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Old 11-03-2017, 12:47 PM   #41
takedown95
 
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Originally Posted by jones95runner View Post
What's sad is where are pretty much right back where we were 5 years ago, with the exception of the 3000+ hp ss trucks

2.5/2.6 smooth is the old 2.6 class. 9-1000hp+ air cooler on dots

3.0 smooth is the old 3.0 mwe air/water 1300hp+ gutted bed odl on dots

3.6 is basically ss power levels of that era, 1800hp+ on cut tires.

What have we gained by this? Not jack crap besides running a bunch of people off that started this sport because they got tired of the change. You see very few pullers today that have been around for longer than 3-4 years.
I don't disagree but I have seen them work to eliminate some of the "gray" areas in the rules and try to make the classes closer to tractor classes. That seems to be a successful formula in most states. I am guessing they hate dealing with the rule changes and loop holes as much as anyone.

I think moving to SB turbos and tire/chassis (single tire-stock, duals-ODL, bar-ODL-Tube) distinction between classes is a good thing. It's sad they chased some of the founding years members out but hopefully this will bring more in.

As technology changed and ways to make HP increased it was bound to have an impact on the rules. The entire diesel industry has grown as a result. I did an economic analysis on the aftermarket diesel part industry from 2000-2017 and the growth was amazing. With that growth will come headaches but overall I think it's a good thing.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:45 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by takedown95 View Post

I think moving to SB turbos and tire/chassis (single tire-stock, duals-ODL, bar-ODL-Tube) distinction between classes is a good thing.

I think this has been one of the major problems all along, .I always said the classes need to be able to sustain their selves at a local level and i just have always said 4 classes is too much for that to happen, with the number of trucks there is.

2 years ago was the perfect time to fix this i think. 3.0/3.6 should have combined to a 1500hp dot-odl gutted,smooth bore class and I think In the end everyone would have been a lot more happier. But supposedly promoters wanted cut tires, well what 3.6 actully got was almost half as many points hooks as they had before in the 3.0 mwe class, and most needed to spend 25k+ just to come back the next year for like 10 points hooks. And that included the few big 2 day pulls.

Last edited by jones95runner; 11-03-2017 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:41 AM   #43
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2 years ago was the perfect time to fix this i think. 3.0/3.6 should have combined to a 1500hp dot-odl gutted,smooth bore class and I think In the end everyone would have been a lot more happier. But supposedly promoters wanted cut tires, well what 3.6 actully got was almost half as many points hooks as they had before in the 3.0 mwe class, and most needed to spend 25k+ just to come back the next year for like 10 points hooks. And that included the few big 2 day pulls.
Agree. No doubt!
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:33 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by jones95runner View Post
I think this has been one of the major problems all along, .I always said the classes need to be able to sustain their selves at a local level and i just have always said 4 classes is too much for that to happen, with the number of trucks there is.

2 years ago was the perfect time to fix this i think. 3.0/3.6 should have combined to a 1500hp dot-odl gutted,smooth bore class and I think In the end everyone would have been a lot more happier. But supposedly promoters wanted cut tires, well what 3.6 actully got was almost half as many points hooks as they had before in the 3.0 mwe class, and most needed to spend 25k+ just to come back the next year for like 10 points hooks. And that included the few big 2 day pulls.
Agreed! What are the differences now between the Pro Stock Diesel Trucks (3.6) and the Limited Pro Diesel Trucks (3.0) if the bed floor and weight gets changed?

Turbo size, bar vs DOT tires, cab floor, and water injection.

Badger State did not run bar tires for 2017. It looks like it is time to merge these two classes!
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:03 AM   #45
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Agreed! What are the differences now between the Pro Stock Diesel Trucks (3.6) and the Limited Pro Diesel Trucks (3.0) if the bed floor and weight gets changed?

Turbo size, bar vs DOT tires, cab floor, and water injection.

Badger State did not run bar tires for 2017. It looks like it is time to merge these two classes!
Agreed. I would like to see badger state not fallow suit of ppl. They realy hurt ppl last year by staying dots, and ppl lost several hooks up that direction because of them.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:42 AM   #46
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Agreed. I would like to see badger state not fallow suit of ppl. They realy hurt ppl last year by staying dots, and ppl lost several hooks up that direction because of them.
Isn't badger state a PPL member state (affiliate)? I understand they can dictate local rules a bit but still fall under PPL.
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Old 11-06-2017, 12:20 PM   #47
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Isn't badger state a PPL member state (affiliate)? I understand they can dictate local rules a bit but still fall under PPL.
You are correct. I'm hoping the push for the bar tires this year so people can tell the class apart. I've had people in the tractor classes ask me the difference cause they couldn't tell which class is which

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Old 11-06-2017, 01:40 PM   #48
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You are correct. I'm hoping the push for the bar tires this year so people can tell the class apart. I've had people in the tractor classes ask me the difference cause they couldn't tell which class is which

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I wasn't completely familiar with what all happened, but since the guys voted to stay away from bar tires I know the ppl points hooks for 3.6 fell drastically to almost nothing? That class with badger state didn't co-sanction with a lot of hooks last 2 years?
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:42 PM   #49
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The reason some people don't want bar tires is they think their front axle won't handle it. Still running Dana 60's.

