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02-07-2020, 02:27 PM
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#21
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Name: bigstacks95
Title: Diesel Doc
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Falls Village, CT
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Posts: 2,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
In this particular instance, the GT50 in a smaller housing than shown. Generally speaking the GT50, S400, and HX60 are all close in power production in most cases.
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Kinda makes you wonder why some people spend $5k on an HX60 when $2500-$3000 on a S400 does close to the same job
__________________
--Dave--
58 Dodge Power Wagon 3.0 Limited Pro Stock diesel pulling truck
2020 Ram 3500 HO/Aisin Laramie/night tow rig
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02-07-2020, 06:42 PM
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#22
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Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
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Posts: 3,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstacks95
Kinda makes you wonder why some people spend $5k on an HX60 when $2500-$3000 on a S400 does close to the same job
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Why would you spend that on a Hx60?
Go buy a box HX60 for $11-1300 and have a compressor wheel put in it of your choice.
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02-07-2020, 06:50 PM
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#23
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Name: bigstacks95
Title: Diesel Doc
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Falls Village, CT
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Posts: 2,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT
Why would you spend that on a Hx60?
Go buy a box HX60 for $11-1300 and have a compressor wheel put in it of your choice.
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Im talking about in the pulling world. Call around for a price on a 3.0 smooth inlet charger and let me know what you come up with!
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
__________________
--Dave--
58 Dodge Power Wagon 3.0 Limited Pro Stock diesel pulling truck
2020 Ram 3500 HO/Aisin Laramie/night tow rig
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02-07-2020, 08:49 PM
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#24
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Name: SmokinCAT
Title: Cheap and Easy.
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Oh
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Posts: 3,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstacks95
Im talking about in the pulling world. Call around for a price on a 3.0 smooth inlet charger and let me know what you come up with!
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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That’s cause pullers are dumb when it comes to latest and greatest, when all that really changes is the cover and compressor wheel.
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02-07-2020, 09:06 PM
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#25
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Name: bigstacks95
Title: Diesel Doc
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Falls Village, CT
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Posts: 2,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT
That’s cause pullers are dumb when it comes to latest and greatest, when all that really changes is the cover and compressor wheel.
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I've never been the guy who absolutely has to have the latest and greatest, but I can see situations where people want the latest and greatest. If you're in a super competitive league with horsepower tracks, you're going to want every last single HP you can get. I agree, the pullers buying 3 different chargers every spring, dynoing them, then selling 2 of them is probably a silly idea.
A lot of it really does seem like a money grab, For example, back in the 2.6 class the HX60 was the hot ticket, then next was the GT40 or something when we went to 3.0 smooth. I remember asking turbo builders "why can't I just put a 3.0 cover on my HX60?" Well the drive pressuere, turbine, blah blah blah, not suited for the 3.0 aplication. So everyone bought a new turbo and sold the 2.6 chargers for pennies or turned them into paperweights. Fast forward a couple years here we are running the HX60's, GT55's, even S400's that we were running back then, but everyone had to buy new ones.
But us pullers keep falling for it so what the hell? Exploit it while the business is there!
__________________
--Dave--
58 Dodge Power Wagon 3.0 Limited Pro Stock diesel pulling truck
2020 Ram 3500 HO/Aisin Laramie/night tow rig
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02-07-2020, 09:09 PM
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#26
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Name: jfaulkner
Title: Douche Hunter
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
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Posts: 5,864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT
That’s cause pullers are dumb when it comes to latest and greatest, when all that really changes is the cover and compressor wheel.
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Not entirely true, like most turbo shops they probably took the the OEM tag off and rivet a “Kustom” one on to justify the price.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by StainlessRRA
Flipping your mirrors up when you don't tow? That serves no purpose other than to let me know that you are a douche, from a distance.
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02-08-2020, 03:25 AM
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#27
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Name: Leiffi
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
In this particular instance, the GT50 in a smaller housing than shown. Generally speaking the GT50, S400, and HX60 are all close in power production in most cases.
