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12-26-2019, 03:08 PM
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#1
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Name: 56cummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2014
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 736
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96mm vs 102mm s400 turbine
Forced Induction and VS Racing offer the gt50 turbine s400. Has anybody done a back to back test in a compound setup?
How do the thrust bearings compare between a gt50 vs s400? Would one be better off to get a gt5018 or s488/102?
__________________
95 cummins
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12-26-2019, 03:21 PM
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#2
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status:
Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,412
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I've heard they use a china turbine wheel from a couple people that know. It caught my attention also, I'm limited by my 96 turbine.
Next move would be go to a gt55, and big money.
Anyway was warned about it on a diesel app. I'm not knocking the F1 company at all.
But have any of the 102 turbines been ran on a diesel?
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12-26-2019, 04:46 PM
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#3
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Name: ikeG
Title: Oughta Know Better
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Posts: 722
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We have ran 4 different gt50 based Precision turbos without one problem. From 1160 to 15xx fwhp. I have been told by a reliable source that precision uses a chinese gt50 tw. I think it's an awesome middle ground wheel. We ran and tested it in the 1.08 and 1.39 AR housing.
How it performs stuffed into an s400 ex housing I dont know.....
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12-26-2019, 05:14 PM
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#4
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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The GT50 turbine is 91/99mm.
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12-26-2019, 05:26 PM
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#5
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Name: ikeG
Title: Oughta Know Better
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
The GT50 turbine is 91/99mm.
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Ah, that's right. So what turbine are they putting into the 400's?
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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12-26-2019, 05:40 PM
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#6
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Name: 56cummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Posts: 736
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VSR Next Gen 88mm Slip-Fit T6 VSRacing
I bet they would get in **** if they straight copied it. Its in the listing as "gt50".
__________________
95 cummins
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12-26-2019, 05:55 PM
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#7
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Name: jasonc
Title: Too Much Time
Status:
Here
Join Date: Nov 2009
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 4,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikeG
We have ran 4 different gt50 based Precision turbos without one problem. From 1160 to 15xx fwhp. I have been told by a reliable source that precision uses a chinese gt50 tw. I think it's an awesome middle ground wheel. We ran and tested it in the 1.08 and 1.39 AR housing.
How it performs stuffed into an s400 ex housing I dont know.....
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What compressor wheel are y'all running?
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12-26-2019, 06:06 PM
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#8
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Name: ikeG
Title: Oughta Know Better
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2011
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc
What compressor wheel are y'all running?
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All singles btw. Two clipped versions, 2.6 mwe, and a 3.0 smooth. Also ran a 76mm version for 3.0 smooth. Then ran a PT8891 that engine dynod over 1500 on one pass. Later dialed that tune in via data logging on the track, so I'm sure it was more later on.
Like I stated, the gt50 platform that precision uses treated us extremely well. I know the bigger names in pulling used it for a short time too, but have moved up to the 55 line.
In my opinion, but admittedly little experience with compounds, the gt50 has to be a nice upgrade over the 96bw stuff without going crazy big(gt55 or hx82). So I'd be very tempted to try one of the 400s they are putting the similar tw in.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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12-26-2019, 08:58 PM
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#9
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Name: Poulina
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Norcal
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 795
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Genuine borg 96 is tried and true, whatever fi is stuffing into a borg cartridge “102” is most certainly and aftermarket turbine wheel. Not bashing at all I personally use Jose’s products, just fyi
__________________
2008 QCLB 6.8 48re Suncoast PCS, DDP supermentals, forcedinductions 467/87, Hamilton 188/220, Carrillos, studded mains w/stock girdle
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12-26-2019, 10:23 PM
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#10
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Name: RacinDuallie
Title: Black Sheep Racing
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Supporting Northeast Diesel Racing
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 17,369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmega3500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmega3500
Double
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmega3500
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I have never seen nut hugging on the level you are at.
Wipe your chin.
__________________
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01-02-2020, 02:17 PM
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#11
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Name: Leiffi
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2013
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56cummins
Forced Induction and VS Racing offer the gt50 turbine s400. Has anybody done a back to back test in a compound setup?
How do the thrust bearings compare between a gt50 vs s400? Would one be better off to get a gt5018 or s488/102?