Four people ran for points in the Limited Pro class and eight in the Pro Stock with DOT tire class. If we want DOT tires we should adopt the Limited Pro rules and allow cut cab floors and water injection. One class that works for all.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:32 PM   #50
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Last year's rule changes didn't seem to do anything to help truck counts... Gee, the Rocky Top 2017 event had 23 TOTAL trucks hook in 3 classes with 10 Limited Pro Stocks as the biggest class of the night... It really was pretty sad for a PPL event to have such a poor turnout...

I started shooting Dustin Jackson's drag truck as soon as the drag race was over and then went over to the fairgrounds for the pull and it was 1/2 over by the time I got there...
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:10 PM   #51
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Last year's rule changes didn't seem to do anything to help truck counts... Gee, the Rocky Top 2017 event had 23 TOTAL trucks hook in 3 classes with 10 Limited Pro Stocks as the biggest class of the night... It really was pretty sad for a PPL event to have such a poor turnout...

I started shooting Dustin Jackson's drag truck as soon as the drag race was over and then went over to the fairgrounds for the pull and it was 1/2 over by the time I got there...
No offense to TN but there was a two day Grand National Hook in OH for NTPA that was over the same period. I doubt many guys from IN/OH are going to go to a 1 day hook in TN when they can stay close to home for a 2-day NTPA Grand National hook.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:30 PM   #52
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No offense to TN but there was a two day Grand National Hook in OH for NTPA that was over the same period. I doubt many guys from IN/OH are going to go to a 1 day hook in TN when they can stay close to home for a 2-day NTPA Grand National hook.
I can't blame them, and in from tn lol.

So what's the reason only about half of the ss trucks ran for ppl points this year and a lot chases ntpa?
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:07 PM   #53
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No offense to TN but there was a two day Grand National Hook in OH for NTPA that was over the same period. I doubt many guys from IN/OH are going to go to a 1 day hook in TN when they can stay close to home for a 2-day NTPA Grand National hook.
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I can't blame them, and in from tn lol.

So what's the reason only about half of the ss trucks ran for ppl points this year and a lot chases ntpa?
For sure, schedule effected it as well... But PPL event truck counts seemed to be down at every event I was at this year... In year's past it seemed that the pullers would go to the PPL events no matter what, that no longer seems to be the case...

I'm not sure if it is rules or something else, but PPL has seemed to have lost a lot of their pull... Pun intended. hahaha
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:35 PM   #54
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For sure, schedule effected it as well... But PPL event truck counts seemed to be down at every event I was at this year... In year's past it seemed that the pullers would go to the PPL events no matter what, that no longer seems to be the case...

I'm not sure if it is rules or something else, but PPL has seemed to have lost a lot of their pull... Pun intended. hahaha
Seems to me people are getting tired of traveling 20k miles a year to run points. Ntpa seems to have a fairly centrally located pulls. Then hit the big 2 day ppl pulls
Or close to the house pulls.
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Old 11-06-2017, 07:01 PM   #55
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I can't blame them, and in from tn lol.

So what's the reason only about half of the ss trucks ran for ppl points this year and a lot chases ntpa?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Tobin View Post
For sure, schedule effected it as well... But PPL event truck counts seemed to be down at every event I was at this year... In year's past it seemed that the pullers would go to the PPL events no matter what, that no longer seems to be the case...

I'm not sure if it is rules or something else, but PPL has seemed to have lost a lot of their pull... Pun intended. hahaha
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Seems to me people are getting tired of traveling 20k miles a year to run points. Ntpa seems to have a fairly centrally located pulls. Then hit the big 2 day ppl pulls
Or close to the house pulls.
I think this is it. The number of events for NTPA GN points was around 7 and you got 10-11 hooks, all within a few hours of most folks (besides Tomah). PPL was around 12 events with 18 hooks and ranged from Wisconsin to NC. With PPL once you missed two hooks you no longer got Tow Pro money so you really had to commit to almost all of the events. I think only three trucks made all the PPL hooks (8 if don't include the TN hook) while 12 trucks made all the NTPA hooks.

I think PPL may even pay a little better than NTPA but if you want a shot at points championship you have to make a huge commitment.

There were certainly trucks that ran both but there were also some that stuck mostly to NTPA except Schied and some that stuck to PPL.

