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01-22-2020, 10:46 AM
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#1
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Name: TheSilverBullet
Title: All the correction factor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Franklin,IA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,598
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Valve depth vs compression loss
So I bought an I assembled engine for my 99 recently. All the machine work was already done by a reputable shop. The head looked like the valves were pretty deep so I took it to my local guy thats done a lot of my work over the years.
Sure enough the valves are .0100 depth, factory max is .060. I guess my question is what will this hurt? He says we should plane it some depending on thickness of the head.
Pistons are 286210 non ic bowl
__________________
99 3500 black Laramie~Infinitive Performance Farrel Diesel Service Goerend Transmissions
98 12 valve with all the goodies from 2008
90 w250 "brownie" straight 6 standard transmission
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvst8r
Dying is always a way bigger concern than egt's...
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01-22-2020, 10:59 AM
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#2
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Name: SPEEDSHIFT
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Posts: 5,978
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I would be more worried about valve to piston contact.
__________________
@bodie_armstrong
2003 2500 4x4 auto FOR SALE
2005 2500 4x4 auto Drag Truck
2013 3500 4x4 Aisin Dually Tow Rig
Tenacity Tuning, Longs Machine Shop, BD Diesel Performance
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01-22-2020, 11:15 AM
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#3
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Name: TheSilverBullet
Title: All the correction factor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Franklin,IA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEEDSHIFT
I would be more worried about valve to piston contact.
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Well its got a mile right now so I should be good there.
__________________
99 3500 black Laramie~Infinitive Performance Farrel Diesel Service Goerend Transmissions
98 12 valve with all the goodies from 2008
90 w250 "brownie" straight 6 standard transmission
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvst8r
Dying is always a way bigger concern than egt's...
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01-22-2020, 03:00 PM
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#4
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Name: boominator12
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Posts: 7
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you would be surprised how much that will effect it by some quick math I would say you will be down 1-1.5 points of compression.
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01-22-2020, 08:21 PM
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#5
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Name: mhuggler
Title: One piece at a time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Uno, Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverBullet
So I bought an I assembled engine for my 99 recently. All the machine work was already done by a reputable shop. The head looked like the valves were pretty deep so I took it to my local guy thats done a lot of my work over the years.
Sure enough the valves are .0100 depth, factory max is .060. I guess my question is what will this hurt? He says we should plane it some depending on thickness of the head.
Pistons are 286210 non ic bowl
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As a former engine machinist, I can tell you that I absolutely would NOT run it as-is. It'll run, but like crap. Also, what did they do to maintain valve spring seat pressure?
__________________
2002 2500 4x4 ETH/DEE-F1 Mach 5's/62/65/12/Smarty/ATS Ex.manifold/AFE intake/TST Comp./.020 marine gasket/o-ringed/ARP studs/5"stacks/Airdog 150/Isspro guages/Southbend 3600 DD/3.54 gears/leveling kit/Bilstein 5100frt,5150rr/37" BFG A/T's on 18" Eagle 114's/Borgeson SS/DSS
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01-22-2020, 09:05 PM
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#6
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Name: bracker8040
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 818
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I wouldn’t be comfortable running it as it is.
The question I have when I see something like this is, if they can’t get valve recession right, are they going to be able to other, closer tolerances right?
Their “reputableness” goes downhill very quickly in my book when I see stuff like this.
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01-22-2020, 09:11 PM
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#7
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Name: DISTURBED
Title: YEA WE RIDE THE SHORT BUS
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Winchester, Va
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Posts: 6,417
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The closer you can get the valves to the face of the head the better it will run. So protruding or flush is ideal .100 is going to run like chit and make no power. Compression loss is the least of your worries at this point. Are there relief in the Pistons? Stock cam?
__________________
Thanks, Jeremy
01 CTD Retired sled puller, dedicated "Twin Turbo" tow rig
96 CTD "TOO" Disturbed 3.0 - Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
96 CTD "The Sickness" 2.6/2.8- Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
Last edited by DISTURBED; 01-22-2020 at 09:13 PM.
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01-23-2020, 07:44 AM
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#8
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Name: TheSilverBullet
Title: All the correction factor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Franklin,IA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,598
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Stock cam no relief in the pistons. It’s a street setup, I bought this engine from a guy that was Not assembled and I’m glad because I thought this head looked like the valves were low.
I took it to my local guy that’s just a one man shop and is really good at this stuff. He says not to to run it and put seats in it. Just wanting to hear opinions
__________________
99 3500 black Laramie~Infinitive Performance Farrel Diesel Service Goerend Transmissions
98 12 valve with all the goodies from 2008
90 w250 "brownie" straight 6 standard transmission
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvst8r
Dying is always a way bigger concern than egt's...
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01-23-2020, 09:02 AM
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#9
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Name: Snedge
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 18,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverBullet
I took it to my local guy thats just a one man shop and is really good at this stuff. He says not to to run it and put seats in it. Just wanting to hear opinions
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I agree with the local guy.
Why not make it right while your looking at it?
Not like it's a major dollar amount for a valve job.
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01-23-2020, 09:07 AM
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#10
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Name: DISTURBED
Title: YEA WE RIDE THE SHORT BUS
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Winchester, Va
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 6,417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverBullet
Stock cam no relief in the pistons. It’s a street setup, I bought this engine from a guy that was Not assembled and I’m glad because I thought this head looked like the valves were low.
