have a good working set you may be able to change the tips ok. I wouldn't want to put a set of injector tips on my injectors and stick them back in my truck untested. You're talking about a 3-4 hr job just swapping injectors in a cr. I think most people reuse the connector tubes at least one time. If they havn't been over torqued and the tip isn't distorted they shouldn't leak.
Most reconditioned injectors come with new copper washers and O-rings. I wouldn't reuse the old ones.

[sootman]

Originally Posted by triton

The guy I talked to at Cummins south said they replace the tubes as a part of the warranty. If a injector is replaced... the tube goes with it. He said it was a Cummins requirement to avoid further warranty issues. That's a warranty thing though so, maybe it's not that imperative to change them like you say.

Something else that I've never seen mentioned by injector dealers is the brass or copper shim ring. According to the manual, those also HAVE to be replaced. If the washer isn't the right thickness, that could be another reason some tubes you see are leaking. The tube may not be lining up vertically the way it should.

Again, that is a cummins thing. I never said you HAD to change the feedtubes. if you mix'em up I would. My injectors are like Billyram says I replace everything including the shim rings. AT work I am forced to change feedtubes no matter what. Since you are looking at a lot of LOOT to get your truck on the road I would get yourself some nozzles.

[triton]

Well I hoped to do just that. I hope Don M reads this. I've called three out of the four vendors listed as Don's distributors and CAN NOT get anyone to work with me.

I've called and emailed Bob Wagner several times with no response. I've talked to Olee Poole about them and have never heard back. I talked to Rip who did give me some info but, I called back and left two messages with his person that answers the phone and have yet to hear back.

Geeezz ! I understand people are busy but, it takes 2 minutes to call someone back to tell them that. I suppose my money is no good with these people. I also understand that Don is pretty busy ( from what i read ) so maybe they don't need another sale ??

[Billyram]

I don't believe you're going to get Don M to sell you just the tips. I think you'll have to send your injectors to him. I have heard most folks are back logged on cr injectors. There are some other people building good injectors too.

[triton]

Yeah, that i do know and would happily send them out to be done but, I can't do that if none of his dealers are willing to sell the service.

I got nothing but, attitude from DDP at ORP and on the phone so, they're out.

Guess I'll keep lookin'

[Billyram]

Originally Posted by triton

Yeah, that i do know and would happily send them out to be done but, I can't do that if none of his dealers are willing to sell the service.

I got nothing but, attitude from DDP at ORP and on the phone so, they're out.

Guess I'll keep lookin'

Give some of the vendors on this site a try. I think some one can help you out.

[OT-OF-Here]

I don't get why the Injector dealer community do NOT know of the Cummins procedures. Obviously they have a need to know and share this info with their customers that are spending the big $$$ to have the best,... which becomes compromised if a problem develops because all the bases have not been touched.

I may well have this problem as we speak as I have an unexplained power loss and fuel bleeding back into my tank instead of through my injectors may well be my problem and NO I didn't replace my feed tubes when I last upgraded my sticks.

I have, like many of you, tested this info of this thread and called Cummins and they verified everything Sootman has said here.

Color me bumbed!!!

[Billyram]

Originally Posted by OT-OF-Here

I don't get why the Injector dealer community do NOT know of the Cummins procedures. Obviously they have a need to know and share this info with their customers that are spending the big $$$ to have the best,... which becomes compromised if a problem develops because all the bases have not been touched.

I may well have this problem as we speak as I have an unexplained power loss and fuel bleeding back into my tank instead of through my injectors may well be my problem and NO I didn't replace my feed tubes when I last upgraded my sticks.

I have, like many of you, tested this info of this thread and called Cummins and they verified everything Sootman has said here.

Color me bumbed!!!

You may need to check your fuel rail relieve valve.

[sootman]

Originally Posted by Billyram

You may need to check your fuel rail relieve valve.

that won't send it back to the tank, besides his is plugged.

[DIESEL_POWER]

Originally Posted by Billyram

I believe most exchanged injectors are reconditioned and tested with new or modifyed tips with some kind of warranty = $1000-$1200. If you have a good working set you may be able to change the tips ok. I wouldn't want to put a set of injector tips on my injectors and stick them back in my truck untested. You're talking about a 3-4 hr job just swapping injectors in a cr. I think most people reuse the connector tubes at least one time. If they havn't been over torqued and the tip isn't distorted they shouldn't leak.
Most reconditioned injectors come with new copper washers and O-rings. I wouldn't reuse the old ones.

exactly, good point billy.

[DIESEL_POWER]

Originally Posted by triton

Well I hoped to do just that. I hope Don M reads this. I've called three out of the four vendors listed as Don's distributors and CAN NOT get anyone to work with me.

I've called and emailed Bob Wagner several times with no response. I've talked to Olee Poole about them and have never heard back. I talked to Rip who did give me some info but, I called back and left two messages with his person that answers the phone and have yet to hear back.

Geeezz ! I understand people are busy but, it takes 2 minutes to call someone back to tell them that. I suppose my money is no good with these people. I also understand that Don is pretty busy ( from what i read ) so maybe they don't need another sale ??

wow, that sounds like my first time trying to get injectors from F1, way before i dealt with II. since then i have found the right company, www.industrialinjection.com they are the best i have used.

[Billyram]

I here good things about F-1 injectors and considered them but went with II Dragonflow 90 hp instead. Couldn't have made a better decision. Thanks Wade. The truck idles smoother smokes less and just runs better than the stock injectors. They do make 90 hp too. Ran a 12.60 with the smarty at 90 hp and va3.1 100% = 60hp with the tst turned off.

[Howling]

Triton,

Have you tried http://www.trediesel.com/ for F1 injectors.

[DIESEL_POWER]

Originally Posted by Billyram

I here good things about F-1 injectors and considered them but went with II Dragonflow 90 hp instead. Couldn't have made a better decision. Thanks Wade. The truck idles smoother smokes less and just runs better than the stock injectors. They do make 90 hp too. Ran a 12.60 with the smarty at 90 hp and va3.1 100% = 60hp with the tst turned off.

your welcome billy.

turn that thing up and hit 11's..........