turbo's!!

[lotero]

i love my SPS62/14, i dynoed 534 with the drag comp and am now making more power (SOP) with the quad box. it does get toasty but i can control that easily, well worth it in streetability in my opinion.

[silverbullet]

A good part of the time, small businesses will do better work than a large corporation, but not always. Until you got tolerances from each place and mic'd these turbo's, it would be hard to say. As a tool, die and injection molder maker, I'm familiar with just about all machines. Like duke said, " this isn't rocket science". What special equipment do they have that these other guys don't?

[zstroken]

I will say this from my high volume machining experience. Some machines are just not capable of maintaining tolerances. If II and HTT are just slapping them on a old CNC, hand gaging parts then it could be, or if BW has inline gages, CNC's with scales on them, or machines are programmed to compensate for backlash in the screws then this could be the case. I came from a huge machining plant, and have seen machines all across the board. Show me what II, HTT, and BW have as well as their gaging/quality system, I could make a determination.

[silverbullet]

Originally Posted by zstroken

I will say this from my high volume machining experience. Some machines are just not capable of maintaining tolerances. If II and HTT are just slapping them on a old CNC, hand gaging parts then it could be, or if BW has inline gages, CNC's with scales on them, or machines are programmed to compensate for backlash in the screws then this could be the case. I came from a huge machining plant, and have seen machines all across the board. Show me what II, HTT, and BW have as well as their gaging/quality system, I could make a determination.

Good points! Lot's of variables to consider. No offense smokem, but I don't believe you have got dimensions & tolerances from any of these guys, disassembled, and mic'd them. When you say quality of machine work... do you mean the finish, if so I can give you a glass like finish all day long, but that doesn't mean I'm within tolerance.

[duke1n]

Ok cool do believe that either one of those examples require maching tolerances that cannot be produced by machines owned by HTT or II or is that just an example of poor execution?

[duke1n]

LMAO I can write two algorithms that look entirely different. One can be eloquent and neat and the other can appear repetitive and sloppy. Both of them will produce Big O of log base2 N and perform identically. Beauty is more than skin deep

[coon smile]

hey how bout we keep algorithms and anything calculus related out of this discussion.

why would someone sit here and make up lies about machining tolerances on different turbos? unless u personally know smokem and what he does for a living or in his spare time, then just be willing to accept his opinion - everyone has em (you know the saying) - just like you are entitled to you own.

[zstroken]

I am not disputing who makes a better turbo. Things need to be taken into consideration. GM was famous for holding tolerances much tighter than toyota. The issue why toyota could make a better package was that their process had the ability to address the issues of the looser tolerance. Maybe the tolerances that BW use aren't needed. I mean I have ran the tar out of a prostreet 66 and a silver bullet and not had a failure yet. Unless the total process is known you can't really determine quality off of a few samples from each. Here is an example. One shop uses a manual CNC and gages every part that comes off by hand with a go/no go gage. This will probably insure that every part that goes out is within spec. Shop number two pulls 1 part out of 20 off of the line and runns it on a cms machine. Takes the readings and makes adjustments. What happened to the other 19? Do we assume that since 1 and 20 were in spec that 2-19 are also? I would prefer the 100% go no/go. Now if they are 100% inline gaging, then that would be different. Unless someone has several cases of where a super B special outperforms or has more durability over a SPS64 or a HTT QD64 we are just speculating that the specs really matter. I mean it is like looking at a polished compressor housing. It sure looks nice, but does it help the performance of the charger.

[coon smile]

the main concern i have is durability...is dave @ bd diesel saying the max boost for the special is 45psi to keep people from pushing the limits of the charger and the warranty?

or is the turbo designed for 45psi? b/c some other people are saying it can take a lot more than that

[BDPowerDave]

Originally Posted by coon smile

the main concern i have is durability...is dave @ bd diesel saying the max boost for the special is 45psi to keep people from pushing the limits of the charger and the warranty?

or is the turbo designed for 45psi? b/c some other people are saying it can take a lot more than that

Yes I am saying that 45PSI is max on the Special, that is its peak efficiency range and should have no need to go past that or its not the right charger for the customer! The only failures on the Specials that I have seen have all been related to over boost, where the wastegates were modified or pinched off. Doing this makes it impossible to know what kind of drive pressures and boost they were making when they failed. You would think guys would at least re-adjust the wastgate back to 45 PSI before sending them back for warranty???

What I am finding is that guys are either using the Special with the wastegate pinched off because they can't afford twins or because they do not want to move into a twin turbo class for sled pulling, that is not what the Special is designed for. It was intended for the diesel guy who wants a reliable performance turbo, does not tow a RV trailer and uses the truck for mild competition weekend fun. As much as I would like to come on here and rave about how great the Special works for Sled puilling with 600HP, it is not that turbo.

