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Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
05-13-2017, 09:15 AM
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#1
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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Compound Tuning
Truck in my sig. I've read the whole Tuning Twins thread in the drag race section as well as any other threads on topic that I could find. I'm having a hang up here in my thought process when it comes to driving the secondary harder to balance out PRs yet on the contrary wastegating the secondary more to lower overall drive pressure.
This is what I'm currently seeing at full tilt.
80psi at the intake manifold.
45psi between turbos.
90-95psi of drive pressure at the exhaust manifold.
And if I am trying hard, 3rd or 4th up a steep hill with the pedal mashed or a full WOT 1/4 mile pull; I can peg my 1600* pyro.
I drilled the wastegate out to about 15/16 if I recall correctly (it was is big as I could go with leaving about 1/16" contact surface around the puck. I am running a custom undivided log manifold with the dump between #2 and #3. I recently tightened up my gate (before collecting the above data) because she was smoky and like a dog until 20psi of Boost. My springgate is now set to start opening around 30psi (the only way I have been able to guesstimate this is by listening for "wastegate flutter).
So to me it seems like I should try to get my drive pressures lower? I could go external gate around the WH1C but I will probably try relieving the downpipe flange a little first to make more clearance for the wastegate to swing open.
The problem is that it also seems like I should be driving my secondary harder? My calculations show what I believe is a HIGH 4.61 PR from the primary and a measly 1.6 PR from the secondary. With the high drive pressures I'm seeing, I would expect that secondary to be using up more of the exhaust energy, not leaving much for the primary.
Thoughts?
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 09:23 AM
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#2
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
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Posts: 780
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Yea. I did the formulas. It's
How I calculated the 1.6 and 4.6 PRs.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 01:23 PM
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#3
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Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
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Posts: 665
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Ok clear some things up for us
Primary boost
Overall boost
Secondary boost
P/R from both turbos
And what kind of gauges are you running? I have a hard time believing 80+ psi from a wh1c and a box s475.
But. The primary will choke more going into the wh1c than say an s3. Which is why the primary could be showing such high numbers.
How much fuel are you feeding this thing?
I see around 70psi from an s475 with a 1.15 housing under a 62/71/13.
25psi primary
15.9psi secondary
P/R's right around 2.9 and 2.0 Big then little. 5.62 overall
1100* at WOT
5x14 injectors
But to answer your question. The tighter the spring gate. The harder the little turbo works and the less unmolested hot exhaust the primary gets.
Last edited by turbo2387; 05-13-2017 at 01:34 PM.
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05-13-2017, 01:34 PM
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#4
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Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
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Posts: 665
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And a wastegate set at 30psi is Actually opening closer to 14-16psi on a set of primarys.
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05-13-2017, 01:35 PM
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#5
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Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
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Posts: 665
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I agree. He has some mismatched parts and a ton of tuning to do.
Im lazy. I dont wanna read through a whole post for the numbers. Lol
If you are running the 5x18's without a plate. This is a the reason for high egts. You wont be able to clean those up well with this set of compounds. You have fuel for 800+hp but air for 650 or so.
Last edited by turbo2387; 05-13-2017 at 01:40 PM.
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05-13-2017, 05:23 PM
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#6
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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Primary Boost - 45psi
Overall Boost - 80psi
Secondary Boost? You want the overall boost number again? Lol 80psi
Primary PR 4.6
Secondary PR 1.6
Auto meter Phantom gauges. Checked with another gauge and it matched. I'm also running an Air/water intercooler with super short charge piping, so pressure drop is less.
I machined the WH1C for a 60mm HE351 wheel.
Fuel. 5x18 Scheids with lightning nozzles. Looks like some pintle and lift mods done. Mack plug. Racked barrels. No plate. AFC all the way forward and modded for max rack travel.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 05:24 PM
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#7
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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For the guys complaining about my long initial post. I guess I apologize. I have always learned to provide as much detail as possible to receive the most helpful answers.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 05:26 PM
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#8
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo2332
And a wastegate set at 30psi is Actually opening closer to 14-16psi on a set of primarys.