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Was there HX60 with the smaller housing ?
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02-08-2020, 11:32 AM
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#28
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
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Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiffi
Was there HX60 with the smaller housing ?
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Yes.
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02-08-2020, 12:09 PM
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#29
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
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Posts: 5,565
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Again very different turbine designs yet similar results.
DPC2.jpg
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02-08-2020, 03:59 PM
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#30
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Name: Leiffi
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
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Was boost always same, or fueling, or how the comparison was done ? Similar compressor wheel or only same inducer size ?
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02-09-2020, 09:23 AM
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#31
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiffi
Was boost always same, or fueling, or how the comparison was done ? Similar compressor wheel or only same inducer size ?
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Boost comparison below, all compressors were similar design using the same inducer size, the GT50 and HX60 were the same design. Testing is done in a climate controlled surrounding on a negative sweep, no changes in fuel setting or timing advance, we look at both observed and corrected data and power between the three was within 3% overall.
BPC.jpg
Last edited by Smokem; 02-09-2020 at 09:24 AM.
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02-09-2020, 11:46 AM
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#32
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Name: Leiffi
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2013
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
Boost comparison below, all compressors were similar design using the same inducer size, the GT50 and HX60 were the same design. Testing is done in a climate controlled surrounding on a negative sweep, no changes in fuel setting or timing advance, we look at both observed and corrected data and power between the three was within 3% overall.
Attachment 73907
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boost/emp ratio between GT50 and HX60 is about the same, slightly better for GT50. At 4200 rpm. Did Holset make more power at lower rpm ?
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02-09-2020, 11:50 AM
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#33
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiffi
boost/emp ratio between GT50 and HX60 is about the same, slightly better for GT50. At 4200 rpm. Did Holset make more power at lower rpm ?
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No. And in this particular instance I will not be surprised if in the end the S400 isn't the best option.
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02-09-2020, 12:13 PM
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#34
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Name: allan5oh
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Posts: 1,106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
Personally I'm not a big fan of the HX60, but you cannot deny they are hard to beat in the drive pressure vs boost category. Be aware that even though it had the lowest drive, it did not make the most power.
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Why am I not surprised?
__________________
All of your BSFCs are belong to me
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02-09-2020, 01:04 PM
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#35
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Name: Leiffi
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
No. And in this particular instance I will not be surprised if in the end the S400 isn't the best option.
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Is that some limited turbo class pulling engine ? Pressures are not very high and boost/emp ratio quite bad.
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02-09-2020, 11:57 PM
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#36
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Name: allan5oh
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Posts: 1,106
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Just heard a rumor that FI is coming out with a turbine that fits the 88/96 dimensions but is way lighter and flows more.
__________________
All of your BSFCs are belong to me
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02-10-2020, 01:48 PM
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#37
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Name: bigstacks95
Title: Diesel Doc
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Falls Village, CT
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 2,030
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As usual, CompD for the win! Some great info in this thread
__________________
--Dave--
58 Dodge Power Wagon 3.0 Limited Pro Stock diesel pulling truck
2020 Ram 3500 HO/Aisin Laramie/night tow rig
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02-11-2020, 12:30 AM
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#38
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Major vertical grid lines are 10hp.
THC.jpg
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02-11-2020, 01:32 AM
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#39
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Name: Leiffi
Title: Too Much Time
Status: Not Here
Join Date: Jan 2013
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokem
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It would be different if there was enough fuel to max them out. Or maybe compressor was maxed out so bigger turbine side does not help. But still these kind of tests are interesting.
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02-11-2020, 11:57 AM
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#40
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Name: Smokem
Title: Turbler
Status: Not Here
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa
Member`s Gallery
Posts: 5,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiffi
It would be different if there was enough fuel to max them out. Or maybe compressor was maxed out so bigger turbine side does not help. But still these kind of tests are interesting.
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Fuel quantity/rate certainly was not an issue. The point being as long as the turbine has sufficient power to run the compressor, altering the turbine flow by going to a different turbine housing had less than a 1% impact on power.
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