Once NTPA made it a GN class the number of trucks running NTPA more than doubled.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:47 PM   #56
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From my perspective it seems as though 3.0 sb took a pretty hard hit the first year after the sb/odl rule change but its coming back in force. I made the jump up from 2.5 this year and pulled with NTPA, we averaged about 15 trucks a night for the first year running with them with 9 region 2 hooks, highest was 18 trucks. From what I have heard so far the hook number will only grow. I know OSTPA had a decent following of them as well and we have a pretty good group here in Michigan with a NTPA state level class now along with another organization that may switch to 3.0 for next year. 3.6 seems to be suffering pretty badly, one of the two NTPA hooks had zero 3.6s show up I heard? I see the gutted beds in 3.0 as just another nail in 3.6s coffin.
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:27 PM   #57
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Our club struggled this year with 3.0 trucks, we're on the fringe of PPL & Outlaw territory. Outlaws shot themselves in the foot with a spec fuel, while PPL had good numbers in the beginning of 2017, then trickled down to 10ish trucks a hook.

My opinion, as a club director, there only needs to be 3 diesel truck classes:
  • 2.6 smooth bore - air to air i/c's, single rear tires only
  • any single smooth bore charger - open driveline, factory frame, DOT tires, 7500lbs
  • Super Stock - multi-charger, cut tires, tube frame, 7-7500lbs

The above are just guidelines, that in my opinion would help grow the classes. This constant rule changing BS has to stop, I've seen probably 15-20 trucks in our area alone get parted out and sold or parked due to rule changes every single year.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:44 AM   #58
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Our club struggled this year with 3.0 trucks, we're on the fringe of PPL & Outlaw territory. Outlaws shot themselves in the foot with a spec fuel, while PPL had good numbers in the beginning of 2017, then trickled down to 10ish trucks a hook.

My opinion, as a club director, there only needs to be 3 diesel truck classes:
  • 2.6 smooth bore - air to air i/c's, single rear tires only
  • any single smooth bore charger - open driveline, factory frame, DOT tires, 7500lbs
  • Super Stock - multi-charger, cut tires, tube frame, 7-7500lbs

The above are just guidelines, that in my opinion would help grow the classes. This constant rule changing BS has to stop, I've seen probably 15-20 trucks in our area alone get parted out and sold or parked due to rule changes every single year.
A couple of thoughts on your rules from my perspective. Overall, I like the class breakdown. I don't understand why if it's any single would you restrict to smooth bore? or are you saying there's a specific spec size like it has to be a 3.0 or 3.6?

I get concerned with weights being down at 7000-7500 pounds. It's difficult to get diesel trucks down to 7500 with stock frame and metal body. Same with 7000 for a tube chassis and fiberglass body. It can be done but when you have a 158" wheel base you need to put more weight out front. Folks already have a really hard time getting the power to the track in SS and with little weight on the front end you chatter the tires often which results in a broken locker almost every time.

I like weight break downs that would be closer to 8200-8500, 7800-8000, and 7500-7700. This way more guys can get into the entry level classes with more stock trucks and the higher classes can get the power to the ground while still leaving the need to "drive and set-up" the truck.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:49 AM   #59
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No offense to TN but there was a two day Grand National Hook in OH for NTPA that was over the same period. I doubt many guys from IN/OH are going to go to a 1 day hook in TN when they can stay close to home for a 2-day NTPA Grand National hook.
I heard yesterday that the same thing might happen again in 2018 so you're going to have trucks that chase points in one organization or another and not have enough invested to make the longer hauls.

I also heard that NTPA might have the SS in Benson, NC so now you will have to travel from WI to NC to compete there as well. I guess that's one way to keep the riff raff out. haha
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:53 PM   #60
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A couple of thoughts on your rules from my perspective. Overall, I like the class breakdown. I don't understand why if it's any single would you restrict to smooth bore? or are you saying there's a specific spec size like it has to be a 3.0 or 3.6?

I get concerned with weights being down at 7000-7500 pounds. It's difficult to get diesel trucks down to 7500 with stock frame and metal body. Same with 7000 for a tube chassis and fiberglass body. It can be done but when you have a 158" wheel base you need to put more weight out front. Folks already have a really hard time getting the power to the track in SS and with little weight on the front end you chatter the tires often which results in a broken locker almost every time.

I like weight break downs that would be closer to 8200-8500, 7800-8000, and 7500-7700. This way more guys can get into the entry level classes with more stock trucks and the higher classes can get the power to the ground while still leaving the need to "drive and set-up" the truck.

I'm not sure why I typed smooth bore to be honest, it was probably already on my mind after working on the 2.6 smooth rules for our club. I don't have a preference to any particular size charger, just any single. But hanging a single 5.5" charger meant for a 680cu prostock on a 460cu motor probably won't work out that great..lol

The weight argument is kinda a toss up for me. I know that a diesel is going to weigh more than a gasser, but when you start throwing around tube frames and fiberglass bodies, that weight can drop pretty quick. I'm still in favor of not going over 8000lb for any sanctioned diesel truck class.

I was basing my assumptions by comparing the ssd4x4 trucks to the sm4x4 trucks, but didn't realize that there was almost 24-25" difference in wheelbase. I assumed they were all 158". Didn't know this till looking at the PPL rulebook while writing this post. So, yes, getting to light will be detrimental to driveline parts.
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