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Dodge Competition and Performance General Dodge Competition and Performance Discussion |
08-16-2020, 12:44 AM
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#1
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Name: DieselMonster
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Clarkfork, ID
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Posts: 674
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12v Cummins blocks
Looking for information in blocks for building 6-800 hp reliable, I keep getting told that there are 3 blocks, light duty like 1st Gen, 2nd gen blocks and then a tractor block...
The tractor block is what I keep being told I need to get or a failure is likely ???
Anyone got numbers for good blocks?
I'll get some pics of the one I have, it's got fried killed #4 melted it pretty badly.
Sent from my moto e5 supra using Tapatalk
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15.5*,5" straight, DPS X 3pc mainfold, Hx35W stock, 10"AFE cone,265/75/16 E, Royal Purple blood, 12MM ARP's,
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08-16-2020, 08:42 AM
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#2
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
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Posts: 18,832
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The tractor block, or structural block, is not something you'd want for a pickup truck. Maybe you are getting confused between tractor, and the international casting?
To answer your base question. Any block from 89 through 02 will hold the power level you're seeking.
??? Hope that helps you.
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08-17-2020, 06:17 AM
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#3
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Name: bigstacks95
Title: Diesel Doc
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Falls Village, CT
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Posts: 2,030
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Any stock 12v block, crank, rods, pistons, and head will all hold 600-800 hp
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--Dave--
58 Dodge Power Wagon 3.0 Limited Pro Stock diesel pulling truck
2020 Ram 3500 HO/Aisin Laramie/night tow rig
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08-17-2020, 12:25 PM
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#4
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Name: displacedtexan
Title: $500 PREMIUM MEMBER
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Location: Mobilehoma
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Posts: 13,876
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Yep. You just need a stock short block.
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I talk loud.
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08-17-2020, 02:42 PM
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#5
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Name: 06 DIESEL
Title: Dead Eye Firearms LLC
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Location: Airville, PA
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Posts: 5,115
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As everyone else said, that that power level even with at 53 block you should be OK. That being said, beating on them can break anything that is supposed to be reliable.
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Travis
My rig - 2021 Mega 3500 SRW
My Classic - 79 Chevy Silverado
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonA
Trucks are like women. Sometimes you just need to spend money on them to keep them happy.
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08-17-2020, 10:07 PM
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#6
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Name: DieselMonster
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Clarkfork, ID
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So what would be the limits of a stock unmodified 12v block ?
Sent from my moto e5 supra using Tapatalk
__________________
15.5*,5" straight, DPS X 3pc mainfold, Hx35W stock, 10"AFE cone,265/75/16 E, Royal Purple blood, 12MM ARP's,
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08-18-2020, 12:10 AM
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#7
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
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Location: Western Pa.
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Can you expand your definition of what constitutes a block failure?
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08-18-2020, 06:46 AM
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#8
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Name: zachu812
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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Posts: 419
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If you break a stock 12 valve below 800hp there was already something wrong with it or you did something wrong to it.
__________________
1995 RCLB 4x4: H-pump, 5x.012s, HX35
2001 RCLB 4x4: H-pump, 6x.013s, S472/S488
EdzGarage, Matt's Diesel Supply, HTS Transmissions
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08-18-2020, 09:28 AM
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#9
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Name: bigstacks95
Title: Diesel Doc
Status: Not Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snedge
Can you expand your definition of what constitutes a block failure?
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I mean if he doesnt put a tab over the dowel pin it could fail at 160hp. Or less if it has a clogged air filter as well.
__________________
--Dave--
58 Dodge Power Wagon 3.0 Limited Pro Stock diesel pulling truck
2020 Ram 3500 HO/Aisin Laramie/night tow rig
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08-18-2020, 12:13 PM
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#10
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Name: Rich dzl
Title: 12v guru
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Posts: 741
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I have 5 12v engines standard bore at 1100 plus hp .. keeping the bore size Near standard seems to be key ..
Last edited by Rich dzl; 08-18-2020 at 12:17 PM.
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08-18-2020, 01:18 PM
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#11
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
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Posts: 18,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstacks95
I mean if he doesnt put a tab over the dowel pin it could fail at 160hp. Or less if it has a clogged air filter as well.
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Right. Haha.
My point is, block failures are rare even at high power levels. It's hardly ever the blocks fault.
High cylinder pressure will crack cylinders even at lower power levels, and rotating mass breaks main bolts at high RPM.
If we are bound by numbers, I'm pretty sure that the blocks will split around 1500 HP, and stock main bolts say fukk you over 5000 rpm.
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08-18-2020, 01:36 PM
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#12
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Name: Mudn_1
Title: Sweet Home
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Trussville
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Posts: 5,290
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are you asking about the block casting or the stock rotating assembly holding 6-800hp?
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"One Up'N The Competition"
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08-18-2020, 10:39 PM
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#13
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Name: DieselMonster
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Clarkfork, ID
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Posts: 674
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At this point I'm searching for the right information on a build I'd like to do.
