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04-15-2018, 08:08 AM
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#1
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Name: Sabastian458
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8
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Need help/advice- new build-no start issue
Quick run down, rebuilt my spare truck’s 12 valve. Stock build but added the beginner mods. 1996 12 Valve 215 p-pump manual trans
Stock pistons, stock cam,16 degree ppump timing, 60 valve springs, 4K gsk’s, lift pump spring upgrade, -8 fuel lines with sump, dual feed, 24v oil pump, 13in ceramic clutch.
Once together I bled fuel, got fuel leaking from each injector, tightened down and attempted starting. No go. Won’t even fire off and try to start. Pretty sure starter is on its way out after trying for so long. Works currently but will stick in “starting” position at times, after repeated start attempts.
So I checked injection timing, thinking it may have slipped. Nope, still where I set it. Checked cam timing, “0” and “00” are where they are suppose to be. I had pulled ppump to reset to pin time (couldn’t see timing flange in pump. Putting back together at stock timing now)
I’m out of ideas. Other than maybe the crankshaft might be out 180 from the cam. Is that possible? I had cyl 1 at tdc when I put the bottom together and assumed that putting the cam mark with the crank mark would be good enough. But is it possible that it could be off and cause the no start?
Cliffs.
Rebuilt short block
New fuel system
No start
Ppump timing good
Cam/crank mark good
Fuel shut off valve is up when starting
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04-15-2018, 08:13 AM
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#2
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,396
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Does it huff white smoke when trying to crank. I was helping a buddy get his started after a pump swap. He had it so out of time it wouldn't even hit on ether. How are you setting injection timing?
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04-15-2018, 08:15 AM
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#3
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: U.S.A
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabastian458
Quick run down, rebuilt my spare truck’s 12 valve. Stock build but added the beginner mods. 1996 12 Valve 215 p-pump manual trans
Stock pistons, stock cam,16 degree ppump timing, 60 valve springs, 4K gsk’s, lift pump spring upgrade, -8 fuel lines with sump, dual feed, 24v oil pump, 13in ceramic clutch.
Once together I bled fuel, got fuel leaking from each injector, tightened down and attempted starting. No go. Won’t even fire off and try to start. Pretty sure starter is on its way out after trying for so long. Works currently but will stick in “starting” position at times, after repeated start attempts.
So I checked injection timing, thinking it may have slipped. Nope, still where I set it. Checked cam timing, “0” and “00” are where they are suppose to be. I had pulled ppump to reset to pin time (couldn’t see timing flange in pump. Putting back together at stock timing now)
I’m out of ideas. Other than maybe the crankshaft might be out 180 from the cam. Is that possible? I had cyl 1 at tdc when I put the bottom together and assumed that putting the cam mark with the crank mark would be good enough. But is it possible that it could be off and cause the no start?
Cliffs.
Rebuilt short block
New fuel system
No start
Ppump timing good
Cam/crank mark good
Fuel shut off valve is up when starting
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Don't go by the 0 and 00. Put the cover on the front and the balancer, then find tdc on the engine. The drop valve method works the best. Tdc the engine, pin the pump. Done. Also leave one injector cracked and the rest tight to purge the very last of the air. It will run on 5 then tighten the last one.
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04-15-2018, 01:08 PM
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#4
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Name: f6jbob
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: western Wi.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,153
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Make sure the fuel shutoff solenoid is working properly.
__________________
2006 RCSB Dodge Goerend tranny and converter, Stainless Diesel twins and exhaust manifold, B&B intake manifold, T&C Diesel CP3, rail and dual prv, Hellman intercooler, Porting by Joker Fabrication, Isspro Performax gauges, AirDog fuel pump. Supported by Pure Diesel Power, Garmons Diesel Performance, Blacks Diesel Performance and above vendors.
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04-15-2018, 09:13 PM
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#5
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Name: Sabastian458
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8
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No white smoke. I put 1 on tdc before head went on, then matched the cam/crank gear marks up. The p-pump I pin timed before installing on the truck. Once on, I used the dial indicator in the cyl 1 bore to advance the timing. Like how “god prefers diesels” videos on YouTube.
Bleeding the fuel wasn’t/isn’t the issue. I gravity bled until I had fuel coming out of the -8 lines, then hand primed the lift pump until fuel came out of the return OFV on the pump, then had all 6 lines on the injectors cracked until fuel had a good leak out of them then tightened.
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04-15-2018, 09:23 PM
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#6
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Name: Mark Nixon
Title: No Savior among the flesh
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brownville, Nebraska
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8,676
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You know the starter has issues, your next step should be plain to see.
Mark.
__________________
If you or I did business like the PEOPLE in government do business, we'd be put in jail. Government is coercive.
Anarchy: The state of existence where there are no masters & no slaves. Therefore, Anarchy means the ABSENCE OF SLAVERY, or, in other words, FREEDOM.
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04-15-2018, 09:35 PM
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#7
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Name: Sabastian458
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Nixon
You know the starter has issues, your next step should be plain to see.
Mark.
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But the starter still spins the engine over. I can address the starter sticking, should be a set of new contacts. But that would/shouldn’t keep the truck from starting, at least hitting off a few times or something.
And I physically made sure the fuel shut off was in the pulled position.
If I’m missing something obviouse please enlighten me, I’ll gladly check it out. I’ve gotten frustrated with this to the point I’m siure I’m over looking something because I’m frustrated.
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04-15-2018, 09:47 PM
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#8
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Name: Mark Nixon
Title: No Savior among the flesh
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brownville, Nebraska
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8,676
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It may still spin it over, but you've mentioned it sticking, which means it's been hot, which likely caused more internal damage.
So, now it doesn't spin the engine over fast enough to make enough pressure for the pump to pop the injectors.
Mark.
