2008 F450 Swap

[Betrayed Wraith]

Hi all,
So I was offered what I think is a good deal on an 08 F450 XL with a hole in the block (6.4L) I know how expensive it is to repair/replace these, so I'm thinking about putting a Cummins in instead. What I can't decide is a 12, 24, or CR. I'm fairly technical, and I am going to do most of the work myself along with some friends with a lot of experience. Any recommendations as to which engine/transmission? (Comes with the 5R110W). The biggest load I'd currently be pulling would be around 14k pounds, but could potentially have a 19k gooseneck soon as well. MPG is a much bigger factor than starting line takeoff!
TIA

[bracker8040]

There is no economical solution to a 6.4.
You can completely and correctly overhaul a 6.4 (expect to have close to $20,000 in it if you replace the injectors, K16, and turbos) and have excellent power, all accessories working (a/c, cruise, dash, etc), but reliability is somewhat questionable even on a properly built 6.4.

If you Cummins swap it, you won’t save a dime over rebuilding the 6.4, especially not if you want the dash, a/c, cruise, etc to work, you will have to address the trans issue (more money, and/or time) to tune what you have, or swap it for something else.

If you want the power that a stock fuel and air, tuned 6.4 has out of any Cummins you use, you’ll have to spend a bit of money.

The only thing you might gain with a Cummins swap is some reliability.

If you think a Cummins swap is “easy”, especially if you use an electronic Cummins, take a look at biggy238’s thread (F250/Cummins swap) on here and see if you have the time, talents, or money to do it.

[turbom700]

I guess I will chime in as I just got done doing this to the exact same truck other then its a f350 and not a f450.

I swapped in a P-pump24v, zf-6 and run all ford accessory. I also own a business that makes the swap parts, such as adapter plates, accessory brackets,etc.

If you went the 12v way.
Figure 1500-2k for the motor
My Adapter plate and flexplate is 1k
My accessory drive including Ford Ps,Alt,and Ac(no line mods needed) is 825. 300 for the Ac and 425 for the PS set-up
HP tuners for the transmission is 100-300 depending if you know someone with it.
Figure another 500 for driveshaft shorting and Downpipe fab and intercooler fab.
Wiring is simple you can do that yourself.

That will get you atleast up and running.

I would say if you can turn a wrench and are good at problem solving IE reading and asking questions online. These swaps are really easy in my mind. I can do one in about 40hrs if I have everything here.

Cruise control on these trucks is a little more of a challenge as Ford did what Ford does and in 2005 changed the resistance values on the cruise buttons to something complete different then they have been using for the last 35yrs. What I did was resolider in new resitors on my cruise control buttons then run a cruise control servo from a 2000 V10 truck.

If you have anyquestions feel free to PM me.

[bracker8040]

Originally Posted by turbom700

I guess I will chime in as I just got done doing this to the exact same truck other then its a f350 and not a f450.

I swapped in a P-pump24v, zf-6 and run all ford accessory. I also own a business that makes the swap parts, such as adapter plates, accessory brackets,etc.

If you went the 12v way.
Figure 1500-2k for the motor
My Adapter plate and flexplate is 1k
My accessory drive including Ford Ps,Alt,and Ac(no line mods needed) is 825. 300 for the Ac and 425 for the PS set-up
HP tuners for the transmission is 100-300 depending if you know someone with it.
Figure another 500 for driveshaft shorting and Downpipe fab and intercooler fab.
Wiring is simple you can do that yourself.

That will get you atleast up and running.

I would say if you can turn a wrench and are good at problem solving IE reading and asking questions online. These swaps are really easy in my mind. I can do one in about 40hrs if I have everything here.

Cruise control on these trucks is a little more of a challenge as Ford did what Ford does and in 2005 changed the resistance values on the cruise buttons to something complete different then they have been using for the last 35yrs. What I did was resolider in new resitors on my cruise control buttons then run a cruise control servo from a 2000 V10 truck.

If you have anyquestions feel free to PM me.

This is some awesome info.

What if you have a Lariat or King Ranch? How much does that complicate matters?

[turbom700]

Not at all that's only changing interior and shift on the fly t-case. Engine wiring is all the same.

[b.lee]

Originally Posted by bracker8040

The only thing you might gain with a Cummins swap is some reliability.

"might"? "some"?

[bracker8040]

Originally Posted by b.lee

"might"? "some"?

Yup, might gain some reliability.

Want me lo list common engine issues that each generation commonly has, that most people conveniently “forget” when talking about Cummins reliability?

[turbom700]

Only thing that drives me nuts on mine is the dam oil leaks, I went thru and resealed the motor and it still leaking somewhere. Oh and they are noisy that's gets old after a while.

[raychem]

Originally Posted by bracker8040

Yup, might gain some reliability.

Want me lo list common engine issues that each generation commonly has, that most people conveniently “forget” when talking about Cummins reliability?

Injectors.... and that's all 5.9L. Much better in the 6.7L version. Really don't see all that many issues with the 6.7L injector. 5.9 injectors if left on stock power and no programming are OK. I have seen trucks with 150-200K on stock injectors and NO programming of any sort.

Early 3rd gen which is mostly 03-04... Valve seats and they were addressed in 05 and later engines.

6.7L have turbo issues and that is mostly due to the early teething years of DPFs and VGTs.

Lets see...24v the vp44's are garbage but if taken care of they can go 100-150K.

12v KDP

No engine is without fault per say. But don't tell me they are less reliable as all them Ford 6.0, 6.4, and couple of 6.7s I have had to work on. Like all things, If the engine is running right they are ok.

Now that Ford switched to common rail we are back to the same issue Cummins had back in the day. I have done more than a few sets of injectors on 6.4L this year and another coming in next week.

I like Cummins. Very easy to work on. You bring me a Ford and everything is 2-3x longer to do with the exception of the newer 6.4 & 6.7.

[b.lee]

Originally Posted by bracker8040

Yup, might gain some reliability.

Want me lo list common engine issues that each generation commonly has, that most people conveniently “forget” when talking about Cummins reliability?

Nah, I've owned them all. No complaints, no engine/turbo/injector failures.
All high mileage trucks, 230k to 420k.

Did you "forget" that no one does a powerstroke swap?

[Destroked 450]

Originally Posted by turbom700

I guess I will chime in as I just got done doing this to the exact same truck other then its a f350 and not a f450.

I swapped in a P-pump24v, zf-6 and run all ford accessory. I also own a business that makes the swap parts, such as adapter plates, accessory brackets,etc.

If you have anyquestions feel free to PM me.

Care to tell us the name of your business that makes these conversion parts.

I went with a 12v conversion and ZF6 manual trans.
12v won't make the easily tuned power of the electronic controlled engines but I feel it is a little more reliable.
Main reason I went with a 12v was low cost to repair and much easier to work on.
Doing the work myself i rebuilt the engine and did the complete swap for less than $10K, minus the gear swap.

[Meyers Farms]

Originally Posted by Destroked 450

Care to tell us the name of your business that makes these conversion parts.

I went with a 12v conversion and ZF6 manual trans.
12v won't make the easily tuned power of the electronic controlled engines but I feel it is a little more reliable.
Main reason I went with a 12v was low cost to repair and much easier to work on.
Doing the work myself i rebuilt the engine and did the complete swap for less than $10K, minus the gear swap.

Same reasons I did the same swap. I’m interested in business info as well.