[coon smile]

Originally Posted by BDPowerDave

Yes I am saying that 45PSI is max on the Special, that is its peak efficiency range and should have no need to go past that or its not the right charger for the customer! The only failures on the Specials that I have seen have all been related to over boost, where the wastegates were modified or pinched off. Doing this makes it impossible to know what kind of drive pressures and boost they were making when they failed. You would think guys would at least re-adjust the wastgate back to 45 PSI before sending them back for warranty???

What I am finding is that guys are either using the Special with the wastegate pinched off because they can't afford twins or because they do not want to move into a twin turbo class for sled pulling, that is not what the Special is designed for. It was intended for the diesel guy who wants a reliable performance turbo, does not tow a RV trailer and uses the truck for mild competition weekend fun. As much as I would like to come on here and rave about how great the Special works for Sled puilling with 600HP, it is not that turbo.

thanks for clearing that up dave...

[Schoust]

Hey Dave is it your opinion still that the special is really not the turbo for an every day driver 12 valve engined truck? I talked with you a while back about this and I was wondering if you still felt this way? I really wanted to go that route but I wasn't sure you helped me decide that one. Starting to think I might have been Ok.....

[BDPowerDave]

Originally Posted by Schoust

Hey Dave is it your opinion still that the special is really not the turbo for an every day driver 12 valve engined truck? I talked with you a while back about this and I was wondering if you still felt this way? I really wanted to go that route but I wasn't sure you helped me decide that one. Starting to think I might have been Ok.....

Yes that is still my opinion, only you would know if you could live with it, tough call!

If you are running past 450HP and do not mind loosing a little spool up time in exchange for a whole lot of top end then the special is okay. Its those times in slower traffic that you loose that driveability, the turbo does not get a chance to light up. I have customers out there that really don't care about that or spend so much time on the open road that it does not matter and are happy with the Special. Here in Vancouver with the congestion I like the snappy response of the Super B Single until I can offord twins.

[chrleb1]

Mine is puching high boost because of fuel. I think the wastegate is set at 42. Mine isn't altered or pinched.

[BDPowerDave]

Originally Posted by chrleb1

Mine is puching high boost because of fuel. I think the wastegate is set at 42. Mine isn't altered or pinched.

What do you mean by punching high boost, the boost is spiking to 42 PSI soon as you get you foot into it?

[SuperDave4x4]

Well I like my Super B special. I can hit 950* with just everyday driving down back roads with hills to and from work/school, but this is luggin the motor and my tc is locked at about 45-52 or so mph. The highest I've hit was around 1150* going up a nice long hill while doing 54-60mph. I knew this charger was going to be laggy, but I expected it to be worse to tell you the truth. To me it's fine for everday driving. I mean hell I don't floor it from light to light or stop sign to stop sign. It's a pretty larger charger! If I do get on it in town I roll into it and then get on it and it does just fine. I'm still getting used to it and I like it more and more everyday I drive it.


Oh and the top end on this sucker is WOW!

[BDPowerDave]

Originally Posted by SuperDave4x4

Well I like my Super B special. I can hit 950* with just everyday driving down back roads with hills to and from work/school, but this is luggin the motor and my tc is locked at about 45-52 or so mph. The highest I've hit was around 1150* going up a nice long hill while doing 54-60mph. I knew this charger was going to be laggy, but I expected it to be worse to tell you the truth. To me it's fine for everday driving. I mean hell I don't floor it from light to light or stop sign to stop sign. It's a pretty larger charger! If I do get on it in town I roll into it and then get on it and it does just fine. I'm still getting used to it and I like it more and more everyday I drive it.


Oh and the top end on this sucker is WOW!

Thanks for the excellent report, that really describes the Super B Special well, your driving style is well suited to the Special.

[chrleb1]

I meant to spell pushing.... sometimes i don't read my writing. Anyways, if i have my fueling turned down, the wastegate is able to keep the boost at 42 or so. If i turn up the fueling, the wastegate doesn't do a good enough job and the boost keeps climbing. That is why i can hit 60 psi with this turbo and that is not touching the wastegate straight from the box.

[BDPowerDave]

I though so, I do it all the time!

870 HP holy poop! no wonder the wastegate is not helping!

I would love to see a set of R700 BD twins on that truck. Lets find a home for the Special and work you a deal on the R700's

[chrleb1]

Actually i am building a compound setup right now. It'll be a Pius USB over an S510 and dual intercooled and dual wastegated. I plan on pushing 2,100 cfm worth of air. No offence what-so-ever, I don't think the R700 twin setup will support 4,000 rpm and 75 psi and push 2,100 without super-heating the air. I want over 1,000 hp. I think the R700 will only push .8 to .85 kg/s . I need roughly 1.04 - 1.14 kg/s with 4,000 rpms.

I know the R700 is an awesome setup for pushing 700-800 hp. I'm just concerned on what it would do with RPMs. I'll be running 50 mm and 38 mm wastegates to control the exhaust and boost pressures.