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I'm honestly not 100% sure exactly when the gate is cracking and fully opened. How do you guys gauge that in a compound setup and with a spring gate? I'm guesstimating around 30psi overall Boost because that's when I hear what only makes sense as wastegate flutter if I hover around there.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 05:47 PM
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#9
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo2332
But to answer your question. The tighter the spring gate. The harder the little turbo works and the less unmolested hot exhaust the primary gets.
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I understand that. But then if I tighten up my spring gate more, my drive pressures will increase. And they are already pretty high right?
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 06:18 PM
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#10
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Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
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Posts: 665
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You test and tune. I also run a spring gate and test in half turn intervals.
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05-13-2017, 06:18 PM
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#11
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Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
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Posts: 665
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Data log the manual way. Its time consuming but you can see how little changes changes the whole picture.
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05-13-2017, 06:21 PM
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#12
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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I see that you dont have drive pressure in your log, is that not a big concern of yours?
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 06:29 PM
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#13
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Name: turbo2387
Title: Nipple Fluffer
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 665
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No. drive for me is of little concern. You have a much smaller secondary. So you need to have an eye on it much closer.
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05-13-2017, 06:32 PM
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#14
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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I think my next step before doing more tuning will be putting the sump in my fuel cell and running 1/2" line all the way to the lift pump. The mechanical lift pump keeps up feeding the 160 injection pump at 55psi until about 2800rpm then I can suck it down to 15psi. I'm betting that I'm experiencing some cavitation and fuel delivery issues that are messing with my injection event too. I'll post a video when I get home, but it seems to run pretty clean down the track.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 06:34 PM
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#15
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo2332
No. drive for me is of little concern. You have a much smaller secondary. So you need to have an eye on it much closer.
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I know IDEAL is 1:1. Where do you think I should draw the line?
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 06:36 PM
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#16
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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For those questioning my Boost numbers with the WH1C, I don't know what to tell you. A lot of people in the past have also found it hard to believe that I hit 10psi at 1200rpm... it has really good spool up, I don't know exactly what to attribute that to except maybe the short charge piping.
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 07:04 PM
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#17
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Name: gmanss
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 5
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Honestly the PR ratio isn't ideal, but your drive to boost is well in line given your small secondary. I don't see any problem with those numbers.
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05-13-2017, 07:12 PM
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#18
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,412
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If you are only 10psi difference drive to boost at those psi numbers driving up a hill in 4th, with only 1300? Egt. That doesn't sound bad at all. What is wrong with it you don't like? Is it not strong enough? I bet that truck would be quick and run good with a stock type manifold and a modern 64mm single charger.
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05-13-2017, 07:23 PM
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#19
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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Where did you get 1300 egt? I can get yo 1600 if it REALLY try.
I love the truck. Besides it being super loud in the cab. lol I only pulled a 12.699 at 113mph. I weigh 5600 lbs. 18psi 4wd boosted launch and I even chirped a little off the line with posi in the rear. I think the track wasn't prepped good because I only cut a 1.76 60ft. I'm having a governor/shift timing issue with the 47rh where I start to defuel at 3600rpm, lose Boost, then a little while later it shifts. But I still feel like I should see 11s... no?
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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05-13-2017, 07:27 PM
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#20
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Name: Redrider2911
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Yakima, WA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 780
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It is a little smokey and with a bad haze (whole other thread dedicated to that issue) but I think that's just an injector/injection pump issue.
You really don't like my manifold do you Jason? Lol So you are thinkin swap the 60mm WH1C for a 64mm box turbo? What would that do to my idle to 2000rpm power?
__________________
49 Willys Pickup. 5600lb. 11.8sec @115mph 1/4. 12 valve. MegaSquirted 47RH. 3.54 posi rear. 35" tires. 64mm HE351ve, S475 (75/96/1.32), A/W Intercooler. AFC mods. 5x16s. 191 DVs, 180 pump. 23*. 85psi. Build Thread
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