Advertisement
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Home Who's Online Today's Posts HP Calculator CompD Gift Shop Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together > Tech Area- Dodge > Dodge Competition and Performance
Register Members List Timeslips EFI Live Library Invite Your Friends FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-22-2010, 06:03 PM   #1
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
Injector Breakdown

Marker - part name
Black - shim
Red - compression spring
Green - compression pin
Blue - intermediate disk

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Marker - part name
Black - feed passage
Red - alignment pins
Green - pin opening/pintle

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Marker - part name
Black - pintle seat
Red - sac/blind-hole
Click the image to open in full size.
Sac nozzle with cylindrical blind-hole.

Marker - part name
Black - pintle seat
Red - sac/blind-hole
Click the image to open in full size.
Sac nozzle with micro blind-hole.

Marker - part name
Black - pintle seat
Red - nozzle tip
Click the image to open in full size.
VCO nozzle.

Marker - part name
Red - needle guide
Green - feed passage
Blue - fuel gallery
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:06 PM.
 
Old 06-22-2010, 06:11 PM   #2
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
12v body area where the compression spring is installed and the return passage.
Click the image to open in full size.

12v body feed passage with edge filter removed.
Click the image to open in full size.

24v body area where the compression spring is installed and the return passage.
Click the image to open in full size.

24v body feed passage.
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:04 PM.
 
Old 06-22-2010, 06:14 PM   #3
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
VCO - Micro blind-hole - Cylindrical blind-hole
Click the image to open in full size.

VCO - Micro blind-hole - Cylindrical blind-hole
Click the image to open in full size.

Same nozzle, difference in pintle design.
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:12 PM.
 
Old 06-22-2010, 06:38 PM   #4
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
Micro-blind side by side with a VCO, both are 145 5x0.018".
Click the image to open in full size.

Micro blind-hole.
Click the image to open in full size.

Cylindrical blind-hole.
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:24 PM.
 
Old 06-22-2010, 06:42 PM   #5
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
A sac style nozzle alleviates a few issues that are common with the VCO nozzle. Needle steer being the main issue, and also a smaller failure rate since the pintle never contacts the spray orifices. The sac volume plays into the amount of power produced and also the amount of haze or smoke in correlation to the engine size. You can use a larger volume sac nozzle to make a bit more power, but haze will increase as will overall unburnt fuel. There is a balance to provide good hp characteristics yet retain streetability, in a maximum effort platform this would not be a concern.

Needle steer or low lift needle deviation basically is the pintle flexing during actuation, this leads to some orifices being uncovered earlier than the others. With wear this problem worsens, this uneven pattern early in the injection event was attempted to be corrected/reduced by using a secondary needle guide, found in the CR applications. However, due to the overall tolerance issues associated with the secondary guide, they 6.7L has gone back to a micro-blind nozzle to deal with the same issue, simplicity wins. These low lift areas in the injection event are much more subjective to the VCO nozzle due to the fact that the uneven flow is being controlled by the pintle seat covering the orifice, whereas in the sac nozzle the flow is being fed from the blind-hole.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:26 PM.
 
Old 06-22-2010, 06:50 PM   #6
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
Marker - part name
Black - needle guide
Red - pin
Green - pintle tip
Click the image to open in full size.
In this picture the needle guide has 3 basic functions; to support the pintle in it's movement, to control the return rate, and also to control the allowed vertical movement of the pintle. If the tolerance is lost between the nozzle and guide, the pintle will stick open, foreign debris is often the cause. Removing material from the upper edge of the needle guide, also known as the stroke-limiting collar, will increase the allowable vertical movement. The pintle tip can also be ground to increase the dead volume in the nozzle tip if in a VCO style, or blind-hole if in a Sac style.

0.015" difference in pintle tip length.
Click the image to open in full size.

0.010" removed from the stroke-limiting collar.
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:31 PM.
 
Old 06-26-2010, 11:26 AM   #7
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
You can see here how the external sac size does not always directly correspond with the internal volume.
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:38 PM.
 
Old 08-20-2010, 05:41 PM   #8
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
Here are some mie scattering diagrams to give a visual.

8-hole micro-blind sac type.
Click the image to open in full size.

5-hole VCO.
Click the image to open in full size.

5-hole micro-blind sac type.
Click the image to open in full size.

In most cases a VCO nozzle has a greater ignition delay than a micro-blind sac type nozzle. The VCO nozzle often has a cooler flame, greater duration, and greater intensity, whereas the micro-blind nozzle often has a hotter flame, slightly less duration, and less intensity. Flame intensity can also be parlayed into meaning basically the length of the jet, and the ability to penetrate the air density in the combustion chamber.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:42 PM.
 
Old 09-01-2010, 11:49 PM   #9
Smokem
 
Smokem's Avatar

Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,246
Image showing spray jet penetration of different orifice sizes over one millisecond after start of injection.

6x0.002" - 6x0.003" - 6x0.004"
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.

Infinite Performance

Last edited by TMONEYDIESEL; 10-16-2011 at 03:55 PM.
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:32 PM.

 


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2006 - 2017, CompetitionDiesel.com
all information found on this site is property of www.competitiondiesel.com