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Garrett thrust bearing is crap.
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02-06-2020, 02:46 PM
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#12
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Name: ramthiscummins
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada EH!
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 589
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What about the 93x85 or the 103x95?
__________________
2003 QCSB cummins, DDP 12mm CP3, DDP SM 150% overs, a turbo, Firepunk diesel 48re
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02-06-2020, 09:52 PM
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#13
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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As long as the turbine creates enough shaft power to run the compressor the affect the design difference has on power is minimal. Certain turbine designs will run much more compressor for their given size compared to others, however this is typically only important in cases where there is a turbine size limit.
Below you can see a graph comparing drive pressure for several turbine wheel/housing combinations, these are only a few examples from that test which included over 15 combinations in total. Across the board with the same compressor inducer size the overall power differential between any two turbine configurations was less than 4% in total.
DPC.jpg
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02-06-2020, 10:14 PM
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#14
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Name: impactblack
Title: Rookie
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2019
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3
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I think FI offers their gen 2 turbine wheels in different sizes now. Looked pretty promising from feedbacks and dynos i have seen posted.
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02-07-2020, 06:35 AM
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#15
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Name: bigstacks95
Title: Diesel Doc
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Falls Village, CT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
As long as the turbine creates enough shaft power to run the compressor the affect the design difference has on power is minimal. Certain turbine designs will run much more compressor for their given size compared to others, however this is typically only important in cases where there is a turbine size limit.
Below you can see a graph comparing drive pressure for several turbine wheel/housing combinations, these are only a few examples from that test which included over 15 combinations in total. Across the board with the same compressor inducer size the overall power differential between any two turbine configurations was less than 4% in total.
Attachment 73901
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Holy crap that HX60 is a rockstar huh?
__________________
--Dave--
58 Dodge Power Wagon 3.0 Limited Pro Stock diesel pulling truck
2020 Ram 3500 HO/Aisin Laramie/night tow rig
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02-07-2020, 08:12 AM
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#16
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Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status:
Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 3,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
As long as the turbine creates enough shaft power to run the compressor the affect the design difference has on power is minimal. Certain turbine designs will run much more compressor for their given size compared to others, however this is typically only important in cases where there is a turbine size limit.
Below you can see a graph comparing drive pressure for several turbine wheel/housing combinations, these are only a few examples from that test which included over 15 combinations in total. Across the board with the same compressor inducer size the overall power differential between any two turbine configurations was less than 4% in total.
Attachment 73901
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97/92mm hx60, or one of the smaller ones?
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02-07-2020, 08:45 AM
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#17
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Name: zfaylor
Title: Comp Diesel Sponsor
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: P-TOWN!, Indiana
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstacks95
Holy crap that HX60 is a rockstar huh?
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Yes, and far too overlooked in the performance world outside of pulling. Holsets scare people because you can't pull up a performance catalog and pick what you want.
__________________
2015 half ton heavy chevy
81 Fairmont LS project
Many yard ornament projects...
North American Turbo
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02-07-2020, 11:43 AM
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#18
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstacks95
Holy crap that HX60 is a rockstar huh?
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Personally I'm not a big fan of the HX60, but you cannot deny they are hard to beat in the drive pressure vs boost category. Be aware that even though it had the lowest drive, it did not make the most power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT
97/92mm hx60, or one of the smaller ones?
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Yes it was the 3.6" turbine.
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02-07-2020, 11:57 AM
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#19
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Name: bigstacks95
Title: Diesel Doc
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Falls Village, CT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
Personally I'm not a big fan of the HX60, but you cannot deny they are hard to beat in the drive pressure vs boost category. Be aware that even though it had the lowest drive, it did not make the most power.
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What outperforms it if I may ask?
__________________
--Dave--
58 Dodge Power Wagon 3.0 Limited Pro Stock diesel pulling truck
2020 Ram 3500 HO/Aisin Laramie/night tow rig
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02-07-2020, 02:17 PM
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#20
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstacks95
What outperforms it if I may ask?
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In this particular instance, the GT50 in a smaller housing than shown. Generally speaking the GT50, S400, and HX60 are all close in power production in most cases.
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