__________________
If you or I did business like the PEOPLE in government do business, we'd be put in jail. Government is coercive.
Anarchy: The state of existence where there are no masters & no slaves. Therefore, Anarchy means the ABSENCE OF SLAVERY, or, in other words, FREEDOM.
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04-16-2018, 08:30 AM
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#9
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Name: Sabastian458
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 8
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Interesting, I didn’t think of that. I will swap starters off my main truck to see if it will start with that. (New NAPA replacement) I will update once I accomplish that.
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04-17-2018, 09:45 AM
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#10
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Name: gman99
Title: Diesel Enthusiast
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 224
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I'm not sure how much I believe it wouldn't try to start if everything is right. I had a weak battery engine turning slow, ALL 6 injector lines cracked while bleeding the system and it still started. Shot fuel out of the lines and sprayed diesel everywhere. Definitely not intentional and to be honest it scared the crap out of me, lol.
__________________
98 QCLB 4x4 12V, ARP625+ Studs, 14mm mains NonIC pistons, Ported head, Marine Cam, Hamilton Pushrods and Tappets, BeeHive springs HE351cw over Billet S475, 4KGSK, 5X.018's, 7mm DV's, 24 Degrees Timing, 5" Exhaust, TCS Input, DPC Converter, Firepunk Competition Rebuild Kit
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04-17-2018, 11:41 AM
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#11
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Name: Tate
Title: What?
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Airdrie, Alberta
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,419
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How much throttle are you giving it while you crank? My hunch is on the GSK install. If the idle screw is too far out, or the springs weren't set right, no fuel.
__________________
'98 3500 2wd, 24v, 5 spd, p-pumped
'98 2500 4wd, 12v, 6 spd, VP'd
'02 VW Jetta, 5 spd.
My p-pump conversion pics
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04-23-2018, 12:27 AM
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#12
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Name: RAMblin Fever
Title: Green Behind the Ears
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Middle Tennessee
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 76
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Get it running?
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08-26-2018, 11:39 AM
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#13
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Name: stroked diesel
Title: Coach Peacock
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Denton, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 209
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Bumping this back up as i am having the same issue, curious if OP cured the prob. Got pump back from Seth, set motor at TDC, installed everything just how it came off, bled system have fuel at all 6 injectors. wont even try to turn over
__________________
98.5 P-Pumped 24v-SOLD
99 Sport 4x4- stock SOLD
97 3500- Air ride g56 swap tow rig
96 2500 4x4- under the knife
13' Ram 3500 4x4 DRW
Matthew 17:20
Isiah 41:10
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08-26-2018, 12:00 PM
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#14
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: U.S.A
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,715
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You left the pump pinned when you went to tdc right?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
puzzy, tune it.
I don't own anything stock, from engines to boobies I've modded them all. Life is too short to live with mediocre chit.
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08-26-2018, 12:33 PM
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#15
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Name: T-MAN
Title: misunderstood
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroked diesel
Bumping this back up as i am having the same issue, curious if OP cured the prob. Got pump back from Seth, set motor at TDC, installed everything just how it came off, bled system have fuel at all 6 injectors. wont even try to turn over
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Not sure if you know but top dead center happens twice per cycle, compression stroke (the one you want) and exhaust stroke. did you make sure both #1 valves were loose on tdc? the pump can go in 180* out and not run.... sorry if you already knew this....
__________________
2001.5 ppump allison 11.399@ 117.90 6850#
1997 rcsb 12v 6.7 9.38 @ 146.54
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08-26-2018, 01:52 PM
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#16
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Name: stroked diesel
Title: Coach Peacock
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Denton, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95cummins5.9
You left the pump pinned when you went to tdc right?
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Yes sir i did, I put motor at TDC before i installed the pump and left it pinned until i did final torque on gear nut
__________________
98.5 P-Pumped 24v-SOLD
99 Sport 4x4- stock SOLD
97 3500- Air ride g56 swap tow rig
96 2500 4x4- under the knife
13' Ram 3500 4x4 DRW
Matthew 17:20
Isiah 41:10
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08-26-2018, 02:59 PM
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#17
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: U.S.A
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,715
|
How clean did you get the tapered shaft and gear? Electrical cleaner works the best, no residue, lightly blow compressed air on it and torqued to 175 ft lbs?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
puzzy, tune it.
I don't own anything stock, from engines to boobies I've modded them all. Life is too short to live with mediocre chit.
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08-26-2018, 04:33 PM
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#18
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Name: stroked diesel
Title: Coach Peacock
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Denton, TX
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 209
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I got it started, thanks 95cummins, I cleaned it good with everything you mentioned and torqued it down. I had made a foolish rookie mistake and motor was not at true TDC but instead I installed it 180* off.
Again thanks for the info, once i pulled the pin cover off again to find the pump pin I went up and felt the #1 valves, they were not loose. Immediately knew what i did wrong.
Thats what I get for being in a hurry.
__________________
98.5 P-Pumped 24v-SOLD
99 Sport 4x4- stock SOLD
97 3500- Air ride g56 swap tow rig
96 2500 4x4- under the knife
13' Ram 3500 4x4 DRW
Matthew 17:20
Isiah 41:10
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08-26-2018, 04:41 PM
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#19
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Name: T-MAN
Title: misunderstood
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 352
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Man wish I thought of that.... smh
__________________
2001.5 ppump allison 11.399@ 117.90 6850#
1997 rcsb 12v 6.7 9.38 @ 146.54
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08-26-2018, 05:05 PM
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#20
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Name: 95cummins5.9
Title: Old man ***** gossiper
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: U.S.A
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,715
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Hahaha
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfaulkner
puzzy, tune it.
I don't own anything stock, from engines to boobies I've modded them all. Life is too short to live with mediocre chit.
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