I took it to my local guy that’s just a one man shop and is really good at this stuff. He says not to to run it and put seats in it. Just wanting to hear opinions
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That's going to be the only way to fix it. You cant mill enough off the head to make it work the way it is. Only other option is to sell it to a kid that wants to blow smoke and not make any power. It would be ideal for that!!
Would it be cheaper to just find a different head an stick on it? Anything special about it that makes it worth spending extra money in to make it right?
__________________
Thanks, Jeremy
01 CTD Retired sled puller, dedicated "Twin Turbo" tow rig
96 CTD "TOO" Disturbed 3.0 - Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
96 CTD "The Sickness" 2.6/2.8- Built by Disturbed Diesel Performance
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01-23-2020, 10:01 AM
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#11
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Name: TheSilverBullet
Title: All the correction factor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Franklin,IA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,598
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I’ve got a pile of cracked stock heads. Local guy called me and said he could safely take 30 thousand off the deck...still pretty low. I’m not stuck on this head but I figured it was my best bet.
My local guy I’ve taken 4 other heads and they’ve had cracks. I’m kinda running out of options, I don’t want a Chinese aftermarket castings.
__________________
99 3500 black Laramie~Infinitive Performance Farrel Diesel Service Goerend Transmissions
98 12 valve with all the goodies from 2008
90 w250 "brownie" straight 6 standard transmission
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvst8r
Dying is always a way bigger concern than egt's...
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01-23-2020, 11:54 AM
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#12
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Name: bracker8040
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverBullet
I’ve got a pile of cracked stock heads. Local guy called me and said he could safely take 30 thousand off the deck...still pretty low. I’m not stuck on this head but I figured it was my best bet.
My local guy I’ve taken 4 other heads and they’ve had cracks. I’m kinda running out of options, I don’t want a Chinese aftermarket castings.
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I’d have less qualms about running a Chinese head with correct valve geometry than that head as it is, or even milled 0.030”.
If you’re dead set against a Chinese head I’d say your stuck with putting seats, and possibly valves, in what you have.
Last edited by bracker8040; 01-23-2020 at 11:55 AM.
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01-23-2020, 03:14 PM
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#13
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Name: Rich dzl
Title: 12v guru
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2011
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 741
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I have had good luck with Chinese castings .. I have ran 5-6 above 1000 hp with no issues ..most new Cummins heads are made in dcec plant in China
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01-24-2020, 03:27 AM
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#14
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Name: mhuggler
Title: One piece at a time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Uno, Pa.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich dzl
I have had good luck with Chinese castings .. I have ran 5-6 above 1000 hp with no issues ..most new Cummins heads are made in dcec plant in China
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Yup. I just got some pushrods for an old NH220 and they're made in India.
__________________
2002 2500 4x4 ETH/DEE-F1 Mach 5's/62/65/12/Smarty/ATS Ex.manifold/AFE intake/TST Comp./.020 marine gasket/o-ringed/ARP studs/5"stacks/Airdog 150/Isspro guages/Southbend 3600 DD/3.54 gears/leveling kit/Bilstein 5100frt,5150rr/37" BFG A/T's on 18" Eagle 114's/Borgeson SS/DSS
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02-03-2020, 08:30 AM
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#15
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Name: Destroked 450
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Harned,Ky.
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 340
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At .100 down either the seats are shot or they ground the valves to thin or both, no way I'd run a head like that.
Spec is min .039 and max .060, cutting .030 off the head still leaves it .010 to low.
Pull to valves and check rim thickness, should be .031 min, if the valves are ok the seats need replaced.
Fix the head or replace it.
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Hers:2018 F-150 sc 4x4 5.0
Farm trucks: 01 Z71 ext cab, 95 S10, 93 F-800 8.3 Cummins, 87 AM General 5 ton
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02-03-2020, 02:28 PM
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#16
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Name: BluegrassDiesel
Title: UK2K!
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: KENTUCKY
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,136
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Personally wouldn't run it. Also keep in mind that the more you take off the head, the more the injector protrudes into the cylinder. Depending on the injector/piston combo, I've seen some hit the center of the piston
__________________
Josh Land
Bluegrass Diesel Performance
Lancaster, Ky
SHOP ONLINE @ http://WWW.SHOPBLUEGRASS.COM
97 DodgePPL Limited Pro Stock "The Crippler"
09 3500 GMC CCDually
05 Silverado SS
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02-04-2020, 07:52 AM
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#17
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Name: TheSilverBullet
Title: All the correction factor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Franklin,IA
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,598
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We’re putting seats in. I bought this head 2nd hand but it was fresh out of Waglers machine shop this way.....
__________________
99 3500 black Laramie~Infinitive Performance Farrel Diesel Service Goerend Transmissions
98 12 valve with all the goodies from 2008
90 w250 "brownie" straight 6 standard transmission
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvst8r
Dying is always a way bigger concern than egt's...
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02-04-2020, 07:58 AM
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#18
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Name: 9724VF350
Title: Tractor Guy
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverBullet
it was fresh out of Waglers machine shop this way.....
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That explains a lot.
I've taken .080 off a stock 12V head to get valve protrusion with no problems so far.
Thicker injector washers exist.
__________________
97 F350 4X4 CC Dually 5spd 24V 913 S300/HT3B Ranch Hand.
Playtoy-Oliver 1655. 12V now , 13mm, S475
Wife's ride-03 Excursion 12V swap in the works.
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