Single cab 2wd long box...
Thinking 6-800 should be an absolute blast.
Also you're already answering some of my questions about high RPM.
Another question is at what rpm should I replaced stock rod bolts ?
Will the stock type harmonic balancer hold a 4K rpm engine together or should I use something else ?
At what power level should I consider a main girdle ?
I super appreciate all your input y'all... Much appreciated
Sent from my moto e5 supra using Tapatalk
__________________
15.5*,5" straight, DPS X 3pc mainfold, Hx35W stock, 10"AFE cone,265/75/16 E, Royal Purple blood, 12MM ARP's,
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08-19-2020, 06:42 AM
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#14
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 18,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselMonster
At this point I'm searching for the right information on a build I'd like to do.
Single cab 2wd long box...
Thinking 6-800 should be an absolute blast.
Also you're already answering some of my questions about high RPM.
Another question is at what rpm should I replaced stock rod bolts ?
Will the stock type harmonic balancer hold a 4K rpm engine together or should I use something else ?
At what power level should I consider a main girdle ?
I super appreciate all your input y'all... Much appreciated
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4000 rpm is not an issue. If you're building, use a wide bowl piston, new rod and main bolts, and add the fuel and air needed. Done.
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08-19-2020, 08:29 AM
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#15
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Name: Mudn_1
Title: Sweet Home
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Trussville
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselMonster
At this point I'm searching for the right information on a build I'd like to do.
Single cab 2wd long box...
Thinking 6-800 should be an absolute blast.
Also you're already answering some of my questions about high RPM.
Another question is at what rpm should I replaced stock rod bolts ?
Will the stock type harmonic balancer hold a 4K rpm engine together or should I use something else ?
At what power level should I consider a main girdle ?
I super appreciate all your input y'all... Much appreciated
Sent from my moto e5 supra using Tapatalk
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There is no Specific Point for any of these things. It all comes down to the setup used. Really all stock internals + Fire Rings, Titanium keepers, valve springs and head studs should hold what you are asking without issue... to an extent. A Fluid style damnper is a good Improvement at any point.
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"One Up'N The Competition"
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08-28-2020, 10:37 PM
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#16
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Name: DieselMonster
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Clarkfork, ID
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudn_1
There is no Specific Point for any of these things. It all comes down to the setup used. Really all stock internals + Fire Rings, Titanium keepers, valve springs and head studs should hold what you are asking without issue... to an extent. A Fluid style damnper is a good Improvement at any point.
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Are fire rings necessary? Was thinking o ring cylinder head. ? At what power is one better than the other?
Also I currently have my IP timing at 15.5° I have been wondering if I should bump that and if so what should I expect for power... Already doesn't really light up till 2k 1700 stall converter so it's decent now.
On that note, 887 pump w/3200 springs... 4ks would be great but my concern is simple thing like reliability and some mpg.
Sent from my moto e5 supra using Tapatalk
__________________
15.5*,5" straight, DPS X 3pc mainfold, Hx35W stock, 10"AFE cone,265/75/16 E, Royal Purple blood, 12MM ARP's,
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08-31-2020, 07:18 AM
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#17
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Name: zachu812
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Posts: 419
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Just go for fire rings right out of the gate and you'll never have to touch it again. More timing will generally net more power but depending on the setup it might not be worth what you give up down low. Try a few things and see what you like.
__________________
1995 RCLB 4x4: H-pump, 5x.012s, HX35
2001 RCLB 4x4: H-pump, 6x.013s, S472/S488
EdzGarage, Matt's Diesel Supply, HTS Transmissions
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08-31-2020, 07:40 AM
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#18
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Name: zstroken
Title: For $$$ your name here
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Michigan(by the lake)
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Posts: 23,151
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I had zero issues with an oringed head in a 750ish setup. I know there used to be some concern over the longevity of fire rings in a street application. Most of the concern around the "cast" fire ring cracking over repeated heat cycles.
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2008 4x4 Megacab, 68RFE
97 Dodge gone....
24V P-Pump Mafia member #1(retired)
Thanks to Mumau Diesel, Goerend Transmission, Northeast Diesel Service!
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08-31-2020, 10:42 PM
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#19
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Name: DieselMonster
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Clarkfork, ID
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 674
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Where would I buy fire rings ?
What machining needs to be done ? And or can I do this my self ?
Is there a special head gasket needed to be used with fire rings ?
Sent from my moto e5 supra using Tapatalk
__________________
15.5*,5" straight, DPS X 3pc mainfold, Hx35W stock, 10"AFE cone,265/75/16 E, Royal Purple blood, 12MM ARP's,
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09-01-2020, 05:08 AM
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#20
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 4,396
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Yes fire rings require a modified gasket, they cut out the stock "fire ring" of the head gasket.
I'd recommend just have your head O-ringed and use a stock Cummins gasket.
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